No fermentation. Lost or re-pitch?

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cstrub

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I can't quite find this type question anywhere else on here. I made an American Wheat extract using a NB kit. It's my 4th batch with the first 3 turning out quite well. The only thing I did differently this time was to try city tap water. Part out of curiosity (seem to be plenty here who use tap water), part out of laziness to go get spring water.

The kit was very basic. All LME, no grains. I cooled the wort in an ice bath and also by adding direct tap water. Got it in the carboy with a temp in the mid-70's. Rehydrated the dry yeast in water that was probably 62 degrees (partially used bottle of spring water from previous brew) and pitched.

Anyway, it's 6 days now and still no airlock activity. In fact, several times I've seen the airlock indicating greater pressure outside the carboy and even saw one bubble go INTO the carboy instead of out.

So, did I somehow kill the yeast with a 10-15 degree temp differential between rehydrating and the wort? What can cause "reverse" airlock activity?

In the "what to do now" category, I do have a wyeast German Wheat yeast packet (not perfectly what was called for) I could pitch. But is the wort shot after 6 days with no ferm? Any other ideas?

Thanks in advance!
 
Thanks. I will take a hydro reading and see. I should have mentioned the complete lack of krausen as well. But I'll try the hydro tonight before I try anything else dramatic.

I did read your link. I've checked it every day so it's doubtful krausen could have come and gone between checkings.

Worst case, if I'm still at OG, should I give it more time or re-pitch?
 
Thanks. I will take a hydro reading and see. I should have mentioned the complete lack of krausen as well. But I'll try the hydro tonight before I try anything else dramatic.

I did read your link. I've checked it every day so it's doubtful krausen could have come and gone between checkings.

Worst case, if I'm still at OG, should I give it more time or re-pitch?

If the OG hasn't changed and it's been 6 days I would give the fermenter a gentle swirl to re rouse the yeasties and try to warm it up a bit...if there's still no action by wednesday I would repitch...
 
Was only slightly lower than OG, so there has been at least minimal activity. I gave it a little swirl. Thanks for the advice.

Your airlock comment made me curious. Shocked to hear you say there's almost no activity in half your beers. In a carboy with a good airlock seal, where is your CO2 going? There must be a significant volume, even in a low OG fermentation?
 
Was only slightly lower than OG, so there has been at least minimal activity. I gave it a little swirl. Thanks for the advice.

Your airlock comment made me curious. Shocked to hear you say there's almost no activity in half your beers. In a carboy with a good airlock seal, where is your CO2 going? There must be a significant volume, even in a low OG fermentation?

This is my standard "new brewer" answer to your question...

You should never rely on the bubbling or lack of on a cheap chinese plastic airlock as a "fermentation Gauge," it's not...It's an airlock, nothing more, a VALVE to release excess CO2, to keep from blowing the lid off the fermentor...

If it's not bubbling that just means that there's not enough CO2 to climb out of the airlock, or the CO2 is just forming a nice cushion on top of the beer like it's supposed to, or the airlock is askew, or it is leaking out the cheap rubber grommet, or you have a leak in the bucket seal, or around the carboy grommet...all those are fine...if CO2 is getting out then nothing's getting in....

Over half of my beers have had no airlock activity...AND that is spread out among carboys, buckets. water bottles, and anything else I may ferment in, and regardless of the type of airlock...I have 9 different fermenters...

That's why I and many others say repeatedly that the only gauge of fermentaion is your hydrometer (or refractometer) . Those are precision calibrated instruments...

More than likely your fermentation is going nicely at it's own pace but for a dozen possible reasons your airlock isn't bubbling...simple as that. Get out of the habit of thinking it is a precision instrument and you will find you are less worried...The only precise methid of gauging fermentation is taking gravity readings.

Back in the bad old days, the predominant airlock was an s type...and often they were made of glass and sat relatively heavy in the grommet, and that's where people like papazain and those who influenced him got into the habit of counting bubbles...but now adays with 3 piecers being the norm, and most things being made crappy these days...it's just not a reliable means anymore.

The trouble is, that even the authors for the most part have been brewing so long that they don't pay attention to the airlock, yet the perpetuate the myth from the old days of bubbles meaning anything....though I figure, as a writer myself, they have long moved past the basic methodology that they wrote about...it's easy to do...to "preach" something very basic, while doing a process somewhat more complex...or like most of us who have been brewing awhile, taking shortcuts.

