NHC 2014 - Limit of 6 Entries

[bob1852]

<----Just signed up for a one-year membership with the AHA...Let's see how this goes.

Did you get your membership # at check out?

If not, contact them ASAP. When I signed up ~3 years ago it took weeks to get my card and many emails to even get it electronically. I know they are a small organization, but I find/found their customer service lacking...

 

[Darwin18]

Yes, but you can get the member ID after logging in and clicking on "My Account".

 

[sudbuster]

I sincerely do hope they get the number and quality of judges that they are looking for. However, if you go to:

http://www.bjcp.org/apps/comp_schedule/competition_schedule.php

You'll see that there "only" six first round entry competitions listed. There are going to be 12 first round locations in 2014. Registration confirmation is February 10th. That's approximately four weeks away. This list is fairly fluid but it's concerning to me that at least half the competition sites and dates are not listed with about 8 weeks to go before first round shipping is due.

There is a cap of 750 entries per site. A reasonable flight is 10 - 12 beers with a pair of judges doing two flights in both morning/evening sessions.

750 entries / 12 per flight = 62.5 * 2 judges per flight / 2 flights in one day = 62.5 judges, we'll round it down to 62.

Obviously you can decrease the amount of judges needed if you "pre-judge" a few categories, spread the competition over a few days, or bump the number of entries per flight (this will decrease score sheet quality). Realistically you're looking at at least 40 - 50 BJCP judges, and preferably at least one certified or higher in each pair to ensure quality scoresheets. People are going to be very upset if their entries are judged by novice or non-BJCP judges after spending $14 an entry - and honestly at that price they should expect quality feedback from high ranking and experienced judges. You also need a large group of stewards, organizers, and behind the scenes people to ensure that everything runs smoothly. The club that I am in is concerned about a 350 - 400 entry size competition; I could not imagine trying to organize a 750 entry competition. It's a massive undertaking.

Some regions will hit the judging number without a problem. Other regions, I am very doubtful of. The reality is that the pool of judges is limited both in size and geographically. Before people gripe about the BJCP - know that most of the people who register for the tasting exam drop out. The one that is run here in Raleigh routinely has people way down on the wait list end up sitting in the exam. You never also really know just how many judges and stewards are actually going to show up for a competition either...there's no penalty besides terrible karma for registering to judge and deciding you want to sleep in instead.

Additionally, most judges, including myself, want some kind of incentive to spend our own money and time for travel to judge these competitions beyond the BJCP experience points. I, personally, enjoy judging and talking about beer with like-minded people for hours. The carrot for 2015 is a nice one from the AHA, but I'm not sure that will be the deciding factor for many judges.

I could be completely wrong but knowing other judges, I don't think that is the case. I'm actually considering AHA membership, but I do appreciate your offer. It's hard for me to justify spending $50+ on a membership but I do enjoy Zymurgy and I grudgingly admit that homebrewers need an national advocacy group and at this point its the AHA.

Thank you so much for your kind and informative response. IMHO, it will all work out. I love AHA for all they have done for the homebrewwing community. I have been brewing since I first learned about the Zapap. So you can understand m loyalty to AHA. Cheers.......

 

[Darwin18]

Thank you so much for your kind and informative response. IMHO, it will all work out. I love AHA for all they have done for the homebrewwing community. I have been brewing since I first learned about the Zapap. So you can understand m loyalty to AHA. Cheers.......

There's nothing wrong with thinking critically about a national competition that affects people across the country. Perhaps I came off a bit harsh, but I didn't have the best experience with the NHC and AHA last year. I'm hoping that this year will be better and that real improvement will be made. There are a lot of AHA members that think the organization can do no wrong, but since I'm now a paying member, I do think that there is always room for improvement.

That being said....

I successfully logged in and was able to register four entries into the lottery this morning. The website had no visible delays and worked flawlessly. Excellent job, and much better than last year.

My only gripe is that there's only one southeast regional location which is in Nashville. The nearest center after Nashville is Austin, Philadelphia, and Denver. I fully expect any NE center to be slammed. Still we'll see in a couple weeks how many entries (if any) I'll be sending out.

 

[FarmerTed]

I had to switch browsers to put in my alternate locations; I got errors on IE, but could put in the alternates with mozilla. Otherwise, it went fine.

 

[Darwin18]

I do wonder how the alternates will work. Obviously certain sites will get more entries registered than they can handle like I'm sure the NYC site will. If you get three entries accepted, could someone wind up sending three entries to three different sites?

