New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[user 206254]

My water is sitting at 150 sulfate. Anyone try 150ppm sulfate and around 300 chloride (specifically thinking 289ppm). I'm worried the chloride is too high here and will have to dilute first.

 

[Braufessor]

My water is sitting at 150 sulfate. Anyone try 150ppm sulfate and around 300 chloride (specifically thinking 289ppm). I'm worried the chloride is too high here and will have to dilute first.

That seems really high on the chloride to me. However, I have not tried it myself..... so, I can't say for sure.

What is driving that super high chloride? That seems really unusual.....it is not water from a water softener or something is it?? Does it have high sodium too?

 

[user 206254]

Mostly out of being a tight ass and lazy. I want to try a 2:1 chloride to sulfate ratio and the sulfates here are 150. So instead of going and getting distilled water and diluting I was curious if anyone has tried 300 chloride

 

[WiscoBrewer]

That's a lot of chloride, might wanna call it Schitz.

 

[Braufessor]

Mostly out of being a tight ass and lazy. I want to try a 2:1 chloride to sulfate ratio and the sulfates here are 150. So instead of going and getting distilled water and diluting I was curious if anyone has tried 300 chloride

So is the chloride naturally 300 in your tap water though? Or would you be adding CaCl to get up to 300?

You could go for it.... you don't know if you don't try.

 

[user 206254]

No I'm adding CaCl2 to get there. Will probably end up playing it safe and cutting with distilled and end up at 75ppm sulfate and 150ppm chloride. Save the experiment for another day. Thanks for the input!

 

[Braufessor]

Brewing the first of my three side by side beers today with the following water additions:
Sulfate:Chloride
140:70
70:140
120:120

Going with Citra:Galaxy 1.5:1.5 in all 4 additions in all 3 beers

1056 Yeast

I don't expect anything monumentally difference in these beers, but I am curious if there is a difference in personal preference from one to the other. Curious to see if I can tell the difference at any significant level. Going to try to brew them 2 days apart so I can keep them as close to identically fresh as possible and so I can just move a new one into dry hopping keg when I move the finished one out.

Probably 3-4 weeks until all 3 are on tap and I can really check them out, but will let everyone know if there is anything worth knowing.

 

[stickyfinger]

cool, sounds interesting

 

[hezagenius]

Brewed this up on Friday. The grain bill is based on what is listed for Congress Street on Trillium's website. I had to guess at the percentages.

Bury Me In Smoke
SG: 1.068 (not certain on this since I was getting conflicting numbers between calibrated refractometer and hydrometer)
FG: targeting 1.014
9.25# 2-Row (74%)
2.5# White Wheat (20%)
0.25# CaraPils (2%)
0.25# Dextrose (2%)
0.25# Crystal 15 (2%)

1L starter of WLP007 (I'm curious if I can get the same haze with this as with 1318)

150 Sulfate
150 Chloride
100 Calcium
Na and MG to get numbers to balance out

0.75oz Columbus at 60min
3.00oz X331 at 180F, whirlpool for 30min
3.00oz X331 at 165F, whirlpool for 30min
2.00oz on Day 2 (maybe I can get a boost to the haze with this addition?)
6.00oz on Day 5 in the DH keg in a mesh tube tied to the bottom of the keg lid
I plan to finish fermentation and serve from the DH keg using the Clear Beer Draught System

The X331 hops had a massive dank aroma in the whirlpool. I'm hoping that can translate over to the finished product.

 

[duelerx]

Braufessor have you tried HotHead Ale OYL-057 on this recipe?, i read really good comments of this yeast.

 

[rwing7486]

Just curious what mash temp people are using when fermenting with WY1318. I know the conan and wlp007 have a higher attenuation rate than WY1318. I was thinking maybe mashing lower around 150/151 and adding 5% carapils to the grain bill. thoughts?

 

[lilbova3]

Just curious what mash temp people are using when fermenting with WY1318. I know the conan and wlp007 have a higher attenuation rate than WY1318. I was thinking maybe mashing lower around 150/151 and adding 5% carapils to the grain bill. thoughts?

I mash at 156* and use 5% Carapils with great results.

