No Successful Homebrew Attempts

[Roz762]

Hi All,

I just finished my latest homebrew: its a cream ale and has been bottle conditioning for almost 3 weeks. I just popped the top and tasted it. Its disgusting! I've been homebrewing for a year and a half now and have maybe 15 to 20 brews under my belt, NONE OF WHICH HAVE BEEN DRINKABLE.

Every brew that I have attempted has the same problem. The best way to explain it is a sour taste. It kills the malt flavor of whatever brew I taste it in. I have no idea what it is. Please help. I'm about ready to give up this hobby unless I can brew a damned beer worth drinking!

I sanitize EVERYTHING in idophor, even my hands. I bleach the counter tops and stove before I brew. I boil every ounce of water that eventually becomes beer. I use wyeast or whitelabs made from starters for every brew, making sure they are in date. I ferment in a controlled temp environment (the latest brew was fermented at a constant and 61*F). I've tried ales and lagers with the same outcome. I even bought a keg to see if my issue was with bottling. I highly doubt that it is oxidation. The homebrew store I buy from is great with their ingridients.

What the hell am I doing wrong? I've invested considerable time and money in this and would like it to pay off for once. I find it hard to believe that every brew has the exact same issue: that nasty sour taste.

 

[kpr121]

Have you used a different fermenter/bucket to see if thats the issue. Thats the only thing you didnt really mention that also is consistent from brew to brew.

 

[rod251]

Are you boiling tap water for your brew? If it contains chloramine, it won't boil out and you could be getting the off flavor from that. If that's the case, try campden tablets.

 

[kpr121]

Also I have to say that you are either extremely patient and dedicated to brewing or your slightly insane. I only say slightly because you have tried to do some things differently. :cross:

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" - Ben Franklin

 

[LaurieGator]

First I would ask about your tap water. Are you on city water or well water? Since it is every batch, this is what I would suspect first. If your water tastes awful, the beer won't taste much better. Our well water out here is nasty (and high in arsenic), so I use RO (reverse osmosis) water with additional brewing salts added back in. If you are on city water, the chloramines sound like the culprit.

Second, how old are the beers you are drinking? I notice you said that it had been bottle conditioning for a little less than 3 weeks. Do you have any of your homebrew that is a few months old?

 

[HexKrak]

+1 on the water source being your problem. After becoming so anal about your sanitation procedures from foul batches I'd be fairly confident in ruling that out (unless you're opening the bucket twice a day taking gravity readings with a dirty hydrometer in a moldy closet).

Also, buckets with scratches inside can harbor nasty little bugs that your sani-solution might miss.

Another Q: How are you cooling your beer to pitching temps, and about how long does your process take?

 

[malkore]

Can you find a local homebrew club and see if someone either
1. wants you help them on brew day
2. wants to help you on brew day

Whatever's going on, it sounds very consistent. Whether that's an infected bucket, bad water, or something else environmental...I can't really say.

But it does sound like an infection (sour) since chloramines should have a more phenolic/plasticy flavor.

 

[krisagon]

My water doesn't taste that great at my house, so I get 2 of the 2.5 gallon Deer Park containers at my supermarket, and brew with those.

 

[Bentpirate]

I don't want to sound stupid; but the practices seem normal and clean. My question back is how many home brews have you tried that others have made or micro-beers? Maybe the taste isn't sour but the bitterness from the hops. I assume the OP is brewing with extract vs. all grain.
What I would suggest, find a local micro-brew pub, take a bottle and them sample it. Trust me, as humbling as it sounds it is the best way to learn and get some sound advise where and what the problem may or not be.
What is the recipe of the last batch including process?

 

[Roz762]

First I would ask about your tap water. Are you on city water or well water? Since it is every batch, this is what I would suspect first. If your water tastes awful, the beer won't taste much better. Our well water out here is nasty (and high in arsenic), so I use RO (reverse osmosis) water with additional brewing salts added back in. If you are on city water, the chloramines sound like the culprit.

Second, how old are the beers you are drinking? I notice you said that it had been bottle conditioning for a little less than 3 weeks. Do you have any of your homebrew that is a few months old?

I brew with bottled water. Call me paranoid, but it is to avoid funky stuff like the kind you just outlined. I've tried all sorts from plain bottled drinking water to ozarka spring water.

Im more intrigued by your question about conditioning though. How long do you guys typically age a beer before you start drinking?

