New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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olotti said:
I use 1318 a lot also and it is very fruit forward but the one thing with 1318 is will give you that exact turbid trillium look but if to much yeast is left it gives a very spicy tart taste a thing I have tasted also in trillium beers it's very distinct. It's a great yeast fro these beers as it adds to the tropical fruity flavor but it can overpower it if not cold crashed long enough for enough yeast to drop out
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I use 1318 all the time and have never tasted a spicy, tart taste from it, even before cold crashing. How do you know it's coming from the yeast?
 
stickyfinger said:
Can someone tell me if WLP095, Burlington ale is Conan? Is it the immediate ancestor to Conan? Kimmich took WLP095 and warped it into Conan? Seems very similar to GY Vermont IPA to me but less finicky
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I think only white labs knows for sure. However I was just watching chop and brew's: charlie p. Home brew history. He talks about the greats, including Greg noonan, his Vermont brewery was in Burlington. In another chop and brew episode, John Kimich said that Greg found the yeast that became Conan, and Greg let John use that yeast.


So.... maybe!
 
EndOfLine said:
I think only white labs knows for sure. However I was just watching chop and brew's: charlie p. Home brew history. He talks about the greats, including Greg noonan, his Vermont brewery was in Burlington. In another chop and brew episode, John Kimich said that Greg found the yeast that became Conan, and Greg let John use that yeast.


So.... maybe!
Click to expand...

Decided to email White Labs to see what they say, not too bad of info:

All I can say is that it is very similar to most Conan strains, although the exact origins and use aren’t something we actually disclose outside of those that absolutely need to know in the company (and unfortunately I am never one of those people). Even if it was that strain, strains change over time and under different sourcing conditions so they become a different strain rather quickly.
 
not sure the make up as of yet but Imperial Yeast just announced their new strain that is "designed" for these NE IPA's - it's called Juice. Not on their website yet but on Facebook page.
 
stickyfinger said:
not much room in a 6.5 bung for two holes, but i'll look into it
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Find a large funnel that fills the carboy hole and dangle a small diameter hose through the funnel for the CO2. Turn on the CO2 and dump the dry hops in the funnel.
 
kevink said:
For one batch, I put all 3 lbs of hops in the 16 gallon hop stand and didn't dry hop at all instead of doing both as usual. The beer sucked in comparison (but was still better than anything you could easily buy). I would like to try no kettle hops, except for extract at the beginning of the boil for a little IBUs only, and shift all of the other hops to the dry hop. Has anyone tried this?
Click to expand...



stickyfinger said:
dude, check my post above. i do ONLY bittering hops in the kettle and ALL character hops in the dryhop. DO IT!!!!
Click to expand...


This is pretty much what Trillium does. They only use Columbus in the kettle to achieve the bittering they want and then they vary the dry hop and throw a TON aroma/flavor hops in the beer with a tiny bit of Columbus. Usually a 4:1 ratio aroma/flavor hop to Columbus. Don't waste your precious aroma/flavor hops in the kettle/boil.

I'm only adding kettle hops at WP and get plenty of IBUs from that. Also, Scott Janish did an article about how dry hops can add to IBUs which I have found to be true - through no scientific study on my end but my beers are definitely bitter enough for no boiled hops.
 
lilbova3 said:
This is pretty much what Trillium does. They only use Columbus in the kettle to achieve the bittering they want and then they vary the dry hop and throw a TON aroma/flavor hops in the beer with a tiny bit of Columbus. Usually a 4:1 ratio aroma/flavor hop to Columbus. Don't waste your precious aroma/flavor hops in the kettle/boil.

I'm only adding kettle hops at WP and get plenty of IBUs from that. Also, Scott Janish did an article about how dry hops can add to IBUs which I have found to be true - through no scientific study on my end but my beers are definitely bitter enough for no boiled hops.
Click to expand...

I will have to try this..... I have been curious, but never gotten around to it. The other thing this would be good for (at least with my setup any way, or those with similar) is getting yeast.