 

[scottsor]

Just curious what mash temp people are using when fermenting with WY1318. I know the conan and wlp007 have a higher attenuation rate than WY1318. I was thinking maybe mashing lower around 150/151 and adding 5% carapils to the grain bill. thoughts?

I mashed at 153 with 1318 on my first batch and finished at 1.015 (OG was 1.067). I know there are a lot of other factors involved but just a point of reference. Just brewed again this past Saturday and mashed at 150. I'll report back with the FG when I switch to a secondary next week.

 

[hopbrad]

I kegged the 1.050 batch up last week, it was really nice. dank, melon, tropical. The 1.062 batch was a bit disapointing. I had a power outage for 6 hours during the 1st day and things got up to 74 for a few hours. Super fruity leaning towards the banana side of things. overpowers all the delicious hops.
I've gotten some clove/spiciness when Conan got a little warm, but never banana. I was really excited for this one too, 1st time going with 150 chloride/75 sulfate.
I'll see if the Isoamyl acetate fades with some time in the keg and carbed up.
anyone else ever get this with Conan?

well its been about 10 days since kegging the higher chloride batch. It has mellowed a bit on the fruitiness but the fullness coming in from the high chloride seems to be accentuating the yeast fruitiness. Chalk that up as a skewed experiement due to the temp swing on day 1.
One positive is that it was a split batch with s-05 and I just packaged up that portion. Its really nice. Its a bit drier but still nice mouthfeel and the hops shine thru more as they dont seem to be competing with yeast flavors. I dont detect any off flavors but that was sort of expected since s-05 tends to be a much more forgiving strain vs conan.
Next conan batch will be back to the 150/75 in favor of sulfate or 100/100.

 

[ChrisGeb]

that should be per 5 gallon batch - i agree. 1 per gallon is crazy

Oops!! Yes, per 5 gallon. Got that from somewhere else and copied it over wrong. Just double checked.

Thanks for saving me there!

 

[stjimmyjos]

What do you think about this recipe:
40% pilsner malt
36% pale ale malt
6% wheat malt
5% flaked oats
5% flaked wheat
3% carapils
3% melanoiden malt (substitute for honey malt in eu)
4% dextrose sugar
1.056 og
30 ibu from ctz, around 50g each simcoe mosaic citra for whirlpool, 70 g mosaic, 50 g citra, 40 g simcoe for 1st dry hopping, similiar amount for 2nd dh. Fermented with wy1318

 

[Upthewazzu]

Cracked the keg on this one tonight, hoo boy it's a juicy citrus punch in the face:

Used a combination of Calypso (even though I hate it I was using up what I had left), Mosaic (again, not my favorite but had some left), and Amarillo.

WY1318 mashed @ 156
Starter: .5 liter
OG: 1.067
FG 1.015

Water:
Ca: 82
Mg: 12.7
Na: 12.5
Cl: 106
SO4: 54
HCO: < 1

 

[day_trippr]

Very pretty. Looks like a lovely breakfast beer from here

Cheers! ("OJ. It's what's for breakfast")

 

[EndOfLine]

Look great! How is the overall hop blend

 

[VT_jlee]

Holy haze, batman!

First time using 1318. I've made half a dozen NEIPAs before all with Imperial Barbarian. Would've kept using it but a friend brought over some 1318 on brew day so we used it. Ended at 1.009 and tastes like a tropical fruit smoothie!

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/416259/summer-zythos-simcoe-neipa-with-oats

Edit: I should add that it was this hazy after cold crashing for 48+ hours at 34F

View attachment 1479691321889.jpg

 

[Braufessor]

Holy haze, batman!

First time using 1318. I've made half a dozen NEIPAs before all with Imperial Barbarian. Would've kept using it but a friend brought over some 1318 on brew day so we used it. Ended at 1.009 and tastes like a tropical fruit smoothie!

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/416259/summer-zythos-simcoe-neipa-with-oats

Edit: I should add that it was this hazy after cold crashing for 48+ hours at 34F

That is an intriguing hop combo..... I have never used Summer hops before. What do you think of them?

 

[VT_jlee]

That is an intriguing hop combo..... I have never used Summer hops before. What do you think of them?