 

[Roz762]

I don't want to sound stupid; but the practices seem normal and clean. My question back is how many home brews have you tried that others have made or micro-beers? Maybe the taste isn't sour but the bitterness from the hops. I assume the OP is brewing with extract vs. all grain.
What I would suggest, find a local micro-brew pub, take a bottle and them sample it. Trust me, as humbling as it sounds it is the best way to learn and get some sound advise where and what the problem may or not be.
What is the recipe of the last batch including process?

I don't think its the hops. Its not a bitter, hop taste. Unless you mean I've just had batches of bad hops. I'm no neophite to craft brews, however. In fact, I prefer them. I have thought about taking a few bottles to my homebrew store here in town and letting them critique the beer. It is their recipe after all! I do have the benefit of living in Houston, and I might bound on down to the Saint Arnold's brewery and have them tell me what the hell is up with my brews.

 

[Fletch78]

Three weeks minimum, and usually gets better after that. How long have you been waiting?

 

[Roz762]

Also I have to say that you are either extremely patient and dedicated to brewing or your slightly insane. I only say slightly because you have tried to do some things differently. :cross:

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" - Ben Franklin

Its like you already know me...

 

[Fletch78]

Also, if it's fermenting in warm temperatures, the flavor is going to be funky.

 

[Bentpirate]

Age in bottles at least 2-3 weeks min. The longer the better. Try to save a few bottles for several months and you will notice a HUGE improvement.

 

[Roz762]

Three weeks minimum, and usually gets better after that. How long have you been waiting?

Maybe its an aging issue. Is what I have described consistent with young beer?

 

[Fletch78]

Yes.

 

[stevedasleeve]

What are you fermenting in? If it is plastic it is possible this might be the culprit - little scratches harboring nasties. I'd guess if you've done 15-20 batches and are still at it you might be somewhat committed so I would suggest getting a glass carboy and try that as you fermentation vessel. Unless you have already in which case I'd suggest quitting and becoming a mormon.

Steve da sleeve

 

[Roz762]

What are you fermenting in? If it is plastic it is possible this might be the culprit - little scratches harboring nasties. I'd guess if you've done 15-20 batches and are still at it you might be somewhat committed so I would suggest getting a glass carboy and try that as you fermentation vessel. Unless you have already in which case I'd suggest quitting and becoming a mormon.

Steve da sleeve

I have been thinking about upgrading to a glass carboy. I dont really suspect the fermenter though, because I have replaced it.

 

[IrregularPulse]

What's your time from brew day to bottling? Green apple is a xommon young beer description.

 

[TheWeeb]

the ex-intelligence analyst in me loves these kinds of issues, as there must be some kind of common thread that is pulling all of these bad batches together. Age is of course style-dependent; I am right now sipping an IPA that spent two weeks in primary, two in secondary, four days cold crashing, and three weeks in the bottle. An old ale I just bottled was five months in the secondary. So, that could be the issue, but again, it just does not make sense that all of your brews have been "horrible." I have half as many brews behind me, with only one of them bad.

There must be something else going on, something that is chronic and perhaps indigenous to your process or place. I have read a couple of these same kinds of threads where batch after batch comes out infected or way off flavor-wise, and perhaps the only constant is sanitation, air, and water. Water, you said, is not a factor, so that can be excluded. Sanitation, maybe try some other method other than Iodine, but something tells me that you have tried that already. That leaves air.

So I am going way out on a limb here, but I wonder if there is a presence of airborne mold spores in you home. You know, the kind that live behind wall paper or in the wood structures. I have no idea if this is even possible, but it seems that if they are in the air then they could, during aeration of the wort, be introduced. I have no idea if this would cause problems with the brew or if they would survive in the hostile environment of the active yeast. I am only bringing it up as a possibility since you seem to be doing everything else above and beyond what should produce really good beer.

Just a thought in the pursuit of the truth and a solution. I hope you find the cause and are able to correct it!

 

[Legin]

I agree with letting it age. If it gets worse or doesn't go away I would assume a contamination somewhere in the process. This is just an assumption and it could be something completely else.
I'm going to make a ridiculous assumption here: Do you use a refrigerator to maintain your temps? If you have been there is a possibility air has been getting sucked into your bucket. When you cool the wort it draws in air. Most buckets are not airtight, so there is a possibility that it may be allowing a fair amount to enter. But even so I imagine you would have a visible contamination. I'm just thinking outside the box, because your practice seems fine.

I have a very similar issue to yours that I'm trying to pinpoint. It's an almost smoky sourness that occurs late in all my beers, somewhere between secondary to bottle. I would try using a carboy and a one-piece airlock. Iodophor has always worked for me. A caps full per 5 gal, no rinse.

 

[heywolfie1015]

How much iodophor are you using? If it's too much, I could see the iodine flavor being nastily overwhelming. Maybe you should try Starsan for a batch or two and see if it's a better fit.

