New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[crusader1612]

Since we talkin LODO what do guys think about oxidation from starter wort? I usually make 1.5L starter the day before brewing, no stirplate just shaking a few times here and there, I pitch 1L in beer and save .5L for next starter. This is for 3.5 gallons.

Clutching at straws there mate.
Most likely oxidation cause is poor transfer.

 

[milldoggy]

Sound pretty good from a procedural point of view, but yes, naturally carbing is the way to go (just take samples until you are about 3-4 points away from expected final gravity, rack to a keg and leave it sealed (no airlock). You really don't even need a spunding valve, as long as you don't leave too much more sugar than 3-4 points left.
For my current on tap NEIPA, I used the ClearBeer Draft system for the first time and I have to say I will never make one without it again.

If you're not familiar, it's basically a floating dip tube, so you aren't sucking up the yeast and hops residue from the bottom of the keg. Amazing! Especially if you keg dryhop.

Would love to, but kids, work, etc. Never can time it right. Think I might get a 100ml syringe and inject priming sugar through the prv.

 

[jakturner]

That shouldn't be an issue, because assuming the yeast are active in the starter, they are going to have consumed the oxygen in the starter wort by the time you pitch it, so there should be little to no DO in the starter juice.
Experiments have shown that active yeast can effectively eliminate DO in a matter of hours.

Thanks for the info. I figured it wasn’t a big deal, just wanted see what the LODO folks stance on it was. I personally have never had problems with oxidation on these beers. But I also started doing closed transfers from day one and switched to fermenting in keg and spunding to naturally carbonate soon after. I’m always looking to cut out oxidation where ever I can tho. I don’t like cold crash London III because I use the same yeast for multiple brews and I feel like over time I could be selecting the more flocculant cells, which of course we don’t want in this kind of beer!

 

[ryanm8]

Alright guys...I posted a pic a month ago of a batch I made. I bottle, purge with CO2, and am as careful as possible with my bottling setup. I just poured a glass from the same batch I made in my previous post. These were carbonated in PET plastic bottles.

Here is the fresh batch (4 days in bottle and was carbonated):

Here is the same batch 1 month later (so, almost 5 weeks in bottle total):

Looks basically identical to me. Flavor has fallen off though, but not any more than the local brewery NEIPA's do.

 

[KrunkMasterKyle]

I just realized I messed up when I ordered my yeast from MoreBeer. I got London Ale 1318 (favorite), and then WLP002 instead of WLP001 (doh) like I wanted.

Has anyone brewed a NEIPA with WLP002? If not I will report back in 2 weeks and let you guys know how it turned out.

 

[stickyfinger]

I just realized I messed up when I ordered my yeast from MoreBeer. I got London Ale 1318 (favorite), and then WLP002 instead of WLP001 (doh) like I wanted.

Has anyone brewed a NEIPA with WLP002? If not I will report back in 2 weeks and let you guys know how it turned out.

wlp002 makes a good neipa. it will clear up a lot faster than 1318 and leave a little higher gravity. people say it can mute hop character, but i’m not sure about that.

 

[KrunkMasterKyle]

wlp002 makes a good neipa. it will clear up a lot faster than 1318 and leave a little higher gravity. people say it can mute hop character, but i’m not sure about that.

Thanks for the reply! What temp do you ferment this yeast at?

I've been doing 64 (ambient) for 3 days then ramping to 69 over a week for 1318. Looks like the recommended fermentation temps are a bit lower for this yeast.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I've used 1318, WLP 007, and WLP 001 (I know, not a "classic" NEIPA yeast, but it makes good IPAs, so why not?).
I like my NEIPAs with a little more attenuation, since my standard recipe is actually a DIPA averaging 8% ABV. With that much malt, it can get sweet if you don't have a good attenuating yeast. WLP 002 would probably leave a big NEIPA a little sweet for my taste (but maybe not for yours), but might work fine on something 1.065 or less.

My favorite has been a toss-up between 007 and 1318.
I've never tried Conan because I've heard it can be finicky, and because I try to emulate Treehouse's style and they don't use Conan (though it has been speculated that they use a yeast blend that includes Conan).

 

[KrunkMasterKyle]

I try to emulate Treehouse's style and they don't use Conan (though it has been speculated that they use a yeast blend that includes Conan).

Thanks for the info! The beer I'm thinking about brewing is starting a little high -1.077 so I might adjust to get it lower. As far as tree house yeast, I thought they were using blends of dry yeast in most of their beers. Check out this blog on a Julius clone https://trinitybrewers.com/brews/ipa/julius-clone-treehouse-brewing-ipa/

 

[stickyfinger]

Thanks for the reply! What temp do you ferment this yeast at?

I've been doing 64 (ambient) for 3 days then ramping to 69 over a week for 1318. Looks like the recommended fermentation temps are a bit lower for this yeast.

