New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[pearljam1984]

Why no keg hops can I ask?

I have always done hops in a muslin bag and it’s brought another level of aroma and flavor in the keg.. But, I hate to see tons of Hop particles floating around. I understand there are ways around this, and I have a mesh tube. Just trying to make a hazy beer without hop particles floating around. Personal preference really.

 

[jivy26]

40 min mash, recommended from a brewery that kills NEIPA, converted all my starches. Now trying the 30 min boil before I whirlpool [emoji106]

 

[ryanm8]

View attachment 550074 View attachment 550075 So just tapped the WLP007 batch.

OG 1.056
FG 1.009
5.5 Gallons

8lbs 2-Row
4lbs White Wheat
Mashed at 152

(Only did a 30min boil)
30min- .25oz Mosaic
30min- .25oz Citra
Flameout- 1.75oz Mosaic (30min)
Flameout- 1.75oz Citra (30min)
Dry Hop 1- 2oz Mosaic (18 Days) added about 48hrs into fermentation
Dry Hop 2- 2oz Citra (13 Days)
No Keg Hops(moving away from this)

Yeast- WLP007 (no starter). Fermented at 63-65. Moved to low 70s at about 1 week. Sample tested on day 3 at 1.010. It was a quick worker.

Left in primary for 20 days. Moved to keg under Co2 and left in room temperature for 7 days. Brought to kegerator and Co2 for 24 hrs and served.

Not as hazy as 1318 or S04. Flavor is a bit juicier imo.. this is the most wheat I have ever used. The mouthfeel is silky. This is close to 30days from brew day.

Any reason for the longer fermentation? I usually leave in primary for 10 days for fear of the hops losing their punch. I considered experimenting with a longer fermentation to see if I noticed any difference though.

 

[pearljam1984]

Any reason for the longer fermentation? I usually leave in primary for 10 days for fear of the hops losing their punch. I considered experimenting with a longer fermentation to see if I noticed any difference though.

Really I didn’t have a keg available. Also- I wanted to see if there were any off flavors or changes from the hops being in contact for so long. My experience is the beer is right at around 4/5 weeks. Before that it’s drinkable but green. Just my preference. I feel the same from a brewery. It’s good the day I buy it. But better two weeks later.

So whether it’s three in the primary and two in keg. Or two in primary and three in keg.
Overall I don’t see a difference.

 

[Andre3000]

Can anyone comment on where this recipe actually gets its "juicyness" and hop flavor from? I just did my first attempt an amarillo/centennial/simcoe, and I found whirl-pooling for 30 min is a huge pain with my system as it's pretty much a fully manual process. I'm wondering if I can accomplish the same juicy hop flavor with a larger dry hopping instead of whirlpooling.

I'm almost wondering the effect of a dry hop at yeast pitch, "biotransform", and keg dry hop would be. Anyone tried this?

Braufessor, why do you only keg dryhop for two days?

 

[Braufessor]

When I put thé hops in for keg dry hopping I only put them in for a couple days because that is all it takes. I really don't do that anymore at this point - I just do 3 additions - small bittering addition at 60, 6 ounces while I am chilling the wort, 6 ounces on day 2-3 of fermentation and that is it.

The "whirlpool" addition really does not need to be an actual whirlpool...... you can just throw them in as the wort is chilling and stir them up a bit a few times. That is all I do. Why is it a pain to put them in after the boil with your system?

 

[jivy26]

When I put thé hops in for keg dry hopping I only put them in for a couple days because that is all it takes. I really don't do that anymore at this point - I just do 3 additions - small bittering addition at 60, 6 ounces while I am chilling the wort, 6 ounces on day 2-3 of fermentation and that is it.

The "whirlpool" addition really does not need to be an actual whirlpool...... you can just throw them in as the wort is chilling and stir them up a bit a few times. That is all I do. Why is it a pain to put them in after the boil with your system?

Is it noticeable when you DH in keg or not enough to matter?