I have SS Brew buckets with spigots, and also use bottling buckets with spigots for fermenters. Brew a beer with only bittering hops. There is basically no hop matter that ends up in the fermenter. Around day 3, sanitize the spigot, crack the lid, pour off a liter of fermenting beer through the spigot, into a sterilized/sanitized flask. Also, add first (or only) dry hop at this time after harvesting yeast. Spray spigot off again with star san..... You now have a flask of what should be very clean, very active yeast. Could either use that to pitch directly/immediately if you time it right, or, let it ferment out, decant and add 500ml-1000ml of starter wort 12 hours before your next brew.

Would make for a slick way to harvest yeast as opposed to brewing a blonde ale or something like that if people don't want to mess with those types of beers.
 
Tasted my one-day-in-the-keg latest NE IPAs:

80% Golden Promise
10% Carapils
5% Crystal 10L
5% Crystal 20L
20 IBU calculated bittering
100 ppm Cl
15 ppm SO4
Giga Yeast Vermont IPA
One batch then got 1:1 Citra:Galaxy and one got 4:5:3 Citra:Simcoe:Columbus, all in primary

It is super early in the beers of course, but I think I prefer the C-G version. It has a great depth to it. The Galaxy gives it a really potent, deep character. hard to describe. The C-S-C is much rounder and smoother of a flavor but I kind of miss the intensity of the other batch when drinking it. It's good though. I think I'll stick with WLP095 for now. The GY doesn't really have that much of a different character to my tastes. I guess I should try to pitch it again a few times though and see if it changes. Interested to see how this Imperial "Juice" yeast is.

I was shooting for a slightly fuller malt flavor with better head and mouthfeel in this batch, especially after the Brulosophy XBMT with the rolled oats. It seems to me that the head retention is better than my previous batches that have had base malt + 20% rolled oats. Mouthfeel, I can't really tell if it has more or less, seems similar. The type of hops used in the dry hop seemed to impact mouthfeel a LOT more than the maltbill! It still is very young though, with some yeast bite and tannins I think.

I've noticed now several times that when I use Citra, the beers get a very dry flavor. It's like I added gypsum to the beer. I like it, but I haven't heard people talk about Citra as a drying hop before. I've gotten it from at least 2 or 3 different suppliers, and it dries the beer each time. Could depend on the crop I get I suppose. One possible advantage of a hopstand-dryhop beer over a dryhop-only beer might be removing some of the tannic, drying character that massive dry hopping can give.

I am debating what to try next. Maybe 10% wheat malt and 90% Pale Ale Malt? I think that might be a good malt bill. For hops, I'm tempted to try a 1:1 Mosaic:Galaxy OR a 100% Mosaic. I think my favorite version so far is either the 1:1 Citra:Mosaic or the 1:1:1 Citra:Mosaic:Galaxy
 
Braufessor said:
I will have to try this..... I have been curious, but never gotten around to it. The other thing this would be good for (at least with my setup any way, or those with similar) is getting yeast.

I have SS Brew buckets with spigots, and also use bottling buckets with spigots for fermenters. Brew a beer with only bittering hops. There is basically no hop matter that ends up in the fermenter. Around day 3, sanitize the spigot, crack the lid, pour off a liter of fermenting beer through the spigot, into a sterilized/sanitized flask. Also, add first (or only) dry hop at this time after harvesting yeast. Spray spigot off again with star san..... You now have a flask of what should be very clean, very active yeast. Could either use that to pitch directly/immediately if you time it right, or, let it ferment out, decant and add 500ml-1000ml of starter wort 12 hours before your next brew.

Would make for a slick way to harvest yeast as opposed to brewing a blonde ale or something like that if people don't want to mess with those types of beers.
Click to expand...

This sounds really easy..... I should do this lol. You think 1L of fermenting beer has enough yeast in suspension for a direct pitch?
 
EndOfLine said:
This sounds really easy..... I should do this lol. You think 1L of fermenting beer has enough yeast in suspension for a direct pitch?
Click to expand...

