only because you're making more $$ of people that aren't registered. And some people may just not want to be involved/associated with the AHA, but still like their beer judged? I don't know..
NHC competition - can't register, server slammed?
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only because you're making more $$ of people that aren't registered. And some people may just not want to be involved/associated with the AHA, but still like their beer judged? I don't know..
machfive55
Well-Known Member
At some point, yesterday, late in the day, around 5 PM EST, the site magically opened up and started allowing me to enter beers. At that point they did something to balance the load...OR people started dropping off because they started seeing sites filled up. It was interesting but that is when I finally got in.
So, I had the same experience as Barnesie, but I did get in finally. It's encouraging to see that if you registered yesterday you will get in, according to their statement. I think they did the right thing by pulling the plug to sort through the flack.
So, I had the same experience as Barnesie, but I did get in finally. It's encouraging to see that if you registered yesterday you will get in, according to their statement. I think they did the right thing by pulling the plug to sort through the flack.
machfive55
Well-Known Member
How about a staggered registration period, where preference is given to membership length? Longest standing members can register up to 1 beer during (or after)their time has started
20+ - gets first 12 hours to register 1 entry
15-20+ - second 12 hours
10-15+ - third 12 hours
7-10+ - 4th 12 hours
4-7+ - 5th 12 hours
3 - 6th 12 hours
2 -7th 12 hours
New members - 8th 12 hours
After that period it is open for anyone to register as many as they want
20+ - gets first 12 hours to register 1 entry
15-20+ - second 12 hours
10-15+ - third 12 hours
7-10+ - 4th 12 hours
4-7+ - 5th 12 hours
3 - 6th 12 hours
2 -7th 12 hours
New members - 8th 12 hours
After that period it is open for anyone to register as many as they want
I'd like to join but not pay any money, but I see no reason for them to cater to me, so I paid my dues and joined. If people would like to have their beer judged but not join then there are plenty of competitions out there for them.
It's obvious there is way more demand then capacity, so the only fair thing is to limit capacity based on your active membership status.
11 sites with 750 entries paying a minimum of $12 per entry adds up to about $99k in judging fees. That's not small change. Jack up the fee to $15 and make it members only and it would bring in $123,750 if it still filled to capacity.
machfive55
Well-Known Member
I like something similar. Comp is only open to members, and everyone gets 24 hours to get one beer in. After that, you have another 24 hours to get your next beer in, etc. So, you can only register once per 24 hours till they are all filled. Then, when registration is full, everyone has 24 hours to pay, if after that there are non-paids the remaining spots open up again.
BeerCutter
Active Member
This^, and why not make just the Ninkasi a points race using BJCP sanctioned events throughout the year, that way all those who want to can enter as many different brews and competitions as they desire. You could still present the award at the conference.
Darwin18
Well-Known Member
Consider that the AHA calls their competition the "National Homebrew Competition", not the "Annual AHA Membership Competition".
To be honest, the hobby has grown so much in the last few years that I'm not sure if the current format for the NHC is still feasible. Considering the prestige that goes with this competition, I would like to see a wide circuit of competitions throughout the year where only beers that place in the top 3 per category and/or meet a minimum qualifying score (Let's say 35) earn a "ticket" for entry in the NHC.
Let's be honest - we all know there are going to be entries to NHC this year that are going to be sub-par. It's the reality of every competition. If the NHC is THE competition than we should aim to have only the best entries qualify. It would reduce the overall rush that we experienced yesterday and possibly boost entries to other competitions as well.
Keep the prestige associated with the competition and keep it open to everyone not just AHA members. It would take a lot more coordination and work to keep that up though.
At the end of the day, they need to hire a real company for their ticketing and contest management. The embarrassment yesterday was more about servers failing under excessive mysql queries then it was about a limited number of available slots.
There are a lot of companies that do this VERY well, whichever company they are using isn't one of them.
There are a lot of companies that do this VERY well, whichever company they are using isn't one of them.
machfive55
Well-Known Member
I think there were many failures. You can't narrow it to one thing, but the IT part looms heavily. I do agree with Darwin, the competition format needs to be changed to accommodate the huge interest in the hobby...bottom line. The format worked fine for years but reached the tipping point THIS year. I would expect big format changes for next year.
Do these competitions typically load balance styles well naturally? Meaning, do certain regions tend to receive more of certain styles then others?
I'm almost equidistant from the NYC, Atlanta and OH judging centers so I couldn't really care less which my entries go to, but I could imagine a scenario where it might be easier to assign me a specific center rather then let me select one.
machfive55
Well-Known Member
Interesting thought...I'm not sure how the styles distribute but I would say there is a pretty natural distribution across the country. You will have styles heavily loaded compared to others but should see the same trends nationwide. It would be interesting to submit to regions based on the style you enter.
