New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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Braufessor said:
Well.... locally, I know because they release a batch of a certain beer and some of it is on tap and some of it is in cans .....from the same batch of beer. So, both are the same batch, the same age, and I will drink them the same week. The beer on tap is always as good or better than the beer in cans. I have never..... ever..... had a can of beer and said - "wow..... that is better than the stuff they have on tap right now." Sometimes it is equally good. It is never better. And, it is usually not as good.
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I’ve always found that cans have a solid life of 2-3 weeks. Then they start their degrade. Sometimes its simply they just floc out, especially with the increased use of lupulin powder in dryhopping. Next is oxygen. Someone mentioned something earlier about them not doing anything different caning but most canning line units have the ability to purge and then fill remaining headspace with c02, same concept as a beer gun for bottling from your keg. Helps, but again o2 does get in. But I agree with 100%. Cans can be as good if drank fresh but on tap remains king.
 
kevink said:
So they just blow gas in under low pressure for a specific amount of time? They are not filling it with sanitizer and then pushing it out?
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Most breweries do a caustic wash, then a hot water rinse, then a acid (sanitizer) rinse. All of this is under pressure and is pushed with co2, by the time the 3 rinses are done the keg is purged of O2.
 
jakturner said:
Most breweries do a caustic wash, then a hot water rinse, then a acid (sanitizer) rinse. All of this is under pressure and is pushed with co2, by the time the 3 rinses are done the keg is purged of O2.
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This seems like a much quicker process. I wonder if the guy I mention disassembles because he is a little anal or because their are so few kegs needing to be cleaned for 2.5 bbl system. I’m gunna bring this up to him though
 
To change the topic. I recently score 8 cans of Heady Topper and I am thinking about trying to harvest some yeast. I wanted to ask for some advice before I potentially start. Is it worth trying to do this or is it a fools errand?

The NEIPA I made a few months back had the Vermont Ale Yeast and I liked how it fermented. My brewing skills need to refining but I thought the beer has some potential.

I am going to go to kegging now and forced carbonation. I like the control you get this way. Thanks!
 
1bottlerocket said:
To change the topic. I recently score 8 cans of Heady Topper and I am thinking about trying to harvest some yeast. I wanted to ask for some advice before I potentially start. Is it worth trying to do this or is it a fools errand?

The NEIPA I made a few months back had the Vermont Ale Yeast and I liked how it fermented. My brewing skills need to refining but I thought the beer has some potential.

I am going to go to kegging now and forced carbonation. I like the control you get this way. Thanks!
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You can certainly do it. Now is it worth your time, depends on the person? For me, I personally wouldn’t take the time to do that and just use the 1318 or Burlington ale yeast because they are rumored to be a variation. but if it’s something you really want to do, then go for it brother. I would do a two stage starter for it. Do your first one as a 1l with a og of 1.035-1.40 just to get it to wake up. Let it go for 3 days at least since you don’t know how viable those yeast cells will still be. Once that starter is done and you see the new yeast floc out. Crash it and decant it. Then do your normal 2l starter should get the cell back to a pitching amount. But again you can’t exactly calculate it like you could with a fresh bag of yeast. Good luck if you do try and let us know how it goes.
 
1bottlerocket said:
To change the topic. I recently score 8 cans of Heady Topper and I am thinking about trying to harvest some yeast. I wanted to ask for some advice before I potentially start. Is it worth trying to do this or is it a fools errand?

The NEIPA I made a few months back had the Vermont Ale Yeast and I liked how it fermented. My brewing skills need to refining but I thought the beer has some potential.

I am going to go to kegging now and forced carbonation. I like the control you get this way. Thanks!
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When I have done it.....

cold crash can for several days at least. Take out without disturbing. Rinse of top with star san thoroughly. Have starter wort ready.... personally, I have gone .5L of 1.025 or so for the first starter. Gently pour beer in glass and leave 1-2 ounces in can. Swirl it up well and pour into starter.

In my experience, it has taken 2-3 days sometimes to really get something going. I swirl up the starter a few times a day.

The yeast can vary quite a bit depending on how many times it was used at the brewery (they use it for many generations and generation 3 or 4 is not the same as generation 15 or more for example. But, I have had a couple attempts that really gave off that "peach" ester that Heady can be know for.

Also, I have not done it in a while and they have massively scaled up over the years...... not sure if all of their practices are the same or similar enough to the past that it is worth while or if you are getting decent yeast out of the cans.

It does not hurt to try.... take the starter through a couple rounds and step up to a good size starter, run it through a low ABV blonde ale or something and see if you like what you have. If not, don't use it.
 
Thanks for the replies all. I had never considered the generation of the yeast coming out of the can. I always figured it was fresh pitched, first generation. Shows how much I know.