If you are taking it straight from a day 2-3 fermenting beer and pitching it? Absolutely. The "amount" of yeast (within reason) is not as important as the yeast being active, healthy and ready to ferment. I would think you would get a great ferment off of yeast like that.

Now, if I was keeping it days or weeks before using, I would make a starter with it.
 
stickyfinger said:
Tasted my one-day-in-the-keg latest NE IPAs:

80% Golden Promise
10% Carapils
5% Crystal 10L
5% Crystal 20L
20 IBU calculated bittering
100 ppm Cl
15 ppm SO4
Giga Yeast Vermont IPA
One batch then got 1:1 Citra:Galaxy and one got 4:5:3 Citra:Simcoe:Columbus, all in primary

It is super early in the beers of course, but I think I prefer the C-G version. It has a great depth to it. The Galaxy gives it a really potent, deep character. hard to describe. The C-S-C is much rounder and smoother of a flavor but I kind of miss the intensity of the other batch when drinking it. It's good though. I think I'll stick with WLP095 for now. The GY doesn't really have that much of a different character to my tastes. I guess I should try to pitch it again a few times though and see if it changes. Interested to see how this Imperial "Juice" yeast is.

I was shooting for a slightly fuller malt flavor with better head and mouthfeel in this batch, especially after the Brulosophy XBMT with the rolled oats. It seems to me that the head retention is better than my previous batches that have had base malt + 20% rolled oats. Mouthfeel, I can't really tell if it has more or less, seems similar. The type of hops used in the dry hop seemed to impact mouthfeel a LOT more than the maltbill! It still is very young though, with some yeast bite and tannins I think.

I've noticed now several times that when I use Citra, the beers get a very dry flavor. It's like I added gypsum to the beer. I like it, but I haven't heard people talk about Citra as a drying hop before. I've gotten it from at least 2 or 3 different suppliers, and it dries the beer each time. Could depend on the crop I get I suppose. One possible advantage of a hopstand-dryhop beer over a dryhop-only beer might be removing some of the tannic, drying character that massive dry hopping can give.

I am debating what to try next. Maybe 10% wheat malt and 90% Pale Ale Malt? I think that might be a good malt bill. For hops, I'm tempted to try a 1:1 Mosaic:Galaxy OR a 100% Mosaic. I think my favorite version so far is either the 1:1 Citra:Mosaic or the 1:1:1 Citra:Mosaic:Galaxy
Click to expand...

I think i need to get back on the Galaxy train. not sure why I ever left but for some reason I did.
Give Apollo a try for some dank spicy citrus.
For malt the Pale and wheat sound good, id bump the wheat a bit. I just got a bunch of Weyermann malt in so my next go will be with their Pale malt, 10% wheat and 10% oats. maybe some table sugar to bump OG. I usually use pils or canadian 2row with wheat.
Right now my favorite hops for NE IPAs are are Apollo, Simcoe, Mosaic, Citra. Ive been going for the Dank and Melon notes of late and when I go heavy Simcoe/Mosaic with Conan, Ive seem to achieving it.
 
Great thread. Thank you Braufessor!
I'm about to brew my first NEIPA tomorrow. I have a SS Brewtech Conical as a fermenter. My question revolves around the 2 step dry hop process. I'll add the first dry hop addition at day 4-6 as primary fermentation dies down. No problem.
After that dry hop has been in the conical for 5 days should I drain the yeast and first dry hop out of the conical and add the second dry hop or should I leave it on the yeast? Would it better to add the first dry hop in a muslin bag and remove them after 5 days and then add the second round of dry hops to allow the yeast cake to remain on the beer?
What techniques are being used by others on this thread who have a conical? Thank you!
 
Brewing a quick turn around NEPA tomorrow with 1469. Just made the starter and dang this yeast smells good. The smack pack had this dark cherry/plum/sweet jammy character to it. Can't wait.

Which cheater hops should I use?