Chriso
Broken Robot Brewing Co.
Dunno about that, I've heard rumors before that the NHC West Coast judging sites, especially, receive way more IPA / other hoppy entries than the midwest & East coast sites do - and that if you want to enter an IPA, you should guess which one will receive the least IPA's and send it there to get the best odds.
Now you've got me really curious. Where could I get my hands on the data of # of entries, by style, by site, by year? I want to figure out the answer!!
Now you've got me really curious. Where could I get my hands on the data of # of entries, by style, by site, by year? I want to figure out the answer!!
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I looked at it last year out of curiousity, and the breakdown was a lot closer than I would've thought. It seems that all of the regions were pretty close in their numbers of entries per style.
What did stick out was the high number of stouts of the midwest, IIRC.
Some time between last night when I last checked and when I checked again just now, one of my duplicate charges went away, and it was the big one. Like a number of others on this thread, I had multiple charges (one entry, then all my entries, then all my entries again). The first small charge is still posted to my statement, but it looks like things are starting to get worked out finally, so I'm guessing that should disappear too pretty soon.
TheBreweryUnderground
Well-Known Member
They have charged my account twice, super annoying. Also I hope they don't switch my region around because I was planning on dropping the beer off so I don't have to ship all of it.
OP
OP
just got notifications of my refunds/cancellations for over-payment. charges on my credit card now match what they should be.
looks like the AHA has figured that part out, yeay!
looks like the AHA has figured that part out, yeay!
My entries are now marked as "paid" although I haven't received any official notifications yet.
OP
OP
next thing to figure out is how the over-750 beers are going to be handled. cut off? send to another location?
3 of my 7 registered beers are over the 750 mark, based on their reg#. the 4 that got in under the limit are the ones i most wanted to enter. if i have to pay additional shipping to get them to a different location, i might just bail on those...
3 of my 7 registered beers are over the 750 mark, based on their reg#. the 4 that got in under the limit are the ones i most wanted to enter. if i have to pay additional shipping to get them to a different location, i might just bail on those...
You can change the category/subcategory/whatever for any of your entries until you actually send them in with the labels attached. At least, you could last year.
GrogNerd
mean old man
yes, you can edit entries' categories
OP
OP
cool, good to know!
however my question remains: what will they do with the judging sites that have more than 750 entries? supposedly that's the max amount of beers that a site can handle. OH, for example, was last seen to be at over 920 entries. i think there was talk of letting the over-750 beers to be re-directed to other sites that weren't full.
TNGabe
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You check AHA forum? Seems like there are more updates over there. Since they closed down unfilled sites, I can only imagine the plan is to redirect overflow entries there.
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Here's my take on how it should go.
If, like TNG, you had some entries under the 750 max and some over, only the one's under get in (unless space opens up from non-paying entries.) That's what would have happened if the system hadn't failed and allowed too many entries. And since you're not allowed to enter in more than one region, you're done.
If all your entries are over the 750 limit, you should get the opportunity to move them to another site, because you would have had that chance if the system had not let you enter in the filled site.
If, like TNG, you had some entries under the 750 max and some over, only the one's under get in (unless space opens up from non-paying entries.) That's what would have happened if the system hadn't failed and allowed too many entries. And since you're not allowed to enter in more than one region, you're done.
If all your entries are over the 750 limit, you should get the opportunity to move them to another site, because you would have had that chance if the system had not let you enter in the filled site.
TheBreweryUnderground
Well-Known Member
Just got an email, my entries were part of the overflow in Ohio. So they waived my fees and I need to ship them to Kansas City. So I guess it evens out since I can use the fee money to pay for shipping. It's a pain to ship beer but at least I'm in.
GrogNerd
mean old man
i got this too
BrewKnurd
Well-Known Member
pretty cool that they waved the fees.
I entered in San Diego and now they say I have to send mine to Seattle. Yes they waived the entry fees....but I am still a bit confused. My numbers were 400 and 460 well within the cutoff of 750. I guess I will send mine to Seattle .....
BrewKnurd
Well-Known Member
Did you pay right away? I'm thinking if others of the "way too many who got let in" paid before you, maybe that's it? I dunno. Not saying that's right, but maybe its what happened.
I did...but I don't don't know if it went through. I got a receipt but was never charged. I ended up paying a second time the next morning. I hope it isn't more than 24 bucks to ship my four bottles to Seattle.....