 

[thedon986]

Brewing this for the fourth time and using 1272 for the first time. Have used 1318 in all previous batches. Looking forward to trying to discern the difference in the yeast. Made a 1750ml starter and am going to save about 500ml for another beer. This starter has been a beast, overflowing the flask all night long. Not quite pitching at high krausen but it's recently fallen and still spinning. Looks like a spinning milkshake.

 

[Braufessor]

Is it noticeable when you DH in keg or not enough to matter?

No, in my opinion and experience..... it is way easier and just as good to throw all the hops in to primary. Takes out an entire step, one less transfer, etc.....

 

[runs4beer]

I have always done hops in a muslin bag and it’s brought another level of aroma and flavor in the keg.. But, I hate to see tons of Hop particles floating around. I understand there are ways around this, and I have a mesh tube. Just trying to make a hazy beer without hop particles floating around. Personal preference really.

Try going to Knee highs. They impart as much hop as muslin but keep all the bits inside.
at 10 for $6 they are one and done.
No Nonsense Women's Sheer Toe Knee Highs, 10 Pair Pack, Nude, One Size https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000RKS3TI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Sent from my SM-G935V using Home Brew mobile app

 

[pearljam1984]

Can anyone comment on where this recipe actually gets its "juicyness" and hop flavor from? I just did my first attempt an amarillo/centennial/simcoe, and I found whirl-pooling for 30 min is a huge pain with my system as it's pretty much a fully manual process. I'm wondering if I can accomplish the same juicy hop flavor with a larger dry hopping instead of whirlpooling.

I'm almost wondering the effect of a dry hop at yeast pitch, "biotransform", and keg dry hop would be. Anyone tried this?

Braufessor, why do you only keg dryhop for two days?

Brulosophy has taken some of the guesswork out of this. In The exbeeriment there was a definite difference between short and long dry hopping. But like most things, it’s really personal preference at the end of the day. You should try both and see what you like.

http://brulosophy.com/2015/10/26/dry-hop-length-long-vs-short-exbeeriment-results/

 

[jammin]

^pfff. Oregon State U did a dry hop length study years ago. It has already been determined that max percieved hop character can be achieved in as little as 24hrs. I’ll take that study over another one of brulosopher’s hack jobs any day

 

[pearljam1984]

^pfff. Oregon State U did a dry hop length study years ago. It has already been determined that max percieved hop character can be achieved in as little as 24hrs. I’ll take that study over another one of brulosopher’s hack jobs any day

Pfff? What’s to disagree with? I said there was a difference between short vs. long dry hopping. Not which one is better. try both and see what you like. Provided a similar article on it. They also said one wasn’t better than the other. Just different.

I went long in my last neipa because I had no empty keg. Perceived a more juicy profile with no harsh flavors. But again, doesn’t mean it’s better. Says my preference in this scenario was longer.

Dynamite drop in tho.

 

[Andre3000]

When I put thé hops in for keg dry hopping I only put them in for a couple days because that is all it takes. I really don't do that anymore at this point - I just do 3 additions - small bittering addition at 60, 6 ounces while I am chilling the wort, 6 ounces on day 2-3 of fermentation and that is it.

The "whirlpool" addition really does not need to be an actual whirlpool...... you can just throw them in as the wort is chilling and stir them up a bit a few times. That is all I do. Why is it a pain to put them in after the boil with your system?

Interesting, I thought keg hopping was very effective. How long does your chilling step take? I ask because with a hop spider I might not get much out of it since it only takes 15 min or so.

I'm using a hop spider so I really stirred quite a bit for the better part of the 30 min at around 170 because I didn't want to lose any more hop utilization than I had to. It adds extra time so if I can avoid that addition it would be nice, but if you think it's critical I may keep it.

Thoughts on just dry hopping?

 

[Braufessor]

Interesting, I thought keg hopping was very effective. How long does your chilling step take? I ask because with a hop spider I might not get much out of it since it only takes 15 min or so.