Co2 is heavier than air...there can be plenty of co2 going on, plenty of active fermentation happenning but there is not enough excess co2 rising or venting out to actually lift the plastic bubbler

The 3 piece airlock is the most fallable of them all, often there is simply not a strong enough escape of co2 to lift the bubbler. Or they can be weighted down with co2 bubbles, ir hteir is a leak in the grommet or the bucket seal, anynumber of factors.

If you push down on your bucket lid often you will suddenly get a huge amount of bubbling as you off gass the co2 that is there present but no needing to vent on it's own.

I find that the older S type airlocks, even plastic are much more reliable...in face I have started to use those old school ones exclusively. Not to use them as a gauge of fermentation...but because I like to watch the bubbles..

But even those don't always bubble..BUT you can tell theres CO2 pushing out because the liquid will be on the farthest side away from the grommet or bung hole.


Even not bubbling. you can see that something has pushed the water to the other side...
03_18_2007_airlock_mlf.jpg


There's quite a few people on here who do not use an airlock at all, they simply loosely place their lids on the bucket, or cover with saran wrap, or tinfoil or pieces of plexigalss, these just sit on the top and if the CO2 needs to void out it doess...Because as I said before if the co2 is pushing out, then NOTHING is getting in.

If you look around on here at all the supposed "stuck" fermentation panic thread are not true Stuck fermentations, or deads yeasts, but are simply people like you using treating the vent like some precision instrument...And they, just like you use the words "Signs of fermentation." And that is our clue that you are going by arilocks.

And 90% or more come back and say they took a hydro reading...and everything was fine...

Rarely do yeasts these days get stuck...this isn't like the 70's when there was one or two strains of yeast, and they came from Europe in dried out cakes, and nowadays with our hobby so popular, even most tinned kits with the yeast under the lid trun over so fast that they are relatvely fresh most of the time.

So nowadays the only way our yeast "dies" or poops out is 1)If we pitch it into boiling wort 2) There is a big temp drop and the yeasts go dormant and flocculate out, or 3) if there is a high grav wort and the yeast maxes out in it's ability to eat all the sugar...and even then the yeast may poop out at either 1.030 or 1.020...But other than that most fermentations take....

AND this is regardless of any airlock bubbling...

Seriously, many of us pitch our yeast, walk away for a month and then bottle, and our beers have turned out great...The yeasts have been doing this for 5,000 years...they know what they're doing,

Hope this helps! You will find you are much more relaxed and able to RDWHAHB...if you ignore the airlock...

:mug:
 
Make sure that your primary is in a temperature controlled room, or at least one that is not too chilly. I've found that my basement in the winter is perfect, except that the floor is freezing. I always need to put something underneath the carboy to ensure that the beer gets to the proper temps.
 
^^^ also if the room is too cold it can cause the yeast to go sleep, but it would have to be pretty cold. like low 40's-30's. Give your bucket a swirl and warm it up to mid 60's or higher depending on your yeast.
 
I find that the older S type airlocks, even plastic are much more reliable...in face I have started to use those old school ones exclusively. Not to use them as a gauge of fermentation...but because I like to watch the bubbles..

This is the only reason I haven't switched to using tinfoil exclusively (after a few days with a blowoff). I just like to watch them bubble. :ban:
 
This is the only reason I haven't switched to using tinfoil exclusively (after a few days with a blowoff). I just like to watch them bubble. :ban:

Last year iirc EDwort was given a bunch of oldschool glass airlocks...He posted a pic..they are incredible and really heavy looking, you can see how they would sit heavily on a bucket, and force a good seal....I WANT!!!!
 
Thanks again all. Just for reference, I do have the s-type, though plastic. It was from my Nothern Brewer starter kit. I too really enjoy watching the bubbles come through. The most odd thing (and don't think I'm ignoring the advice) was seeing a backwards bubble direction about 4 days after filling the fermenter (glass carboy). In that time, it was never moved and the basement temp should have remained relatively steady. The fermometer, and my air thermometer in the same room, indicate about 63 degrees which is the low end of the ale range but should be safe.
 
thats ambient temp of the room. your fermenter could be around 10* higher during fermentation. try to get it a bit warmer if you can, just to be sure. A space heater works well.
 

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