 

[Revvy]

Yeah I'm wondering how long your process takes from grain to glass. My beers take between 7-8 weeks before I crack the first one. 1 month in primary (or 2 weeks in primary and 2 in secondar) for "normal" beers. Then a minimum 3 weeks (@70 degrees) to let them carb and condition. Bottle carbing and conditioning though is dependant on temp and gravity of the beer. It may be 3-6 months or more for a high grav beer to be drinkable. But on average a normal beer in my stable becomes drinkable between 4-8 weeks in the bottle.

 

[JFry]

The last beer I had that ended up with an undesired sour taste was a Marzen. It was brewed when it was fairly warm and I had a hard time cooling it down below 85 with an immersion chiller; took over an hour, finally had to add ice as the tap water just wasn't cool enough. Maybe the length of time cooling down the wort.

Also, change your tubing regularly, bad things can get in there and it doesn't dry as well as buckets and siphons.

 

[Bmorebrew]

+1 on replacing tubing - I change my racking tubes often, they just seem to have a hard time drying out no matter what I do. They are cheap enough for a couple of feet that I easily feel justified. As hard as we work to make quality beer, a 20 inch section of 1.50 hose is not worth screwing up a batch.

 

[Roz762]

I have a very similar issue to yours that I'm trying to pinpoint. It's an almost smoky sourness that occurs late in all my beers, somewhere between secondary to bottle.

Thats exactly where mine happens. I always taste it when racking to secondary, then again from secondary to bottling. The beer tastes fine both times. In fact, it tastes great coming out of secondary. Again, I can't pinpoint anything in my bottling procedure that would be the culprit.

 

[cajunrph]

How do your older beers taste? Or do you finish a batch before you brew another one. I'd bring one over to the Homebrew shop to have them taste it. If it all taste fine up until bottling may be you can describe your bottling procedures so someone can analyze it. Or check out Revvy's bottling FAQ sticky for a rundown on how he does it. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/bottling-tips-homebrewer-94812/ You can send some down here, I'll taste them for ya.

 

[Revvy]

Thats exactly where mine happens. I always taste it when racking to secondary, then again from secondary to bottling. The beer tastes fine both times. In fact, it tastes great coming out of secondary. Again, I can't pinpoint anything in my bottling procedure that would be the culprit.

How bout your bottling spigot? WHat kind is it? The ones' with the red handles can harbor biomatter and can infect a beer. They need to be replaced every ow and then. You can take them apart to clean them, there's a tutorial on here of how to do it, but at 2 bucks a pop it's better to just replace them every couple years.

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

Have you used LME as your main source of fermentables in every batch?

I do mostly AG now, but recently I did a LME with steeping grains oktoberfest ale and immediately noticed how thin and sour tasting it was even after conditioning in the keg for 8 weeks. It was the exact same flavor I got with my first few batches. Any batch where I've used all DME or partial mash and DME never had that problem, only the LME with steeping grains batches had that 'twang' in my experience. I also noticed this same flavor in most of the homebrew I sampled at a recent beer festival in my area. I don't think it's a coincidence that the only LHBS in the area sells LME with all their kits.

If you're using LME with steeping grains, try switching to DME/partial mash and see if you still have the same problem.

 

[LCTitan]

1 on replacing tubing - I change my racking tubes often, they just seem to have a hard time drying out no matter what I do. They are cheap enough for a couple of feet that I easily feel justified. As hard as we work to make quality beer, a 20 inch section of 1.50 hose is not worth screwing up a batch.



If you have an Air Compressor try blowing some air through it before storing. Run some hot water through it and then sanitize just prior to using it. This should help with that problem.

 

[Legin]

Thats exactly where mine happens. I always taste it when racking to secondary, then again from secondary to bottling. The beer tastes fine both times. In fact, it tastes great coming out of secondary. Again, I can't pinpoint anything in my bottling procedure that would be the culprit.

If you've pinpointed it in this stage, it might be related to contamination in your spigot (as Revvy suggested), bucket, or maybe siphon even (but probably not). I'm convinced it's my bucket, and I'm not certain if iodophor is doing a proper job removing residue or getting between the cracks. I'll probably soak all my bottling equipment in a heavier "cleaning" solution and see if that helps.

Then again, I was reading up on a post about adding priming sugar and Austin Homebrew chimed in about contamination being very unlikely in the bottling stage because of the alcohol present in the beer making it impossible for contamination. Don't know if it's impossible, but I do know it is less likely.

Edit: So even your kegged beers had the same, identical taste?