I'm using a hop spider so I really stirred quite a bit for the better part of the 30 min at around 170 because I didn't want to lose any more hop utilization than I had to. It adds extra time so if I can avoid that addition it would be nice, but if you think it's critical I may keep it.

Thoughts on just dry hopping?

From the time I turn the flame off until I am putting beer in the fermenter is maybe 30-40 minutes total. I shut off flame, start chiller, let it get down in the 160 range, leave chiller going, and throw in all 6 ounces of hops. I probably kind of stir it up once every 5 minutes or so. I let it sit for 5-10 minutes at the end to settle out a bit before going into fermenter.
In my experience, the keg hopping works well..... but, I just did not see any real difference when I skipped it and put it all in flame out and all in primary. Same results, less work.

 

[jammin]

@pearljam1984 - agreed nothing to disagree with. when you say brulosophy has taken the guesswork out of it though it’s worth mentioning that an accredited university with MUCH higher scientific standards has actually taken the guess work out of it for him.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

^pfff. Oregon State U did a dry hop length study years ago. It has already been determined that max percieved hop character can be achieved in as little as 24hrs. I’ll take that study over another one of brulosopher’s hack jobs any day

@pearljam1984 - agreed nothing to disagree with. when you say brulosophy has taken the guesswork out of it though it’s worth mentioning that an accredited university with MUCH higher scientific standards has actually taken the guess work out of it for him.

I wouldn't go that far. If you're talking about the study I think you are, it was a master's project that just looked at the extraction of certain small molecules. They didn't look at the bigger molecules, and had no sensory evaluation. Experience seems to suggest that the bigger molecules do make a difference to the overall sensory experience, and something like 48-72 hours is optimal. But you're the head brewer, you make your beer your way.

 

[Chrispy92]

Ok figured I'd do a prelim report with my first SG sample from my two first ever NEIPA batches.

Batches are 14-15L each:

On the left of the image is #2
OG : 1.057
SG : 1.010

Grist was :
3kg Pale 2 Row
.9kg Wheat
.2kg Flaked wheat
.2kg Flaked Barley

Mashed 66 C fermented with S05

Hops
10g Simcoe FWH
25g Simcoe Flameout
25g Cascade Flameout
14g Citra Lupuln 2
Whirlpool @ 68 C
25g Simcoe
25g Cadcade
14g Citra Lupuln 2

DRY Hop day 2
29g Simcoe
29g Cascade
10g Citra Lupuln 2

On the right is #1
Followed more so this recipe with grist changes.
OG : 1.058
SG : 1.012
3.65kg pale 2 row
1kg Wheat
0.250kg Oats

Mashed at 66C fermented with WLP007

HOPS
10g Simcoe FWH
25g Galaxy Flameout
25g Mosaic Flameout
14g Citra Lupuln 2

Whirlpool at 64C
30g Galaxy
30g Mosaic
15g Citra Lupuln 2

Dry Hop Day 2
26g Citra Lupuln 2
25g Mosaic
15g Galaxy


__________________________

Notes:

#1 WLP 007 hit SG of 1.012
#2 S05 hit SG of 1.010

Both are around 6% ABV

Visually #2 with flaked ingredients is much murkier even with less wheat and no oats.

On the nose #2 is dominated by passionfruit and a tart strong citrus (prob the Citra overwhelming the other hops) Silky smooth mouthfeel and velvety with a slight bitterness and much more sharp that #1

#1 on the nose is much more intense juicy, similar to 2 but way more pronounced. Passionfruit complexity with mango and pineapple. Very breakfast juicy. Still smooth, slightly sweeter with a nice silky finish no bitterness.

Still trying to source a bloody CO2 cylinder to dry hop2 and purge then bottle !

So excited and will post back with more when finished hopefully by Christmas!

Cheers

 

[pearljam1984]

@pearljam1984 - agreed nothing to disagree with. when you say brulosophy has taken the guesswork out of it though it’s worth mentioning that an accredited university with MUCH higher scientific standards has actually taken the guess work out of it for him.