I have Citra, Mosaic, Azacca, Galaxy, & Centennial.
 
strangr419 said:
Great thread. Thank you Braufessor!
I'm about to brew my first NEIPA tomorrow. I have a SS Brewtech Conical as a fermenter. My question revolves around the 2 step dry hop process. I'll add the first dry hop addition at day 4-6 as primary fermentation dies down. No problem.
After that dry hop has been in the conical for 5 days should I drain the yeast and first dry hop out of the conical and add the second dry hop or should I leave it on the yeast? Would it better to add the first dry hop in a muslin bag and remove them after 5 days and then add the second round of dry hops to allow the yeast cake to remain on the beer?
What techniques are being used by others on this thread who have a conical? Thank you!
Click to expand...

Don't overthink things, just do one big massive dry hop at the tail end of fermentation for 3-5 days and make sure you transfer with no O2 exposure.
 
I posted in this thread many pages back with the intent to cloan (or make a similar beer) to Trilliums Galaxy Fort Point Pale Ale. Well 6 batches later and I think I have done it. Don't really know if it can get much closer or better.

Recipe and measurements 5 gallon batch:

8 lbs 2 row
4 lbs MO
3 lbs White Wheat
1 lb Carapils
8 oz C-20

I have learned to mash higher to improve mouthfeel. 157 at dough in falling to maybe 155 at the end of an hour.

Hops
0.25 oz columbus at 60 min
0.75 oz columbus at 10 min
1 oz columbus at F/O
1 oz galaxy and 1 oz columbus for 30 minute hop stand at 160ish

Water Profile according to brun
Cl 127
S 89
pH 5.29

Yeast London Ale 3

Ferment at 65 (fermenter temp strip on side of big mouth bubbler) until day 11, you can then go up if you like but the beer will/may be drier. By day 10 you need to be taking daily or every other day gravity readings until you get it finishing somewhere between 15-20.

Dry Hop

Day 4- 1 oz columbus and 4 oz galaxy
Day 8- 1 oz galaxy

All into primary. You could probably combine all dry hopping into one to be honest. I have also made this beer using Bear Flavored's technique of keg dry hopping and then transferring, don't know if there is much of a difference? Maybe in the nose?

OG 68
FG 15

For this beer, once you get the flavor profile, the trick will be in getting it thick enough and sweet enough to balance the hops without taking away from them.
Questions/Comments/Concerns?

20161210_171250.jpg
 
Anyone ever bottle or keg this after 10 days using 1318. My schedule next weekend is not conducive to bottling it then at day 12-14 when I normally would. So I want to dry hop today, day 5 while primary is slowing, the carboy is now ramped up to 71deg to help 1318 reach fg. So I'm thinking of bottling on this Thursday which would be 10 days post brew day. I'll take a couple gravity readings maybe Tuesday and Thursday to make sure it's done. I'd just rather avoid bottle bombs or overcarbonation issues and if day 10 is to soon then I'll have to postpone the dry hop and bottle it on day 15 or 16.
 
strangr419 said:
Great thread. Thank you Braufessor!
I'm about to brew my first NEIPA tomorrow. I have a SS Brewtech Conical as a fermenter. My question revolves around the 2 step dry hop process. I'll add the first dry hop addition at day 4-6 as primary fermentation dies down. No problem.
After that dry hop has been in the conical for 5 days should I drain the yeast and first dry hop out of the conical and add the second dry hop or should I leave it on the yeast? Would it better to add the first dry hop in a muslin bag and remove them after 5 days and then add the second round of dry hops to allow the yeast cake to remain on the beer?
What techniques are being used by others on this thread who have a conical? Thank you!
Click to expand...

I also have those conicals. I would do these steps, I believe that braufessor will agree with most of it.

Day 3: pour off 1 liter of fermenting beer to capture your yeast, then bag and drop hops in the conical.

Day 10: have a sanitized and purged keg ready with bagged dry hops in it, re purge.
Rack beer into it.

Day 14-16: close transfer beer from one keg to another. Cold crash.