This is my first time using summer, but I am impressed so far. When my co-brewer and I were weighing out the post-boil additions we were so blown away by the aroma of the summer hops we changed the dry hop additions to feature that hop.

It smells like tropical fruit (papaya/mango) and bright melon, and the tastes from the fermenter are similar. I think our friends from down under have another winner on their hands.

 

[Braufessor]

http://brulosophy.com/2016/11/21/the-impact-of-flaked-oats-on-new-england-ipa-exbeeriment-results/

Interesting read...... Further supports what I have thought about the "hazy" factor of these beers..... It is NOT from yeast or flaked grains - but rather from interaction of dry hopping in primary, water chemistry, (and I still think) pH.

I do like that he had started out dismissing these types of beers, but remained open minded enough to play around with them.... eventually discovering that they can be quite good.

 

[stickyfinger]

it must be a combination of factors synergizing. My latest version has stayed very cloudy for more than 5 weeks now. Starting to think the primary dryhop is most influential.

 

[Braufessor]

it must be a combination of factors synergizing. My latest version has stayed very cloudy for more than 5 weeks now. Starting to think the primary dryhop is most influential.

I agree. I think that is where it is at too. I think that is the #1 factor.

 

[Johow]

Do you mean the timing of the first dry hop, while fermentation is still active?

 

[Braufessor]

Do you mean the timing of the first dry hop, while fermentation is still active?

Yes - I think that is part of it....as well as the amount of whirlpool hops/dry hops.

 

[Oldskewl]

I don't know if I'm convinced. On my last Hop Hands clone I did the whole dry hop in the keg. And I had substantial haze for 5 or 6 weeks. Even at 2+ months I would not consider it clear. Of course I used 1318 and 20% oat malt.

 

[crusader1612]

Anyone used the Danstar London ESB dry yeast for this type of beer?
Seems like a good candidate?

By the way someone recently did this with the Old Burton union MJ Yeasts (Empire?)

 

[stickyfinger]

I think amount and adding to the primary are key for haze for sure and great flavor. well, maybe you can have great flavor adding to secondary. i am NOT a fan of adding hops to the keg for the most part. I've had some very unappealing hop flavors doing that. I think it depends on personal taste a lot and on the type of hops used. Citra can work in the keg pretty well. Some others, no. It gets to tasting too dank, but in a more vegetal, unappealing way.

I did 12 oz of hops in the primary in my last IPA with no kettle aroma/flavor hops, and it is a fantastic beer. I still, one day, need to do a comparison b/w hopstand with dry hops vs just dry hops. Not sure of the amounts of each though. I'm sure half and half would be blown away by 100% dry hop, but maybe 25% hopstand and 75% dryhop would be better than 100% dry hop? I doubt it though.

 

[stickyfinger]

This Brulosophy on the oats vs no oats mouthfeel exbeeriment has me wondering. maybe i'll ditch my 20% oats next time and see how it goes. i have been noticing that crystal malts seem to contribute to a thick mouthfeel as effectively as oats i think. maybe i'll try pale ale base or 2-row base with a little munich and some light crystal. want to do a 12 gallon batch and do half with citra:mosaic:galaxy again and maybe one that is more of a simcoe:citra or something.

 

[mintyice]

http://brulosophy.com/2016/11/21/the-impact-of-flaked-oats-on-new-england-ipa-exbeeriment-results/

Interesting read...... Further supports what I have thought about the "hazy" factor of these beers..... It is NOT from yeast or flaked grains - but rather from interaction of dry hopping in primary, water chemistry, (and I still think) pH.

I do like that he had started out dismissing these types of beers, but remained open minded enough to play around with them.... eventually discovering that they can be quite good.

I rarely, if ever dry hop during primary and it's still super hazy.

 

[EndOfLine]

http://brulosophy.com/2016/11/21/the-impact-of-flaked-oats-on-new-england-ipa-exbeeriment-results/

Interesting read...... Further supports what I have thought about the "hazy" factor of these beers..... It is NOT from yeast or flaked grains - but rather from interaction of dry hopping in primary, water chemistry, (and I still think) pH.

I do like that he had started out dismissing these types of beers, but remained open minded enough to play around with them.... eventually discovering that they can be quite good.