Let’s put this trolling to rest. You are right. Whatever you say. Coool moving on.

 

[brew703]

Has anyone added golden naked oats to this recipe? Either replacing some of the oats or adding in addition.

 

[stickyfinger]

Has anyone added golden naked oats to this recipe? Either replacing some of the oats or adding in addition.

i did. couldnt really tell how it impacted much. i’m excited to try oat malt. i think it will add a rich oatey flavor based on conversations i’ve had

 

[stickyfinger]

i think i’m going to bag the german ale, 1007, in this style. the benefit is you will never have diacetyl with it, guaranteed, but it just doesnt work with super hoppy i think. only yeast that had NEVER had diacetyl precursors for me. thinking of trying wlp007, wy1272, farmhouse ipa yeast blend or wlp644 with something

 

[Northern_Brewer]

i think i’m going to bag the german ale, 1007, in this style. the benefit is you will never have diacetyl with it, guaranteed, but it just doesnt work with super hoppy i think.

Funny you should mention 1007, I was chatting with someone only this morning about its equivalent, WLP036 Düsseldorf, and some data that suggests that it will throw out a load of esters without too many nasties if you ferment it warm - like high 20sºC / 70sºF. I don't think it's something to risk a full batch on, I was going to try it in some unhopped DME starters first just to see how it responds to different temperatures, maybe even take it over 30ºC. If that doesn't work, I can always just use it cooler in something that needs a clean yeast.

Got a few other things on the to-do list first though

 

[SailorJerry]

So, I thought my Omega DIPA yeast wasn't working, checked gravity today, 5 days after brew day, and we've moved from 1.052 to 1.008. I missed optimal dry hop timing, so I dry hopped today. 2 oz of the following: simcoe, amarillo, and galaxy. Same as my whirlpool hop.

Hopefully it turns out!

 

[jivy26]

What is this optimal dry hop timing you speak of? I just thought 3 days into ferm was good am I wrong?

 

[milldoggy]

What is this optimal dry hop timing you speak of? I just thought 3 days into ferm was good am I wrong?

No right or wrong answer. Some dry hop 24 hours, some 3 weeks. I personally use 10-14 days. First hops in primary sit for 14 days, second dose for 10 days. But if I am busy and the kids are crazy may even sit for another week as a close transfer with cleaning takes me 3-4 hrs.

 

[popquizkid]

I know there has been talk about trying 1272 but don't remember any reports. Anyone try it? Noah from Bissell Brothers was on Brewing Network last night and said they have been using BSI A72 for all of their pale beers for the last two years. The source of that yeast is Anchor. They switched to the yeast as a one batch trial for Substance and they loved the results. Basically they stumbled across the "haze" by accident when trying that yeast. They have even tried to a small test batch and attempted to use biofine to clear it and it still remained hazy. Long interview but some really good nuggets of information in there. Worth the listen for sure.

 

[stickyfinger]

I know there has been talk about trying 1272 but don't remember any reports. Anyone try it? Noah from Bissell Brothers was on Brewing Network last night and said they have been using BSI A72 for all of their pale beers for the last two years. The source of that yeast is Anchor. They switched to the yeast as a one batch trial for Substance and they loved the results. Basically they stumbled across the "haze" by accident when trying that yeast. They have even tried to a small test batch and attempted to use biofine to clear it and it still remained hazy. Long interview but some really good nuggets of information in there. Worth the listen for sure.

interesting. Brau uses and likes 1272. i was just reading about the yeast and found this comparison, which was disappointing:

http://brulosophy.com/2014/09/04/norcal-vs-socal-a-battle-of-microbiological-proportions/

 

[Oldskewl]

I have used harvested Bell's yeast a couple times(supposed to be 1272). I like it but not as much as 1318. It has a more tart character to it than fruitiness. Starts out hazy, but drops much quicker than 1318.