 

[bob1852]

I do wonder how the alternates will work. Obviously certain sites will get more entries registered than they can handle like I'm sure the NYC site will. If you get three entries accepted, could someone wind up sending three entries to three different sites?

In the past it wasn't allowed to send entries to more than on region...

I'm sure they'll try to get all of people's entries into the same region. Then again, history would suggest that won't happen...

 

[Braufessor]

Yep - very smooth. At least for now - this was the best "solution" to the problems that were mounting. At least AHA was willing to recognize the issue and put some things in place that have an opportunity to work. Guess we will see how it all shakes out in the end. Hopefully it works acceptably well for everyone trying to enter and folks get their preferred site, or an alternate that is relatively close.


It sounds like the "alternate" sites are not rank-order...... meaning they are all as likely as any other. I do wish they had a way of doing that. There were probably 3 sites I am indifferent with as a primary. 3-4 that I would be "ok" with sending to. 3 that I "will if I have to" and then 3 that I did not put down at all. I suppose, though, the book-keeping and logistics on all of this is already going to be overwhelming.

Regardless, this all seems like a step in the right direction as compared to last year.

 

[dtfleming]

Put my application in today for two entries with picking my primary and alternate site. I was able to get into the comp last year, but seems like this year is going better. I just hope if my entries do make it in, that the site won't rejected entries like last year were the beer sat on a delivery truck for an extra day.

 

[JustLooking]

Is "anything but NY" an acceptable alternate site?

 

[dtfleming]

Is "anything but NY" an acceptable alternate site?

hi:5, horrible site last year

 

[thatjonguy]

Anyone having problems registering? I just tried to log in with my email and member number. I am getting an error message.

My membership is valid through 2015 and I used the email in which I received their registration link.

 

[Darwin18]

Are you using IE? I read on the AHA forums that IE isn't compatible with their registration software. I use Fire Fox and had no issues. I think Safari would work fine as well.

 

[thatjonguy]

Chrome.

 

[nukebrewer]

Chrome.

I was able to register with Chrome on mobile. What's the error message you're getting?

 

[thatjonguy]

I was able to register with Chrome on mobile. What's the error message you're getting?

Invalid email/member combo or not current member. Both which are wrong. I logged into my AHA account to double check.

 

[nukebrewer]

Invalid email/member combo or not current member. Both which are wrong. I logged into my AHA account to double check.

I'd e-mail them and ask what the deal is. If you're sure your e-mail and member number are correct, there shouldn't be any issue.

 

[thatjonguy]

I'd e-mail them and ask what the deal is. If you're sure your e-mail and member number are correct, there shouldn't be any issue.

I fired one off, hopefully I can still get in the lottery.

 

[nukebrewer]

I fired one off, hopefully I can still get in the lottery.

You've got until Sunday so I'm reasonably sure you'll get a response back by then. Good luck!

 

[thatjonguy]

I was able to register this afternoon, must have been overloaded last night.

 

[Weezy]

I can imagine two options.

They could take a commonly used scheme used by a lot of professional organizations. Charge X dollars for registration to members, and charge X + cost of membership to non-members. Thereby, making all attendees be members.

Another thought is to just let the theory of supply and demand rule. Only allow the number of entrants that you can reasonably handle, and artificially set the entrance fee at a sufficiently high level to only attract that many entrants. Sure a lot of people will be pissed about a $125 entrance fee, but the event will be manageable.

 

[atoyot]

It's funny cause it's true. See you guys on the podium.

Don't start whining yet. Save it for when you don't win the lottery and don't get to enter any.

 

[tagz]

I don't think its rocket science. It's not like this is the first large scale competition ever attempted. It's outrageous that you can be a dues paying member and not get an entry into their annual competition.

 

[mattd2]

I don't think its rocket science. It's not like this is the first large scale competition ever attempted. It's outrageous that you can be a dues paying member and not get an entry into their annual competition.

What other large scale homebrew compitions are there? I was going to suggest (though I think someone already did) that could they not use a short form type of judging sheet for the regionals - with the judges just scoring, not making notes? But realised one of the biggest heardles would be a judge can only drink a finite amount before becoming impaired so it would atter if they could get through it quicker, you could still only judge so much with a certain number of judges.
The other issue is a lot of people would complain that they didn't get any feedback, even if they were upfront about only providing a score for first round.
Either the number of entries need to be limited or the number of "rounds" need to be increase, the second adds so much more compelxity to the event!