I haven't done a lot of trials with temperature. I've gotten good results starting at 65F and slowly ramping to 72F. I've also started it at 68F. If I were to do it today, I think I'd just start it at like 67F and hold until the krausen is falling and then ramp up slowly to 72F. WLP002 has a very violent, hot, fast fermentation that can get out of control super fast, so make sure you are cooling it. I made one that had a 1.075 gravity, and I liked it. The massive dry hopping masks some of the perception of sweetness that you can get with WLP002 in a non-hoppy beer.

 

[KrunkMasterKyle]

I haven't done a lot of trials with temperature. I've gotten good results starting at 65F and slowly ramping to 72F. I've also started it at 68F. If I were to do it today, I think I'd just start it at like 67F and hold until the krausen is falling and then ramp up slowly to 72F. WLP002 has a very violent, hot, fast fermentation that can get out of control super fast, so make sure you are cooling it. I made one that had a 1.075 gravity, and I liked it. The massive dry hopping masks some of the perception of sweetness that you can get with WLP002 in a non-hoppy beer.

Okay I will keep my same temp schedule since it seems to work well. I ferment under pressure as well with a spunding valve. What was the FG of that 1.075 beer? I don't want it to be overly sweet since I will be using lactose in my recipe post boil. Thinking I can cut down my grains a bit and use sugar to make up the difference to achieve a lower OG but still the same ABV.

 

[stickyfinger]

Okay I will keep my same temp schedule since it seems to work well. I ferment under pressure as well with a spunding valve. What was the FG of that 1.075 beer? I don't want it to be overly sweet since I will be using lactose in my recipe post boil. Thinking I can cut down my grains a bit and use sugar to make up the difference to achieve a lower OG but still the same ABV.

I would expect 70-75% attenuation for a 155F mash temp with a typical NEIPA grist. I don't find that the resulting beers taste sweet though, just a little fuller/richer than if you used a dryer yeast. i suppose it becomes personal preference at some point.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

My favorite has been a toss-up between 007 and 1318.
I've never tried Conan because I've heard it can be finicky, and because I try to emulate Treehouse's style and they don't use Conan (though it has been speculated that they use a yeast blend that includes Conan).

The DNA evidence is pretty strong against them using Conan - at least in Julius as of a year ago. As per that thread, it looks like Treehouse are probably using a mixture of S-04, T-58 and some kind of hefe/kolsch yeast. However, the DNA evidence also suggests Conan is close to Fuller's (WLP002/1968) which in turn is a cousin of Whitbread B (WLP007/1098/S-04).

 

[Cavpilot2000]

The DNA evidence is pretty strong against them using Conan - at least in Julius as of a year ago. As per that thread, it looks like Treehouse are probably using a mixture of S-04, T-58 and some kind of hefe/kolsch yeast. However, the DNA evidence also suggests Conan is close to Fuller's (WLP002/1968) which in turn is a cousin of Whitbread B (WLP007/1098/S-04).

That's one seriously incestuous family tree!
Those naughty yeast...

 

[marjen]

After a 3 month hiatus I brewed today! Glad to be back in action. Brewed a BIAB NE IPA with Ekuanot and Mosaic. Will be my first batch with complete temp control figuring it should have a positive effect on the outcomes. Also believe I have identified why I had some issues with my last couple batches and have rectified those issues. Looking forward to the outcome.

 

[GnenieGone]

Been over a week now. This is the bottled version. In a nut shell, very drinkable! Kinda morphed in the last few days or maybe settled is a better term. Needless to say, excited! My nemesis maybe conquered..

 

[braindead]

Ive brewed this several times and love it
I have a fresh vial of Vermont or several mason jars of washed 1318.
Ive never made a starter from washed yeast and dont want to eff it up. Theres seems a Layer of hop sludge under the yeast layer, would this be a problem
I just like the 1318 yeast for neipas
What u guys think?

 

[anteater8]

After a 3 month hiatus I brewed today! Glad to be back in action. Brewed a BIAB NE IPA with Ekuanot and Mosaic. Will be my first batch with complete temp control figuring it should have a positive effect on the outcomes. Also believe I have identified why I had some issues with my last couple batches and have rectified those issues. Looking forward to the outcome.

Loooove this hop combo.

 

[schematix]

Since we talkin LODO what do guys think about oxidation from starter wort? I usually make 1.5L starter the day before brewing, no stirplate just shaking a few times here and there, I pitch 1L in beer and save .5L for next starter. This is for 3.5 gallons.

As cav said, shouldn't be an issue. if you pitch a considerable amount of that wort you will be introducting oxidized wort flavors, but it won't go on to oxidize the rest of the batch.

Better starter practice is to make your starter about a 3-7 days before, let it ride for a day, then crash it a couple days and decant as much of the liquid as you can.