Marshal also said it was the best ipa he has made! He must be so conflicted haha

 

[stickyfinger]

Marshal also said it was the best ipa he has made! He must be so conflicted haha

yeah, mr. clear-beer! ha ha.

 

[murphyslaw]

yeah, mr. clear-beer! ha ha.

I always wonder if the clear-beer folk shun hefes and other cloudy beer styles or if they just insist on certain styles being clear. If its the later, why not just recognize that these are essentially a different style?

I love listening to denny and drew, but man, every time they bash NE IPA as a style I wonder if they've had any good ones. I've only tried 2, both from tree house, and I just can't imagine someone drinking it and thinking anything other than "hold s*** this is amazing and different and amazing and give me more!"

Hoping to make it to tree house again this week!

 

[EndOfLine]

Recently I entered a British golden ale into a "real ale, cask condition only" event/competition. Because I wanted excellent mouth feel as well as hoppyness, I used the NE pale ale water profile, as well as the keg hop technique during priming.
The result? The beer was a hop bomb, hazy, and got me to the best in show table despite it being super hazy.

Only 2 ounces of hops for dry hop, tasted like I added 6 ounces. I closed transfer every with gas, and was super careful about not oxidizing my beer. I think that is why it was so hoppy.

Also one odd thing. The beer was tropical and juicy... Even tho I used 4 to 1 EKG to Chinook. Not sure where the passion fruit came from... Bio transformation during the priming and keg hopping maybe? The national ranked BJCP judges thought I used citra simcoe.

 

[murphyslaw]

Recently I entered a British golden ale into a "real ale, cask condition only" event/competition. Because I wanted excellent mouth feel as well as hoppyness, I used the NE pale ale water profile, as well as the keg hop technique during priming.
The result? The beer was a hop bomb, hazy, and got me to the best in show table despite it being super hazy.

Only 2 ounces of hops for dry hop, tasted like I added 6 ounces. I closed transfer every with gas, and was super careful about not oxidizing my beer. I think that is why it was so hoppy.

Also one odd thing. The beer was tropical and juicy... Even tho I used 4 to 1 EKG to Chinook. Not sure where the passion fruit came from... Bio transformation during the priming and keg hopping maybe? The national ranked BJCP judges thought I used citra simcoe.

Was it in a cask out front or a keg out back? I must have missed that one--would love to have tried it.

 

[Braufessor]

Recently I entered a British golden ale into a "real ale, cask condition only" event/competition. Because I wanted excellent mouth feel as well as hoppyness, I used the NE pale ale water profile, as well as the keg hop technique during priming.
The result? The beer was a hop bomb, hazy, and got me to the best in show table despite it being super hazy.

Only 2 ounces of hops for dry hop, tasted like I added 6 ounces. I closed transfer every with gas, and was super careful about not oxidizing my beer. I think that is why it was so hoppy.

Also one odd thing. The beer was tropical and juicy... Even tho I used 4 to 1 EKG to Chinook. Not sure where the passion fruit came from... Bio transformation during the priming and keg hopping maybe? The national ranked BJCP judges thought I used citra simcoe.

Wow..... that is really interesting. Beyond brewing NE IPA's like it is my job, my other two favorite areas to dabble are German Lagers (Dortmunder, Helles, Pilsner) and English Session ales like bitters and milds......

I have a beer engine....... I am now super curious about doing a NE IPA version of an EKG type ale..... Conan or 1318 are English yeasts ..... wheels are turning.

 

[stickyfinger]

Wow..... that is really interesting. Beyond brewing NE IPA's like it is my job, my other two favorite areas to dabble are German Lagers (Dortmunder, Helles, Pilsner) and English Session ales like bitters and milds......

I have a beer engine....... I am now super curious about doing a NE IPA version of an EKG type ale..... Conan or 1318 are English yeasts ..... wheels are turning.

what's your favorite bitter recipe? i am craving a good bitter after our trip to England last summer!

 

[EndOfLine]

Was it in a cask out front or a keg out back? I must have missed that one--would love to have tried it.

Hello fellow burp'er! It was in a keg out back with beer engine. It came out in the second wave. The whole keg only lasted an hour before it was all gone.

I am brewing it again now lol