NOOB iso advice on using cider in recipe

[Vernacular]

One batch into the "hobby", a dark Irish stout that is nearly half consumed already. Imagine that!

I have a desire to brew up a lighter colored stout, oatmeal, using apple cider in the mix, replacing some of the water. Would more than welcome any advice about a ratio of cider to water. I'm thinking two gallons of water (enough to steep the wort) and the balance in cider... have read that a yeast normaly used for wine or a campange might be best... even read one fellow saying he used a double dose... then there is the question of haze from the cider and the oats???

I have assembled the raw materials... still gleaningthe experience of other though.

Pretty much overwhelmed by the info you can get here and elsewhere on the internet.

 

[aseg]

I just made some cider, and the specific gravity was 1.060. So, if you are going to replace water, you're going to add a bunch of fermentable sugars.

Depending on your yeast choice the cider quantity will vary. If you choose a London/euro yeast there will be more apple-y "off flavors" than an Irish ale yeast (which would be more attenuative and have a higher alcohol tolerance). My guess is that you wouldn't want more than 3 gallons and erring on the side of two in reality.

 

[Vernacular]

Yes I am aware of the "extra" fermentables the ciderwill bring to the mix. Given that, I'm leaning toward the advice of using the chamagne yeast. Perhaps two gallons would be the safe approach though... I do want to break into this for cHRISTMAS...

 

[cervezarara]

There is a thread on New England Apple pie Ale here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/apple-pie-ale-243674/

This isn't a stout, but there are some thoughts on the cider addition.

 

[WolvinMaine]

You can use ale yeast, and you will be ok. Wine yeasts are meant to ferment very simple sugars, which they do very well. Some of them don't have the enzymes to break down the longer chains of malt sugars that brewers yeast has. I would suggest just using your brewers yeast and don't worry about the sugar in the cider, it will ferment that out as well.

 

[Calder]

Use any ale yeast.

1 gallon of apple juice will bring the approximate equivalent of 1 lb of sugar, or 1 lb of DME or 1.2 lbs of LME, or 1.5 lbs of mashed grain.

Use a clear juice and do not boil it (pour it straight from the container) and you will not have any haze.

The apple juice is completely fermentable, so the result will be fairly dry; certainly nothing like the sweetness of a stout.

I would suggest researching Graff and starting off with that.

 

[Vernacular]

Use any ale yeast.

1 gallon of apple juice will bring the approximate equivalent of 1 lb of sugar, or 1 lb of DME or 1.2 lbs of LME, or 1.5 lbs of mashed grain.

Use a clear juice and do not boil it (pour it straight from the container) and you will not have any haze.

The apple juice is completely fermentable, so the result will be fairly dry; certainly nothing like the sweetness of a stout.

I would suggest researching Graff and starting off with that.

Good to know about the equivalent value interms of extract and mash... I was wondering about that. However , and this is nuts I know, I am wanting to use local cider and the sugar content may not bethe same as canned stuff. I would think that meets some industrial standard. Then there is the issue of wild yeast and all that too... I have made hooch with local cider for years but never beer... anyone out there ever used local cider with all that comes with it?

 

[WolvinMaine]

I make my own cider from local apples. I do sulfite my cider, and I ferment it with wine yeasts which do ok with the sulfites. You have a few options. You can just go with it, and see what you get. You can sulfite it (campden tablets 1 crushed tablet per gallon mixed in, let it sit for 24 hours, then use it), or you can try to pasteurize it, by heating it up. I think when you cook it, you loose some of the taste, and you drive off much of the aroma.

Cider and stout actually works very nicely. I think the combination is called a Black Adder or a Snake Bite, I don't remember. The nice crisp acidity of the cider works very well with the heavier, roasty flavors. However, what is probably far simpler, and what I do, is just mix them when you pour them. I usually have a stout and a cider on tap, so I just pour the glass with both. In your case, just brew the oatmeal stout, then brew up some of the cider from your local orchard, and mix them in the glass. That way, you have 3 options, instead of 1.

 

[Vernacular]

Hmmmmmmmm Brew seperatly, brew together..... mix from the tap souinds good, like a apple black and tan. Mabe I will brew them seperately but bottle some of each and some of each combined, as I don't have a keg system. NOOB...

 

[Vernacular]

Alrighty then: Red Ale "Oatmeal/Apple Stout" in primary since 10pm 10-18-2011 and it's still bubbling away like there is a scuba diver in there. This stuff is gonna be wicked... SG going into the primary was 1.078 or 080. Smells like moms apple pie. It started life asa Red Ale kit and I added two pounds of a crystal 6 row and a pound of rolled oats, laced it with a touch of cinnamon and a half a touch of nutmeg. I might leave some of this out for Santa...

 

[AB-Brew]

Interested in how this turns out.

 

[Vernacular]

Interested in how this turns out.

I have been thinking about this combination since I first got the brew bug... it should be good to go by Christmas. This is the first time I have looked forward to Christmas in I don't know how many years. When I rack it to the secondary I'm going to float the hydrometer in it to get a hint about how it's gonna be. The cider jacked up the fermantables a bunch so it should be good.

Alrighty then...10/28/2011 I racked it to secondary today. WOW! there was a little more than half a gallon of sediment in the fermanter bucket. I did the SG check and worked it out... it seems to be about 7.28% abv. Maybe I shouldn't leave any of this out for Santa.

 

[AB-Brew]

How did it taste?

 

[Vernacular]

Not sweet... hard to tell yet because there was still floaties in it that need to settle out. What I have read seems to indicate that putting it outside in the cold may help that stuff drop out. Every now and then... I get bored waiting for it to happen... the airlock still let's out a little burp. You can see that the suspended stuff has little bubbles attached. Maybe arresting the ferment with cold WILL make the stuff drop out. (Any opinions or experiance out there on this?) Anyway as for the taste... it's beer but it tasted too "young" but it clearly has the kick I was hoping to achieve. No hint of the cinnamon and nutmeg I put in, but that may come out of hiding when the yeasties drop away. Maybe some nonfermentable sugar/sweetness will help bring that out? HA! This had been a wild experiment for me... a friend of mine (racin_ny), also a brew talk member told me I wasn't messing around for a noob, that I jumped right in. I am pretty confident that it will be a nice drink, maybe not apple pie, but way drinkable. Will keep you posted....

 

[aseg]

I think you should just let it finish out. Force crashing has a tendency to piss off yeast and yield some aweful flavors. That said, my ciders tend to over-attenuate losing sweetness in the process. If you do decide to cold crash it, you you do it 10* a day max. You mentioned putting it outside, so this is probably not an option.

At any rate, keep up the good work!

 

[Vernacular]

Well... this red ale/cider oatmeal... stout... (what to call it?) has already lost it's "sweetness" it's more like beer than cider, I had a taste of the sample I floated the hydrometer in when I racked it to secondary. So it's like beer but with a dry wine feel to it...

I heat the house with a pellet stove so I moved it to the room farthest away from the stove, decided against outside. It's clearing up nicely

 

[Vernacular]

Bottled today... Red Ale kit with a pound of 6 row barley, and pound of oats and two gallons of cider replacing some of the water. Very dry finish, fg of 1.015 going into the bottles. Hope is carbonates well, it was WAY flat... it had absolutely finished firmenting.

 

[Vernacular]

WOW is it good! AVB 8.00% This brew isn't sure what it wants to be.... one thing it is though is drinkable. With 2 gallons of cider in the mix it's like bubbly cider that ran away from home and turned into beer... kids!