An even better practice is then to take ~500mL of your mash wort from mash out, give it a quick boil and chill to fermentation temps, and pitch your slurry to it. It should be rockin and rollin a couple hours before the main batch is ready to be pitched. You'll see short lag times like you've never seen before.

 

[marjen]

I am currently fermenting for the first time with my tilt hydrometer. I pitched 1318 about 39 hours ago. FG was 1.057 it’s already at 1.020. Will most likely add my dry hops this afternoon.

 

[pearljam1984]

I did a 12gallon split batch on Friday. Both bittered slightly with CTZ. One batch has Ella and El Dorado. The other has El Dorado, Eureka, Azacca. 1318 on both. 13oz of dry hops in both.

Had never used Ella in the NEIPA, so should be interesting.

Notched up fermentation to 70 this time to see if any changes are noticeable. TBD

 

[Sbe2]

Anyone use a hop randall to “filter” the beer from the primary to keg?

 

[Braufessor]

Ive brewed this several times and love it
I have a fresh vial of Vermont or several mason jars of washed 1318.
Ive never made a starter from washed yeast and dont want to eff it up. Theres seems a Layer of hop sludge under the yeast layer, would this be a problem
I just like the 1318 yeast for neipas
What u guys think?

Should be fine...... One thing you can do is to pour off 70-80% of the liquid on top, swirl it up gently..... a lot of that hop material and gunk on the bottom might not even quite make it up into solution. When you pour off into starter, see if that bottom layer doesn't just stay behind. whatever stays clumped up on the bottom - just leave it. (If not, I would not worry about it either.)

As I have mentioned before, that is one of the reasons I use a blonde ale (or other low hop, no dry hop type beers) for propagating yeast for future batches of beer.

Or, as others do, they make a bigger starter than they need and repitch some of it into new starters.

 

[Braufessor]

Anyone use a hop randall to “filter” the beer from the primary to keg?

I think some people have employed various filtering techniques. The big thing with a randall is you would have to by hyper-obsessed about eliminating oxygen from that process. If oxygen gets introduce in your attempt, you would be far worse off than transferring some "gunk" to the keg.

 

[rappinduke]

I did a 12gallon split batch on Friday. Both bittered slightly with CTZ. One batch has Ella and El Dorado. The other has El Dorado, Eureka, Azacca. 1318 on both. 13oz of dry hops in both.

Had never used Ella in the NEIPA, so should be interesting.

Notched up fermentation to 70 this time to see if any changes are noticeable. TBD

Currently have Citra/Ella/El Dorado on tap. Tasting nice. Would def use Ella again.

 

[stickyfinger]

i screwed up and creates an over-hopped astringency bomb. do these taste better over time as the hops die back and the yeast and hops settle out more, or is it a dumper?

 

[Braufessor]

i screwed up and creates an over-hopped astringency bomb. do these taste better over time as the hops die back and the yeast and hops settle out more, or is it a dumper?

I would hang on to it and see if some time mellows it...... no point in dumping it right away - you never know. I would just leave it cold and try it at 1 week and 2 weeks and see what happens. At 2-3 weeks, you could try some gelatin if it is still not what you want - that will strip some yeast and other particles out.

Another option - if you have something on tap like a blonde ale or the like - blend it 50/50 in the glass and see what you think. Or, go out and buy a 6 pack of some kind of light, low hopped ale and blend it in glass to see if cutting it in half makes it a decent pale ale.

 

[VT_jlee]

I think some people have employed various filtering techniques.

My preferred method of 'filtering' is to slip a hop bag from wilserbrewer over then end of my racking cane and secure it with a zip tie. I started doing this after several frustrating clogs during closed transfers (even after cold crashing) and it's been a big improvement.

 

[Sbe2]

I think some people have employed various filtering techniques. The big thing with a randall is you would have to by hyper-obsessed about eliminating oxygen from that process. If oxygen gets introduce in your attempt, you would be far worse off than transferring some "gunk" to the keg.

I am thinking of racking with a few pts left and thought using a Randall as a filter would at least add some flavor as well. I am trying to figure out how I can transfer without adding to much o2. Idk my mind is just wondering, just trying to get more pop on my NEIPAs

 

[Desertbrewer]

i screwed up and creates an over-hopped astringency bomb. do these taste better over time as the hops die back and the yeast and hops settle out more, or is it a dumper?

I did too; here’s my recipe but I think the extra keg hops really pushed the astringency. its about 3 weeks in the keg and the astringency is fading a lot, to the point where my father who hates IPA’s tasted it and his eyes lit up with how much he enjoyed it. Definitely mellowing out, should’ve taken Brau’s advice and not keg hopped. Weird though cause I’ve done keg hopping before without that result.


