No action! Yeah... I know. RDWHAHB.

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
R

RallyintheValley

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
53
Reaction score
1
Location
Maryland
No activity at 48 hours for my American Stout. Used Wyeast British Ale II 1335. Smacked it, didn't bulge, but I've had that happen before. No starter since it's a 2.5 gallon batch.

I know I could get a sample to find out if anything is happening that I'm not seeing, but I'm using a 5 gallon carboy for a 2.5 gallon batch. My thief isn't long enough. I rarely admit that, but I feel comfortable here.

Here's my question. Should I pour out a sample? I mean literally pour it out of the carboy. Or should I just drive the 30 miles to the LHBS tomorrow and repitch? I'd hate to lose this.
 
did you aerate the wort prior to pitching? I pour it back and fourth once before pitching and see action in hours. But I agree with mafisto, don't sweat it.

Also you may want to check your seal - sometimes I worry that there is not a lot of action and it ends up being the seal is not great on the bucket. I have not heard of this happening on a carboy, but who knows.
 
Lots of folks here say 72 hours, but me, I would be worried at 24 hours as I have never had one take longer.

However, provided your sanitation was good, the wort should also keep well.

I assume it is a glass or clear plastic carboy. If it is, you should be able to see if there is any activity. Do you see any bubbles coming to the surface?

I hope you have a pack of dry in reserve in case you need to pitch it tomorrow.
 
I'll let it go till Saturday. I aerate and I've already switched airlocks just in case. Never been past 18 hours so I'm in new territory here.

Thanks for the feedback. I know we get these "no activity" posts all the time.
 
You smacked and it didn't bulge? Clue #1
You didn't do a starter? Clue #2
Was it a high OG? Clue #3

I would say - get a pack of backup dry yeast and pitch it. Can;t hurt at this point.
 
Calder said:
Lots of folks here say 72 hours, but me, I would be worried at 24 hours as I have never had one take longer.

However, provided your sanitation was good, the wort should also keep well.

I assume it is a glass or clear plastic carboy. If it is, you should be able to see if there is any activity. Do you see any bubbles coming to the surface?

I hope you have a pack of dry in reserve in case you need to pitch it tomorrow.
Click to expand...

There isn't anything at all happening. No bubbles. Nothing. I don't have any extra. I'm hoping I can avoid the 60 mile roundtrip to my LHBS.

I guess my question should have been--at what point should I make the drive and repitch?
 
Calder said:
Lots of folks here say 72 hours, but me, I would be worried at 24 hours as I have never had one take longer.
Click to expand...

It's really only one person that says it. He just says it over and over and over and uses the royal "we" when he does.

Yes, it *might* take 72 hours for fermentation to take off, but it shouldn't take anywhere near that long. It's not normal and you would be right to be concerned.

It might end up OK, but I'd stake money that out of all fermentations that took 72 hours to get going, most of them ended up bad.

I'd pitch more yeast ASAP.
 
Made the trek this morning and picked up the closest I could find since my LHBS (can you call it local if it's 35 miles away?) only carries White Labs. The original was Wyeast 1335 British Ale II. I had no choice but to go with WL005.

Thanks for the input everybody. I guess we will find out how good my sanitizing is!
 
Next question... do I aerate again before pitching? There aren't any sings of fermentation, and taking a sample is out of the question since it's a 2.5 gallon batch in a 5 gallon.
 
Walker said:
It's really only one person that says it. He just says it over and over and over and uses the royal "we" when he does.
Click to expand...

Actually if you're referring to me...I first got that advice from Yooper, and I didn't write the sticky, someone else did, I think before I ever even joined this place. And LOT'S of folks evidently post in it saying the same thing.....:rolleyes:

So despite what you may believe, there's quite a few folks in that "we." When it's JUST me, I'll say it is me.

I don't use royal "we's." If I say we it's because people other than me have said the same thing.

Walker said:
It might end up OK, but I'd stake money that out of all fermentations that took 72 hours to get going, most of them ended up bad.
Click to expand...

Actually quite the contrary, if you cared to actually follow the zillion threads about yeast not starting, you'll find that pretty much all of them came out perfectly fine. I subscribe to the threads that I post in, so I follow up. And very rarely do they not turn out ok...In fact, I can't recall ANY where the beer didn't turn out ok.

In fact those stories are what's in the afore mentioned sticky.

So you can ASSume what you want about me, and what I have to say, but it's all clearly on here.

*shrug*
 
Give it a shake... any carbonation?

Also, my beer is usually at final gravity by 72 hours, I'd worry if it hadn't even started by then.