Serve when carbed.
 
pegasus17459 said:
I posted in this thread many pages back with the intent to cloan (or make a similar beer) to Trilliums Galaxy Fort Point Pale Ale. Well 6 batches later and I think I have done it. Don't really know if it can get much closer or better.

Recipe and measurements 5 gallon batch:

8 lbs 2 row
4 lbs MO
3 lbs White Wheat
1 lb Carapils
8 oz C-20

I have learned to mash higher to improve mouthfeel. 157 at dough in falling to maybe 155 at the end of an hour.

Hops
0.25 oz columbus at 60 min
0.75 oz columbus at 10 min
1 oz columbus at F/O
1 oz galaxy and 1 oz columbus for 30 minute hop stand at 160ish

Water Profile according to brun
Cl 127
S 89
pH 5.29

Yeast London Ale 3

Ferment at 165 (fermenter temp strip on side of big mouth bubbler) until day 11, you can then go up if you like but the beer will/may be drier. By day 10 you need to be taking daily or every other day gravity readings until you get it finishing somewhere between 15-20.

Dry Hop

Day 4- 1 oz columbus and 4 oz galaxy
Day 8- 1 oz galaxy

All into primary. You could probably combine all dry hopping into one to be honest. I have also made this beer using Bear Flavored's technique of keg dry hopping and then transferring, don't know if there is much of a difference? Maybe in the nose?

OG 68
FG 15

For this beer, once you get the flavor profile, the trick will be in getting it thick enough and sweet enough to balance the hops without taking away from them.
Questions/Comments/Concerns?
Click to expand...

Interesting given that we know that Galaxy FPPA doesn't have MO in it. I also assume you meant ferment at 65 versus 165.
 
Pegasus, it would be cool to see if this same recipe works for other FPPA variants as I assume Trillium only changes the hops.
 
grassfeeder said:
Interesting given that we know that Galaxy FPPA doesn't have MO in it. I also assume you meant ferment at 65 versus 165.
Click to expand...

Lol yes 65, sorry.
I don't think the MO really matters to be honest, I had put in there in this last batch to try and amp up the Maltiness to combat the galaxy, but just adding the extra couple pounds of grain did the trick, the MO is not essential.
 
olotti said:
Anyone ever bottle or keg this after 10 days using 1318. My schedule next weekend is not conducive to bottling it then at day 12-14 when I normally would. So I want to dry hop today, day 5 while primary is slowing, the carboy is now ramped up to 71deg to help 1318 reach fg. So I'm thinking of bottling on this Thursday which would be 10 days post brew day. I'll take a couple gravity readings maybe Tuesday and Thursday to make sure it's done. I'd just rather avoid bottle bombs or overcarbonation issues and if day 10 is to soon then I'll have to postpone the dry hop and bottle it on day 15 or 16.
Click to expand...

Anyone thoughts here?
 
jammin said:
My last batch with Conan ferm'd at 165 was a total juice bomb. It's in a competition right now, I'll let you know how it scores. Hopefully I don't loose to many points for the extreme haze
Click to expand...

Please tell us your process. I have NEVER heard of a beer ever being fermented at that temperature. 165F you're saying, right? Either this is banana land or you're trolling...
 
olotti said:
Anyone ever bottle or keg this after 10 days using 1318. My schedule next weekend is not conducive to bottling it then at day 12-14 when I normally would. So I want to dry hop today, day 5 while primary is slowing, the carboy is now ramped up to 71deg to help 1318 reach fg. So I'm thinking of bottling on this Thursday which would be 10 days post brew day. I'll take a couple gravity readings maybe Tuesday and Thursday to make sure it's done. I'd just rather avoid bottle bombs or overcarbonation issues and if day 10 is to soon then I'll have to postpone the dry hop and bottle it on day 15 or 16.
Click to expand...


I've kegged on day 10 and 11 multiple times. FGs have finished somewhat high, in the .015-.017 range, for a pale ale but I just think it's because mashing temp and grains used. It could drop a couple more points if I left it in possibly but the beer is still really good so I don't care that much.