13 lb 2 row
2 lb oats

5.5 gallon RO
15 g cacl
7 g gypsum

Mash @ 148
Sparge 170 for 10 mins w/ 2 gallons

FwH .6 oz chinook
Flameout 2 oz mosaic 2 oz citra 2 oz chinook 1 oz el dorado

2 satchels of S-04 rehydrated fermented at 68 F

OG -1.068
FG- 1.010
Abv - 7.5%

Dry hop
3 oz mosaic 3 oz citra on day 2 ferm high krausen.

Keg hop 1 oz mosaic 1 oz citra

Tastes great, S-04 really is a good yeast for this style; I’ve tried most of the imperial NEIPA yeasts and Conan and S-04 holds its own as a more “straightforward” ester profile but contributing fruitiness. Dank pineapple, papaya, orange, with a touch of that dank earthiness Mosaic gives.

 

[stickyfinger]

I did too; here’s my recipe but I think the extra keg hops really pushed the astringency. its about 3 weeks in the keg and the astringency is fading a lot, to the point where my father who hates IPA’s tasted it and his eyes lit up with how much he enjoyed it. Definitely mellowing out, should’ve taken Brau’s advice and not keg hopped. Weird though cause I’ve done keg hopping before without that result.

cool. i'll let her rest and see what happens. i'm going to stick with 6 oz in primary from now on!

 

[anteater8]

cool. i'll let her rest and see what happens. i'm going to stick with 6 oz in primary from now on!

Mine tend to taste their best after 2 weeks in the keg. I'm always amazed that the one beer can change so much after a little more time. When I did 100% Azacca, it tasted like chocolate and gasoline after 1 week, and beautiful strawberries and pineapple after 2.

 

[dg2001]

I have over a pound of Azacca and about a pound of El Dorado from last year that I would like to use in my upcoming NEIPA. I also have plenty Citra, Mosaic, Vic Secret, CTZ, Loral, and Galaxy to pair with. Any suggestions?

 

[mlafnitzegger]

Northeast Wheat Ale (light one, whirlpool\dry\keg hopped with columbus, citra, and galaxy) and NEIPA (Darker one, whirlpool\dry\keg hopped with columbus and el dorado).

 

[mlafnitzegger]

I have over a pound of Azacca and about a pound of El Dorado from last year that I would like to use in my upcoming NEIPA. I also have plenty Citra, Mosaic, Vic Secret, Loral, and Galaxy to pair with. Any suggestions?

Citra \ Vic Secret \ Mosiac. Awesome combo.

 

[TimmyWit]

I have over a pound of Azacca and about a pound of El Dorado from last year that I would like to use in my upcoming NEIPA. I also have plenty Citra, Mosaic, Vic Secret, Loral, and Galaxy to pair with. Any suggestions?

I did a WCIPA with Azacca, Equinot and Vic Secret. The aroma was incredible; super tropical but almost to the point of being one-dimensional and while I was happy with it, I think the flavor could be improved with some Citra and it would also add some complexity to the aroma. I haven't used El Dorado but it looks like another tropical one. I think you'd be good with Citra, Azacca, El Dorado and either Vic Secret or Galaxy.

 

[Pratty]

just a question regarding the dry hopping.

I made a Standard American IPA and planned to add the hops at 48hrs like Ive done with the NEIPA style. The yeast is US05 and I over pitched from a yeast cake and ferment was at high krausen after about 6hrs. I added 4 ounces of CITRA to this 21lts batch at that time.

The yeast has slowed down after 48hrs so Im glad i added it when i did, my Question is , have others added the dry hops that early before?

Ive heard of some adding the hops when they pitch teh yeast before ferment.

 

[pearljam1984]

just a question regarding the dry hopping.

I made a Standard American IPA and planned to add the hops at 48hrs like Ive done with the NEIPA style. The yeast is US05 and I over pitched from a yeast cake and ferment was at high krausen after about 6hrs. I added 4 ounces of CITRA to this 21lts batch at that time.

The yeast has slowed down after 48hrs so Im glad i added it when i did, my Question is , have others added the dry hops that early before?

Ive heard of some adding the hops when they pitch teh yeast before ferment.

I have added them at yeast pitch. I have added them at 48hrs.

I have settled on around the 36hr mark for my first dry Hop addition. Doesn’t seem to be a hard and fast rule on exact timing. As long as fermentation is still going.

 

[Satedbrewer]

Awesome thread, all this info has really helped me dial in proces.

Latest double done with citra, mosaic, and simcoe.

 

[anteater8]

I splashed some sauvignon blanc into a glass of my Galaxy El Dorado version, and I'll be damned it doesn't taste even better. I've been wanting to do a whole batch of white wine NEIPA and I think Galaxy could be key, the flavors worked so well. Nelson would likely be making an appearance too!