If the yeast was low viability like the lack of swelling suggests, it could be working but taking forever to start.
 
Piratwolf said:
That's absurd.
Click to expand...

Not really....If you're not seeing signs of fermentation in 24 hrs, you've under pitched, pitched a poor culture, have a poor quality wort, pitched at a less than optimum temp, didn't oxygenate properly, or there's some other QC problem.

I disagree fermentation can take 72 hrs for a *normal*, *healthy* beer. It should take no longer than 24 for yeast to begin to work their magic. Most of mine take less than 12 to show observable signs of fermentation. If it's a longer time frame, one of the above listed should be addressed
 
foltster said:
How do you know it's fine if you just bottled it last night?
Click to expand...

It tasted great. I think if the damage had been done, then the effects would have already revealed themselves.

I guess technically I won't know for sure until the first taste test, but everything looked and tasted fine.
 
Hugh_Jass said:
I disagree fermentation can take 72 hrs for a *normal*, *healthy* beer. It should take no longer than 24 for yeast to begin to work their magic. Most of mine take less than 12 to show observable signs of fermentation. If it's a longer time frame, one of the above listed should be addressed
Click to expand...

And yet we have hundreds of beers on here that turn out just fine that start put exactly like this thread and end up with everything fine.

That's the point of the sticky, LOTS OF BREWERS EVIDENTLY EXPERIENCE A LAG and yet their beer turns out fine.

How can anyone dispute this....just by the stories in the stickey alone? We're not making this **** up.
 
Hugh_Jass said:
Not really....If you're not seeing signs of fermentation in 24 hrs, you've under pitched, pitched a poor culture, have a poor quality wort, pitched at a less than optimum temp, didn't oxygenate properly, or there's some other QC problem.

I disagree fermentation can take 72 hrs for a *normal*, *healthy* beer. It should take no longer than 24 for yeast to begin to work their magic. Most of mine take less than 12 to show observable signs of fermentation. If it's a longer time frame, one of the above listed should be addressed
Click to expand...

First, my comment about absurdity was aimed at the idea that Revvy is the only person saying it can take up to 72 hours.

Second, I can see from your experience why YOU find that YOUR system works a certain way. However, if you read a lot in here & listen to Jamil and John Palmer, you'll hear that systems can vary hugely among home brewers, and that requires each of us to brew differently.

Third, I just had a 60 hour lag on a 1.061 ESB where I used a starter (per mr. Malty), pitched at 63 (per interview w/ head brewer at Fuller's), oxygenated just as I've done with brews that showed krausen in 6 hours, sanitized thoroughly, etc. That beer is now at FG and cold crashing, and it came out great. Funny old world.
 
Now that the problem has been averted:

My question to the OP:
Do we have a spare yeast in our fridge now so we don't have to make an unnecessary 60 mile trip the next time? I am same boat, so I figure $3.00 I may not need can save me $25.00 in gas if I do.
 
lou2row said:
Now that the problem has been averted:

My question to the OP:
Do we have a spare yeast in our fridge now so we don't have to make an unnecessary 60 mile trip the next time? I am same boat, so I figure $3.00 I may not need can save me $25.00 in gas if I do.
Click to expand...

Always, always, always a good thing to have on hand. I keep a couple packs of Us-05 in the butter drawer.
 
Revvy said:
And yet we have hundreds of beers on here that turn out just fine that start put exactly like this thread and end up with everything fine.

That's the point of the sticky, LOTS OF BREWERS EVIDENTLY EXPERIENCE A LAG and yet their beer turns out fine.

How can anyone dispute this....just by the stories in the stickey alone? We're not making this **** up.
Click to expand...

I guess I should clarify since this thread has taken a turn....

My yeast was dead. The gravity when I repitched was still at my OG. I pitched White Labs 005 on top of the dead Wyeast 1335. I did this at almost 72 hours. The reason this started is because I really didn't have any way to check my gravity. I was fermenting in a 5 gallon carboy with only 2.5 gallons. My thief wouldn't reach.
Just before I repitched, I actually ended up just pouring some out and checking it that way. Not ideal, but there were not any signs of fermentation and I figured that if I was going to lose it, I was going to document every step alone the way.

Thanks for the advice from everyone.

Not that it seems anyone needs my two cents, but I think we can all agree on this--fermentation should start within roughly a day, and if it doesn't... you need to keep a close eye and have extra yeast ready. It might be fine, but this is why I posted my question in the first place. Mine was definitely not fine, and I would have lost it if I didn't repitch.