I am going to give it a go and see what happens. I will be sure to keep you all posted and take some pics.
 
Braufessor said:
When I have done it.....

cold crash can for several days at least. Take out without disturbing. Rinse of top with star san thoroughly. Have starter wort ready.... personally, I have gone .5L of 1.025 or so for the first starter. Gently pour beer in glass and leave 1-2 ounces in can. Swirl it up well and pour into starter.

In my experience, it has taken 2-3 days sometimes to really get something going. I swirl up the starter a few times a day.

The yeast can vary quite a bit depending on how many times it was used at the brewery (they use it for many generations and generation 3 or 4 is not the same as generation 15 or more for example. But, I have had a couple attempts that really gave off that "peach" ester that Heady can be know for.

Also, I have not done it in a while and they have massively scaled up over the years...... not sure if all of their practices are the same or similar enough to the past that it is worth while or if you are getting decent yeast out of the cans.

It does not hurt to try.... take the starter through a couple rounds and step up to a good size starter, run it through a low ABV blonde ale or something and see if you like what you have. If not, don't use it.
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They haven’t really scaled up though. Heady is still brewed on the same system in Waterbury. Even in Stowe, where everything else is brewed, the brewhouse might be bigger (and not even that much bigger) but I believe just like with Heady they don’t do multiple brews into one FV. They still do one brew per FV and then combine 4 into one bright.

Issue with harvesting from most of their beers is so many of them are high ABV so they’re not great for harvesting. I built some up from a few cans of Holy Cow which is one of their lower ABV canned offerings so most likely it was an early generation and it was still a rather lackluster ferment. Even with the recommend fermentation profile for that yeast.

If you really want to use something similar to Conan I’d recommend the Yeast Bay variation. In general it’s a very finicky yeast that requires some special handling and other than the peach ester, that you may or may not get, isn’t anything special.
 
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couchsending said:
They haven’t really scaled up though. Heady is still brewed on the same system in Waterbury. Even in Stowe, where everything else is brewed, the brewhouse might be bigger (and not even that much bigger) but I believe just like with Heady they don’t do multiple brews into one FV. They still do one brew per FV and then combine 4 into one bright.

Issue with harvesting from most of their beers is so many of them are high ABV so they’re not great for harvesting. I built some up from a few cans of Holy Cow which is one of their lower ABV canned offerings so most likely it was an early generation and it was still a rather lackluster ferment. Even with the recommend fermentation profile for that yeast.

If you really want to use something similar to Conan I’d recommend the Yeast Bay variation. In general it’s a very finicky yeast that requires some special handling and other than the peach ester, that you may or may not get, isn’t anything special.
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Is Imperial Barbarian similar to the Yeast Bay? That's what my LHBS carries so was planning on trying it in my next NEIPA.
 
milldoggy said:
Wonder if I can install it in my conical pickup tube
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I'd def prefer to use this in my conical over a keg just because of how easy it would be to install and remove. I use a Spike CF10, and the dip tube is quite a bit larger than those found in corny kegs which may pose a problem with fitting.
 
stickyfinger said:
This looks like it might be a useful product - at least worth trying once available.

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/newsletters/ElectricBrewery_Newsletter_Dec_18_2018.shtm
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I use something similar, just homemade. It's a 300 micron stainless mesh dry hopper, but I drilled a 7/16 hole in it and installed what looks like the same silicone grommet for the dip tube to seal to. The dry hopper I used has mesh under the lid as well. Works great!

The reason for the two long dip tubes in the pic is that I like to transfer into the keg through the gas post, so any debris ends up outside the mesh. Then after the transfer, swap back to the gas dip tube and purge the headspace real quick.
20180121_215215.jpeg
 
ThePaleAleIndian said:
I use something similar, just homemade. It's a 300 micron stainless mesh dry hopper, but I drilled a 7/16 hole in it and installed what looks like the same silicone grommet for the dip tube to seal to. The dry hopper I used has mesh under the lid as well. Works great!

The reason for the two long dip tubes in the pic is that I like to transfer into the keg through the gas post, so any debris ends up outside the mesh. Then after the transfer, swap back to the gas dip tube and purge the headspace real quick. View attachment 603085
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I do the same, but love the stopper design. My version for my keggle has a 5/8 hole and grommet. Bet Kal and the stopper team can make a conical one. Anyone remember kals hbt name so we can tag him?
 
Has anyone tried to brew a No-Boil NEIPA? I'd be interested in tips/suggestions.

I've seen some DME recipes, but I'd have to believe it would work with all-grain too.

My plan is to heat the wort to 175 and just whirlpool the hops for 20-30 minutes, skipping the boil completely -- since there are no hops added during the boil. (I'll use 2-row for the base instead of my regular pilsner to help keep the DMS away.)