BrewKnurd
Well-Known Member
It shouldn't be. I shipped a dozen bottles from baton rouge to Dallas for 17 bucks.
BrewKnurd said:
I registered 5 beers all of which above the 750 cut off (actually all of them were above 900) but I payed the first night, and I'm confirmed for the center that I originally signed up for.
I have two beers in the 800's and 900's in Ohio, three under 750. Paid the first night, just got an email that my payment is clear and I'm now registered. Nothing at all about waving any fees or sending anything to a location other than Ohio.
two_hearted
Well-Known Member
I got my refund on Thursday for my duplicate payment. Honestly, I thought it would take a lot longer.
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I'd love to hear AHA's logic behind this. If the system had worked properly and cut off entries at 750, you wouldn't have been able to enter these beers without trying another center. If someone did get in under 750 and didn't pay within 24 hours, spots would then open at your original center. The rules were never written up as first pay, first serve. The only way it would make sense is if enough people ahead of you didn't pay within 24 hours and you got in by default.
And what's with waiving the fees for people who had numbers over 750 and got moved to a new center. As much as it sucked, getting in under 750 was a combination of luck and persistence, but something that was to be expected for a contest that's this popular. I spent close to two hours working the system to get my entries in. I'm self-employed. That's two hours of billable shop time. I never expected to get that back. It was part of the game, but it sucks when they reward bad luck or lack of commitment. If they're going to waive fees because of system failure, it should be for all of us.
Actually...........In the rules, listed as rule 'g' it clearly states that your entries are not officially entered until they have been paid for and any entries not paid for after 24 hours will be deleted from the system.
As for the AHA I feel that they have done a very commendable job trying to straighten this whole mess out as the problem lies with the online system, not the faults of the entrants-in most cases it was not bad luck or lack of diligence on the entrants part. The majority of people worked very hard to stay on the system and try to get things registered and entered but the system failed them.
The fact that they have clearly stated that if you got in and registered, regardless of where or if paid they are honoring those registered and if that means you have to ship to a different location then by crediting your registration fees they are lessening the bite of having to pay for shipping.
If you have not yet read it there is an new update of status on the AHA home page dated 3/1 explaining what has been done and what is left to be done and can be read here: http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/community/news/show?title=nhc-registration-update
The fact remains that the system in place failed. The individual sites never cut off at the required 750 limit. While your entries may have been listed as being a number over 750 there is really no way for that to be verified because the system did not work the way it was supposed to. The fact that the AHA shut the system down to try and stem complete and total chaos was a good move and now they are working hard to clean up the mess and honor everything that was done. If it means you have to ship to a different location then so be it, at least you are in the competition!
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Actually........... the entry is not official until paid, but the spot within the 750 is reserved until you did pay and no more entries should have been accepted until the 24 hours had elapsed.
So, if it wasn't a combination of luck and diligence that got some entrant in and some not, what would you call it?
So, in one breath you're saying that someone getting in or not was based on nothing but a system failure, but then you say that the people who did get in, but were later should get special treatment over both the ones before them and all those who didn't make it at all. What about the many who tried for hours and never got anywhere? Should they be able to put in a request for automatic free entry?
If the system had worked flawlessly some of the centers would have probably filled in a half hour or so. This would have left a lot of these same people to either pay shipping to other locations or not enter.
edit to say:
It's easy to sit back and pick apart someone's decisions in hindsight. The reality is that I think that the AHA is doing a good job handling a tough situation. This is just conversation, not malicious contradiction.
Wow, this is like the media taking excerpts of something out of context............
Are you just angry because you lost billable time from your self employed job that you chose to lose, got in and paid the way you were supposed to or are you angry that the system failed, people got screwed and the AHA is just trying to make it right?
Are you just angry because you lost billable time from your self employed job that you chose to lose, got in and paid the way you were supposed to or are you angry that the system failed, people got screwed and the AHA is just trying to make it right?
Yes, this is true, but then the choice of entry would have been in the entrant's hands, not the AHA's
TheBreweryUnderground
Well-Known Member
After an email about waiving fees and moving me to a different site I just got another email saying that I haven't paid and need to pay by next Tuesday even though the website says I've paid and they only refunded 2 of 3 charges. I think I'll just try calling on Monday when they are open. I feel bad for how crazy this must be for them but it has also been super confusing and frustrating for the rest of us. In the future it would be nice to see the competition expanded and entries limited more so that the best brewers and not just the ones who get lucky or have enough time off to sit around refreshing a page for a few hours. I do like the idea of the MCAB format and that reminded me that I totally spaced and forgot the Drunk Monk this year.
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