No one wants to lose a batch, so you may as well be ready for all scenarios.
 
Walker said:
It's really only one person that says it. He just says it over and over and over and uses the royal "we" when he does.

Yes, it *might* take 72 hours for fermentation to take off, but it shouldn't take anywhere near that long. It's not normal and you would be right to be concerned.

It might end up OK, but I'd stake money that out of all fermentations that took 72 hours to get going, most of them ended up bad.

I'd pitch more yeast ASAP.
Click to expand...

x2
 
lou2row said:
Now that the problem has been averted:

My question to the OP:
Do we have a spare yeast in our fridge now so we don't have to make an unnecessary 60 mile trip the next time? I am same boat, so I figure $3.00 I may not need can save me $25.00 in gas if I do.
Click to expand...

I do indeed.

It makes total sense to have extra on hand, but you really don't think of it until it happens.

It's a learning process ya know :)

The other change I've made is I have decided to use a starter for my 2.5 gallon batches too.
 
RallyintheValley said:
I guess I should clarify since this thread has taken a turn....

My yeast was dead. The gravity when I repitched was still at my OG. I pitched White Labs 005 on top of the dead Wyeast 1335. I did this at almost 72 hours. The reason this started is because I really didn't have any way to check my gravity. I was fermenting in a 5 gallon carboy with only 2.5 gallons. My thief wouldn't reach.
Just before I repitched, I actually ended up just pouring some out and checking it that way. Not ideal, but there were not any signs of fermentation and I figured that if I was going to lose it, I was going to document every step alone the way.

Thanks for the advice from everyone.

Not that it seems anyone needs my two cents, but I think we can all agree on this--fermentation should start within roughly a day, and if it doesn't... you need to keep a close eye and have extra yeast ready. It might be fine, but this is why I posted my question in the first place. Mine was definitely not fine, and I would have lost it if I didn't repitch.

No one wants to lose a batch, so you may as well be ready for all scenarios.
Click to expand...

Um, excuse me, but if you don't have a hydrometer, and didn't take a gravity reading then, how do you REALLY know that at 72 hours your yeast was dead?
 
Revvy said:
Um, excuse me, but if you don't have a hydrometer, and didn't take a gravity reading then, how do you REALLY know that at 72 hours your yeast was dead?
Click to expand...

I never said I didn't have a hydrometer, I said my thief wouldn't reach 2.5 gallons in a 5 gallon carboy.
 
Piratwolf said:
First, my comment about absurdity was aimed at the idea that Revvy is the only person saying it can take up to 72 hours.

Second, I can see from your experience why YOU find that YOUR system works a certain way. However, if you read a lot in here & listen to Jamil and John Palmer, you'll hear that systems can vary hugely among home brewers, and that requires each of us to brew differently.

Third, I just had a 60 hour lag on a 1.061 ESB where I used a starter (per mr. Malty), pitched at 63 (per interview w/ head brewer at Fuller's), oxygenated just as I've done with brews that showed krausen in 6 hours, sanitized thoroughly, etc. That beer is now at FG and cold crashing, and it came out great. Funny old world.
Click to expand...

Here's the first two posts from the often referenced sticky:

"Don't worry if your brew takes up to 3 days to show signs fermenting.
Especially if you used liquid yeast and didn't make a big starter and oxygenate.
It is also worth noting that no bubbles in the air lock does not mean it isn't fermenting.

If at 3 days nothing seems to of happened then take a gravity reading to make sure you haven't missed the fermentation.
It is preferable to have a brew start fermenting as soon as possible
If you follow correct and advised procedures then I say most brews see activity in 6 to 18 hours. If this doesn't happen then it doesn't mean you've done anything wrong. You may just not be seeing it or it's taking it's time.

It is quite common for new brewers to get worried after 24 hours to 48 hours.
They get told to wait and then realise that the advice was correct.

First brew, and worried - Home Brew Forums
__________________
GET THE GOBLIN
Have a beer on me.


Rate Post:
Report Post Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message

Old 11-23-2007, 08:41 PM #2
Dude
Discover the motherlode

Dude's Avatar
Recipes

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Heidelberg, Germany, Baden Wurtemberg
Posts: 8,903
Dude's Gallery
Send a message via Yahoo to Dude

Default
Great sticky, because it is a popular question.

I will say though, let's not advocate that thinking fermentation starting in more than 12 hours is a good thing. It isn't. Any longer than 12 hours and you are looking for trouble--infections, sub-par beer and quite frankly it is a bad brewing practice.