In addition to wanting to shorten my brew day, I have trouble when I move inside and use my stovetop -- it can't boil more than about 3 gallons and that's on the biggest burner. But I wonder if I could get two separate kettles going with 3 gallons each... I bet I could get them up to 175.

The stovetop works in a pinch. I recently did a partial mash BIAB with 1/2 extract and it turned out pretty good, but it was essentially a new recipe based on my all-grain NEIPA.

I almost had that all-grain recipe dialed in, and would like to get back to working on it this winter. I just need to figure out how to do full all-grain on my 1970's-era coil stovetop... Maybe no-boil is the answer?
 
SRJHops said:
Has anyone tried to brew a No-Boil NEIPA? I'd be interested in tips/suggestions.

I've seen some DME recipes, but I'd have to believe it would work with all-grain too.

My plan is to heat the wort to 175 and just whirlpool the hops for 20-30 minutes, skipping the boil completely -- since there are no hops added during the boil. (I'll use 2-row for the base instead of my regular pilsner to help keep the DMS away.)

In addition to wanting to shorten my brew day, I have trouble when I move inside and use my stovetop -- it can't boil more than about 3 gallons and that's on the biggest burner. But I wonder if I could get two separate kettles going with 3 gallons each... I bet I could get them up to 175.

The stovetop works in a pinch. I recently did a partial mash BIAB with 1/2 extract and it turned out pretty good, but it was essentially a new recipe based on my all-grain NEIPA.

I almost had that all-grain recipe dialed in, and would like to get back to working on it this winter. I just need to figure out how to do full all-grain on my 1970's-era coil stovetop... Maybe no-boil is the answer?
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It can certainly be done. I would still boil the wort for 5/10 minutes. I know you can pasteurize above 175 but I wouldn’t feel comfortable with that. With extract brewing it should be easy to accomplish a no boil. If you’re doing 5gal all grain, the only problem I would foresee tanking in your efficiency, especially if your shoot for 1.060 or better. You would probably have to single batch mash w/o a sparge.
 
I've often wondered about no-boil NEIPAs. Are there any grains that require a boil to drive off flavors? If you don't plan to add hops until after flameout, then no-boil would save a ton of time. Or maybe just a quick 5 min boil for sanitizing the chiller and then cool it down again.
 
Dgallo said:
It can certainly be done. I would still boil the wort for 5/10 minutes. I know you can pasteurize above 175 but I wouldn’t feel comfortable with that. With extract brewing it should be easy to accomplish a no boil. If you’re doing 5gal all grain, the only problem I would foresee tanking in your efficiency, especially if your shoot for 1.060 or better. You would probably have to single batch mash w/o a sparge.
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Thanks. I think I will try for a 10-15 minute boil for good measure.

My current plan is to do a 3-gallon partial mash (single batch no sparge as you suggest) and let it sit in the tun overnight, then boil it the next day and add DME late addition and top off with water to get to 6 gallons into the fermenter. I am both trying to save time AND figure out how to boil smaller volumes on my weak indoor stovetop this winter.

I think I'll save trying the no-boil for 100% DME recipes..
 
SRJHops said:
Thanks. I think I will try for a 10-15 minute boil for good measure.

My current plan is to do a 3-gallon partial mash (single batch no sparge as you suggest) and let it sit in the tun overnight, then boil it the next day and add DME late addition and top off with water to get to 6 gallons into the fermenter. I am both trying to save time AND figure out how to boil smaller volumes on my weak indoor stovetop this winter.

I think I'll save trying the no-boil for 100% DME recipes..
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FYI, I had a situation where I wanted to let my mash sit overnight but after researching it the consensus was the grain could sour if they cooled down, which mine would have. I have let the pre-boil wort sit over night a few times with no ill effects
 
Northern_Brewer said:
This is a good piece on where we are with hop biotransformation - in short, there's anecdote to support it but it's kinda hard to nail down whilst we're waiting for proper science to be done on it :
https://www.goodbeerhunting.com/blo...-understanding-hop-compound-biotransformation
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I’m a believer of the biotransformation of hop flavors, However I do not believe it elevates an aroma or flavor, just makes it different.

I did an experiment last August where I brewed the same ipa. Both were ddh with 2 - 2 oz additions. The control was dry hopped at day 5 and day 2 before kegging. The experimental was dry hopped on day 2 of fermentation(the biotransformation addition) and again 2 days from keg. My and those who tried it anecdotal perception of the beers were that did taste and smell different, not overwhelmingly but different. We were ,however, unable to determine if the biotransformation made the beer any better. We concluded that it has the potential to cause a different flavor and aroma in the beer, which may or may not benefit the overall perception of a beer.
 