 

[fragged]

What is this optimal dry hop timing you speak of? I just thought 3 days into ferm was good am I wrong?

From what I've read, that's correct for just about any yeast I know of. Essentially, the idea is to get it while it still has some points left. My understanding is that helps scrub any o2 released by the dry hop. Note: 3 days to me is really "as soon as the kraussen starts dropping". Before then and it may just blow your hops right out of the fermenter(did once with a normal IPA), after then and the fermentation is starting to die down.

While unlikely, I also like the idea that if there are any sanitation issues with the dry hop, the extremely active and plentiful yeast should win that battle.

In my readingI've not found any evidence that doing it later helps anything. I've keg hopped in the past and wasn't impressed with any portion of it, especially the effort.

 

[Braufessor]

I know there has been talk about trying 1272 but don't remember any reports. Anyone try it? Noah from Bissell Brothers was on Brewing Network last night and said they have been using BSI A72 for all of their pale beers for the last two years. The source of that yeast is Anchor. They switched to the yeast as a one batch trial for Substance and they loved the results. Basically they stumbled across the "haze" by accident when trying that yeast. They have even tried to a small test batch and attempted to use biofine to clear it and it still remained hazy. Long interview but some really good nuggets of information in there. Worth the listen for sure.

I have used 1272 quite a bit. I was very happy with the results. Conan, 1272 and 1318 are pretty much the 3 yeasts I use for this and would recommend. I use them fairly interchangeably, and often it simply depends on what yeast I am growing up for various beers.

 

[stickyfinger]

Had been meaning to brew this Brau Original, the Big Muddy Red:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/page-64#post-7836716

Brewed a variation with Pearl malt and no flaked grains on 10.30.17, and it tastes as good as it ever has today! It's a great beer, lots of super fresh "classic" hop character with a very firm maltiness that really adds to it. Great combo. Thanks Brau! Everyone loves it. Well, my friend's dad said, "oh, you guys like that river water, hoppy beer!" and i said, "hell yeah!" This really does look like river water, but tastes awesome!

Malt: %
TF&S Pearl Malt 77.0
Best Munich Malt 14.0
Crystal 80L 3.5
Crystal 60L 3.5
Aromatic 26L 1.5
Midnight Wheat 0.5

Balanced water profile b/w chloride and sulfate

40 IBUs Tinseth of Summit at 60
1 oz/gal Falconer's Flight at 165F for 60 mins hopstand
dry hop after high krausen with 0.5 oz/gal each of Cascade, Centennial, and FF

yeast was a blend of WLP095 (Burlington Ale) and Conan (OYL version)

make sure to transfer into a CO2-purged keg as always!

 

[stickyfinger]

I have used 1272 quite a bit. I was very happy with the results. Conan, 1272 and 1318 are pretty much the 3 yeasts I use for this and would recommend. I use them fairly interchangeably, and often it simply depends on what yeast I am growing up for various beers.

Have you guys found that a certain version of Conan works better than others. I like the flavors of the OYL Conan, but it definitely leaves a high FG in my experience. Is the Giga Yeast, Imperial or Yeast Bay a more reliable attenuator?

 

[Braufessor]

Had been meaning to brew this Brau Original, the Big Muddy Red:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/page-64#post-7836716

Brewed a variation with Pearl malt and no flaked grains on 10.30.17, and it tastes as good as it ever has today! It's a great beer, lots of super fresh "classic" hop character with a very firm maltiness that really adds to it. Great combo. Thanks Brau! Everyone loves it. Well, my friend's dad said, "oh, you guys like that river water, hoppy beer!" and i said, "hell yeah!" This really does look like river water, but tastes awesome!