Let's stress this thread on doing starters, aerating and oxygenating, and fundamental brewing practices! "

Both of these posts agree with my assertion that it is unusual for a normal, healthy fermentation to lag beyond 24 hrs. As Dude says, "you are looking for trouble--infections, sub-par beer and quite frankly it is a bad brewing practice."

I've only had one not start in 24 hrs and it was a phenolic bomb. If I would have re-pitched a healthy colony quicker, I *might* have saved that beer.

Glad yours turned out differently.
 
Hey, Hugh~

I feel sort of like we're having two different conversations here.

My first post aimed only at contradicting the idea that Revvy is the only one who says not to worry too much about a lag. (You can see that b/c I quoted only that single sentence.) It seems like you took that personal even though it wasn't aimed at you.

My second post merely points out that if there's an exception to the rule you're trying promote, then it can't really be a rule. Lots of people post "YMMV" because they recognize that it's hard to find an absolute rule in such a widely varying hobby.

I would add to the preceeding point that I just recently listened to Jamil Z. (rather a better authority on yeast than me) say that he thinks the hombrewer's mania for immediate and violent fermentation is misguided because the lag time is important to flavor formation and healthy fermentations.

All that being said, I am in complete agreement that most (or "normal") healthy fermentations start somewhere in the first 24 hours. I haven't seen anyone contradict that. All some of us are saying is that 72 hours is NOT unheard of for beers that turn out okay, and in my experience those who post such things are trying to reassure the worried new brewers, not create a dogma for those who already know what they're doing.

Hopefully this clears things up so we can move on and make more delicious beer. Cheers & keep brewing strong, sir! :rockin:
 
Piratwolf said:
Hey, Hugh~

I feel sort of like we're having two different conversations here.

My first post aimed only at contradicting the idea that Revvy is the only one who says not to worry too much about a lag. (You can see that b/c I quoted only that single sentence.) It seems like you took that personal even though it wasn't aimed at you.
Click to expand...

Nah, didn't take it personally. Should have posted that last in my last response.:mug:

Piratwolf said:
My second post merely points out that if there's an exception to the rule you're trying promote, then it can't really be a rule. Lots of people post "YMMV" because they recognize that it's hard to find an absolute rule in such a widely varying hobby.

I would add to the preceeding point that I just recently listened to Jamil Z. (rather a better authority on yeast than me) say that he thinks the hombrewer's mania for immediate and violent fermentation is misguided because the lag time is important to flavor formation and healthy fermentations.
Click to expand...

Understood, however, when we say "fermentation can take up to 72 hours" to a beginning homebrewer, that may be misconstrued as that being somewhat normal. Also, I haven't read/heard JZ's interview, but I wonder when he would be concerned if his beer didn't show fermentation. I'd agree with his assertion though up to a certain time frame.

Piratwolf said:
All that being said, I am in complete agreement that most (or "normal") healthy fermentations start somewhere in the first 24 hours. I haven't seen anyone contradict that. All some of us are saying is that 72 hours is NOT unheard of for beers that turn out okay, and in my experience those who post such things are trying to reassure the worried new brewers, not create a dogma for those who already know what they're doing.
Click to expand...

Sure it's not unheard of for yeast to take longer than normal. The point I was trying to make is there are reasons for these lags. In the OP's case, his yeast was dead; your was, more likely than not, because the temp was outside the normal range which caused the yeast to be a bit sluggish. (also speaks to your sanitation to have that long of a lag w/o other organisms taking hold).

Think if the OP just did the whole RDWHAHB and wait 72 hrs..then what? He finds the yeast is dead, the gravity didn't move and now has to figure out how he's going to make that 90 minute round trip to get another vial of yeast. Precisely the reason not to tell a newer brewer to wait 3 days before doing anything. IMO, a better tact would be to address it as if there may or may not be a problem and have plan B ready in case there is.

Piratwolf said:
Hopefully this clears things up so we can move on and make more delicious beer. Cheers & keep brewing strong, sir! :rockin:
Click to expand...

No worries, man. In the end, the goal is to make great beer. Cheers:mug:
 

Similar threads

C
First Timer, what now?
Replies
6
Views
1K
bwible
bwible
RileyOG
Newbie SG/Yeast/Bottle Bomb Question
Replies
24
Views
1K
Chalkyt
Chalkyt
kev211
Another "Did I ruin my Mead" Thread
Replies
0
Views
263
kev211
kev211
F
help with kick carrageenan
Replies
1
Views
418
day_trippr
day_trippr
B
Very High Post Boil pH
2
Replies
48
Views
3K
Bassman2003
B
wps-hbt2

Latest posts

Back
Top