Dgallo said:
I’m a believer of the biotransformation of hop flavors, However I do not believe it elevates an aroma or flavor, just makes it different.

I did an experiment last August where I brewed the same ipa. Both were ddh with 2 - 2 oz additions. The control was dry hopped at day 5 and day 2 before kegging. The experimental was dry hopped on day 2 of fermentation(the biotransformation addition) and again 2 days from keg. My and those who tried it anecdotal perception of the beers were that did taste and smell different, not overwhelmingly but different. We were ,however, unable to determine if the biotransformation made the beer any better. We concluded that it has the potential to cause a different flavor and aroma in the beer, which may or may not benefit the overall perception of a beer.
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I could be totally off, but I feel as though I get a certain sweetness when I dry hop for biotransformation vs when I do not. My perception could be off, because I know when I dry hop. The only way to really tell would be to not know the schedule, therefore having no external factors influencing my tastebuds.
 
Dgallo said:
I’m a believer of the biotransformation of hop flavors, However I do not believe it elevates an aroma or flavor, just makes it different.

I did an experiment last August where I brewed the same ipa. Both were ddh with 2 - 2 oz additions. The control was dry hopped at day 5 and day 2 before kegging. The experimental was dry hopped on day 2 of fermentation(the biotransformation addition) and again 2 days from keg. My and those who tried it anecdotal perception of the beers were that did taste and smell different, not overwhelmingly but different. We were ,however, unable to determine if the biotransformation made the beer any better. We concluded that it has the potential to cause a different flavor and aroma in the beer, which may or may not benefit the overall perception of a beer.
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Curious, what hops did you use? I've found that certain hops/hop combinations will lend themselves to move flavor/aroma shifting than others.
 
wepeeler said:
I could be totally off, but I feel as though I get a certain sweetness when I dry hop for biotransformation vs when I do not. My perception could be off, because I know when I dry hop. The only way to really tell would be to not know the schedule, therefore having no external factors influencing my tastebuds.
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That’s the great thing about beer personal preference and perception Differ, the reason there are so many different styles and variations. You could certainly be perceiving more sweetness. But now the question is what is causing it. Is it the actual biotransformation or is it that the yeast themselves floccing out and taking the spicy/bitter hop particulates with it. Or is it even the earlier dh giving the hop particulates more time to drop out on their own prior to kegging that provides the sweet perception for you. I don’t know the answer to those question, just theorizing the possibilities.
 
JohnConnor said:
Curious, what hops did you use? I've found that certain hops/hop combinations will lend themselves to move flavor/aroma shifting than others.
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Citra and mosaic, both dry hops were split 1/2 and 1/2 for both the control and experimental
 
tld6008 said:
FYI, I had a situation where I wanted to let my mash sit overnight but after researching it the consensus was the grain could sour if they cooled down, which mine would have. I have let the pre-boil wort sit over night a few times with no ill effects
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Keeping pre-boil wort vs mash overnight is interesting... But in theory wouldn't the souring (lactobacillus) have as good a chance of spoiling the pre-boil wort as the wort sitting in mash? Or did you keep the pre-boil wort simmering at 140 or so overnight?

After doing some more research, it would seem that keeping the overnight mash above 130 might be better than letting pre-boil wort cool down.

I have not tried it yet, but I bet I can keep the temp above 130 in my insulated mash tun overnight - even more so if I wrapped it in a blanket and/or placed my heating pad on or under it...
 
SRJHops said:
Keeping pre-boil wort vs mash overnight is interesting... But in theory wouldn't the souring (lactobacillus) have as good a chance of spoiling the pre-boil wort as the wort sitting in mash? Or did you keep the pre-boil wort simmering at 140 or so overnight?

After doing some more research, it would seem that keeping the overnight mash above 130 might be better than letting pre-boil wort cool down.

I have not tried it yet, but I bet I can keep the temp above 130 in my insulated mash tun overnight - even more so if I wrapped it in a blanket and/or placed my heating pad on or under it...
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I do full volume mash overnight, I lose 10 degrees in 12 hrs. I wrap my ss mash tun we three wraps of reflectix, the cover, wrap with four comforters. This is in a 63 deg basement. My beer has only improved since doing this
 
milldoggy said:
I do full volume mash overnight, I lose 10 degrees in 12 hrs. I wrap my ss mash tun we three wraps of reflectix, the cover, wrap with four comforters. This is in a 63 deg basement. My beer has only improved since doing this
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I would think there is something else that you have improved on that improved the quality of your beer. Most studies show that after 60 minutes at temps no measurable(additional) simple sugars or complex sugars can be extracted. Not saying your beer hasn’t got better, because I’m sure it has but I lean to you improving somewhere else as well
 

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