As long as your OG is in that range and you ramped the temp around day five I think you'll be ok. I don't think you'll get bottle bombs but could get some overcarbed ones if it's not completely done. I think this style really benefits from a lower carb too, 2.0-2.2 tops. Keep that in mind.
 
lilbova3 said:
I've kegged on day 10 and 11 multiple times. FGs have finished somewhat high, in the .015-.017 range, for a pale ale but I just think it's because mashing temp and grains used. It could drop a couple more points if I left it in possibly but the beer is still really good so I don't care that much.

As long as your OG is in that range and you ramped the temp around day five I think you'll be ok. I don't think you'll get bottle bombs but could get some overcarbed ones if it's not completely done. I think this style really benefits from a lower carb too, 2.0-2.2 tops. Keep that in mind.
Click to expand...

Ok good to know and i like to keep this carb range Inge lower end like u mentioned, I really think it helps to enhance mouthfeel.
 
I just brewed a 10 gallon batch of a NE Style IPA with predominantly Galaxy followed by Citra. I plan on putting it into 2 different kegs. One staying with the original recipe and then adding something to the second keg for a twist on it. I'm hoping to go away from the norm of using a different dry hop and I just tried coffee in my last ne style IPA which was good but now I'm on to something new. I was thinking adding some good Sauvignon Blanc. Any other suggestions?
 
Cevans95 said:
I just brewed a 10 gallon batch of a NE Style IPA with predominantly Galaxy followed by Citra. I plan on putting it into 2 different kegs. One staying with the original recipe and then adding something to the second keg for a twist on it. I'm hoping to go away from the norm of using a different dry hop and I just tried coffee in my last ne style IPA which was good but now I'm on to something new. I was thinking adding some good Sauvignon Blanc. Any other suggestions?
Click to expand...

coffee? that sounds awful! i'd have to taste it to believe it!!!
 
stickyfinger said:
coffee? that sounds awful! i'd have to taste it to believe it!!!
Click to expand...

A brewery here did a coffee IPA, and it got mixed reviews.
Many people enjoed the extra little zing it had, coffee beans tend to have a citrus type flavor, which can compliment.

If you decide to use Sauvignon Blanc, be careful, as it will significantly increase the perception of acidity. IMO I wouldn't so this one, unless you've got some form of souring already in there (Lacto) some other type of fruit might be beneficial though?
another local brewery here, adds a number of different fruits to IPA's and they all taste fantastic, without over taking thebase.

Feijoa
Mango
Pineapple
Grapefruit (obvious)
I think He did peaches as well?
Oranges are a good choice as well.
(I've never had it) but someone does or did a coconut IPA awhile back?
 
stickyfinger said:
coffee? that sounds awful! i'd have to taste it to believe it!!!
Click to expand...
Yeah the coffee was a cold brew of a light roast that had notes of lemon and citrus so it worked well the the citra/heull melon combo. Plus the cold brew cuts out the bitterness. A lot of people preferred it over the base beer.
 
Question for the group - how do you deal with (or do you even get), significant hop particles in your NEIPAs? I did a DDH, first stage in the fermenter, second stage in the keg. The second stage DH was 4 or so ounces, so not extreme. I keg DH loose, I have a shortened diptube (like 1/2 gallon or so shortened at least), and have drilled my stainless steel dry hopper and fit this over the dip tube. This has worked pretty well, but I usually end up with hop debris for a little while. This last batch, it is never ending. The biggest issue is this makes the beer painfully astringent and bitter, as you are scraping your tongue with tons of tiny little hop particles. Aroma is amazing but its pretty much undrinkable until it settles, if it does. The irony being, each day it is on the decline as we all know.

I am thinking the Clear Beer Draught system is in my future.

This picture is from a beer that has been kegged and under CO2 for 9 days at about 40 degrees, undisturbed. The picture was taken about 24 hours after it was poured and started to settle. When it comes out of the keg the hop floaties are everywhere. and they are suuuch tiny little flecks. I don't mind the yeast gunk but there is still so much hop junk.

hopdebris.jpg
 

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