Malt: %
TF&S Pearl Malt 77.0
Best Munich Malt 14.0
Crystal 80L 3.5
Crystal 60L 3.5
Aromatic 26L 1.5
Midnight Wheat 0.5

Balanced water profile b/w chloride and sulfate

40 IBUs Tinseth of Summit at 60
1 oz/gal Falconer's Flight at 165F for 60 mins hopstand
dry hop after high krausen with 0.5 oz/gal each of Cascade, Centennial, and FF

yeast was a blend of WLP095 (Burlington Ale) and Conan (OYL version)

make sure to transfer into a CO2-purged keg as always!

That is awesome - thanks for sharing. Gives me some motivation to get back after this one.

Looks perfect and I love the "hoppy river water" quote - named after the Mississippi River after all (inspired by Dubuque Star Big Muddy Red - the first "craft beer" I ever really loved). I am actually brewing a batch or two of this in the next week and was going to play around with a couple variations. To this day, there is nothing I love more than a truly great hoppy amber ale..... there aren't many out there, but, when you can find them - they are great. When done properly, they are rich and chewy.... but not overly caramel flavored. Classic hops - cascades, centennials, amarillo seem to do the trick in these beers as the classic citrus seems to cut the caramel. Going to try a batch with 1318 to see how that works, and then probably my stand by recipe with 1056.

A few that have inspired me to chase this style:
Big Muddy Red - Dubuque Star
Red Seal Ale - North Coast
Hop Head Red - Green Flash
Ambergeddon - Ale Asylum (Hit and miss - but there have been some great batches of this.)

 

[SailorJerry]

Have you guys found that a certain version of Conan works better than others. I like the flavors of the OYL Conan, but it definitely leaves a high FG in my experience. Is the Giga Yeast, Imperial or Yeast Bay a more reliable attenuator?

My first try with Conan from OYL went from 1.053ish to 1.008 in 5 days. Shocked me.

 

[stickyfinger]

To this day, there is nothing I love more than a truly great hoppy amber ale..... there aren't many out there, but, when you can find them - they are great. When done properly, they are rich and chewy.... but not overly caramel flavored. Classic hops - cascades, centennials, amarillo seem to do the trick in these beers as the classic citrus seems to cut the caramel. Going to try a batch with 1318 to see how that works, and then probably my stand by recipe with 1056.

Have some very fond memories of Red Seal Ale myself, great beer. I really like the classic hop profile. I also did a "red ipa" using C60 alone at 10% with an exclusive dryhop using Denali. It was a super pineapple bomb, but it really worked with the malty, caramel flavor as well. People really loved that one too.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Have you guys found that a certain version of Conan works better than others.

It's definitely the case that they're not the same and you should think of a Conan family rather than a single Conan strain. WLP095 seems to flocc more than is typical for instance, and people report variations in peachiness between different versions.

Having said that, it's common for first-generation Conans to not attenuate very well, but they're much better in the second generation and beyond. John Kimmich claims to be able to tell by taste which generation of yeast a beer is made from. He goes up to 10th generation, and apparently Greg Noonan up to 20, but beyond that it doesn't "go bad" exactly but it starts cycling between good and bad batches.

 

[aaronm13]

Kegged my second version tonight and my final gravity only finished at 1.012 again. Second time at that, should have been around 1.008. Any ideas why I can't get down those final few points? Using Yeast Bay Vermont yeast, this is the second beer using the same strain and make a double size starter each time for another batch. Maybe I miscalculated the amount of yeast I had as I always raise the temperature to 70-71 after dry hopping. I have a cold now so can't really taste it properly so hopefully when my cold shifts it will be good to drink.

 

[jjw5015]

Kegged my second version tonight and my final gravity only finished at 1.012 again. Second time at that, should have been around 1.008. Any ideas why I can't get down those final few points? Using Yeast Bay Vermont yeast, this is the second beer using the same strain and make a double size starter each time for another batch. Maybe I miscalculated the amount of yeast I had as I always raise the temperature to 70-71 after dry hopping. I have a cold now so can't really taste it properly so hopefully when my cold shifts it will be good to drink.

Lower your mash temp

 

[aaronm13]

Lower your mash temp

I mashed at 66°C/151°F, is that temperature too high for this style?