 

[FarmerTed]

So, has anyone heard from the lottery yet? They were supposed to start notifying people starting today. I didn't hear anything.

 

[thatjonguy]

Nope.

 

[bob1852]

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/news/national-homebrew-competition-entry-registration-lottery/

Stagger lottery results to prevent overwhelming the server.

Uh, wasn't that the point of the lottery?

 

[thatjonguy]

Sounds like someone needs a better server...

 

[jaydog2314]

no email either but when the begin to notify ppl they will all flock to the site to pay, seems like you're right jonguy, they need a bigger server!

 

[CadillacAndy]

No email for me either. The post said they'd be sending them out the 10th - 11th but it sounds like no one received it yesterday and with only a 2 day window to pay, this could get crappy quickly.

 

[Darwin18]

I haven't recieved anything from the AHA yet about my entries.

With a cap of four entries per entrant, all but just over 250 (7%) of the applicants could be accommodated and eight of the 12 judge centers filled to capacity. The judge center with the fewest entries still had more than 600 entries.

Why not give those 250 applicants an opportunity to enter an entry into one of the four under-filled judging centers? Or, this might be too much, why not adjust the number of entries at each center to allow for everyone to get an entry? Instead of issuing a blanket "4 entries per participant" statement, why not adjust to supply/demand? It wouldn't have been very difficult to do this at all.

I also thought that the week long registration process was supposed to be to prevent a heavy system overload from everyone logging on at once. I've seen one person on the AHA boards say that they've received an email confirmation. So delaying the confirmation emails, for whatever reason, and then giving people until Thursday to pay kind of defeats the whole purpose. I hope they've upgraded their servers this year to handle the demand....

 

[Braufessor]

I haven't recieved anything from the AHA yet about my entries.



Why not give those 250 applicants an opportunity to enter an entry into one of the four under-filled judging centers? Or, this might be too much, why not adjust the number of entries at each center to allow for everyone to get an entry? Instead of issuing a blanket "4 entries per participant" statement, why not adjust to supply/demand? It wouldn't have been very difficult to do this at all.

I also thought that the week long registration process was supposed to be to prevent a heavy system overload from everyone logging on at once. I've seen one person on the AHA boards say that they've received an email confirmation. So delaying the confirmation emails, for whatever reason, and then giving people until Thursday to pay kind of defeats the whole purpose. I hope they've upgraded their servers this year to handle the demand....

In regard to the 250 entrants being denied, and the underfilled judging centers....... my guess (and it is only a guess) is that those 250 entrants will have chances to take spots that others don't pay for. Also, those 250 people did have a chance to send their beers to the underfilled centers when they picked their alternate locations. My guess is that they picked a couple locations and essentially said they would not send anywhere else. If the place they picked filled up, and they did not want to ship anywhere else..... well, that was their decision.

I don't think this thing is perfect. But, it is still better than last year - and WAYYYYYYYYY better than it would have been this year, using last years methods with the big increase in demand again. I am reserving judgement to see how it shakes out over the next week. It will be interesting to see how many of those 250 end up getting in, and it would also be interesting to know how many of them put down only one or two locations for their preferences.

I have not heard anything either in regard to my entries.

 

[pjj2ba]

I got my email. Four entries. Tried to login with the provided info. several times with no luck. I finally put the three 0's in front of the password they provided in the email (as that is what my card has on it) and I got in. I don't know if it was the three 0's that got me in, or just luck in getting in at the right click.

Would have liked to have 6 entries, but I guess I can pick out the best of the ones I have and send those.

 

[AnOldUR]

Did you get your first judging location pick?

 

[blizzard]

I got in for 3 entries (all I requested) at my preferred location. Not sure how they are doing the notice, but my name is usually near the top of alphabetical lists.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[pjj2ba]

Did you get your first judging location pick?

Yes, had two alternates listed

 

[Darwin18]

Got an email a few minutes ago confirming my four entries to Nashville. FWIW my last name starts with a "G" so maybe they're doing alphabetical order? Haven't tried to pay yet. I'll do that tomorrow after I pay for my crown.

 

[noblesquirrel]

I sincerely do hope they get the number and quality of judges that they are looking for. However, if you go to:

http://www.bjcp.org/apps/comp_schedule/competition_schedule.php

You'll see that there "only" six first round entry competitions listed. There are going to be 12 first round locations in 2014. Registration confirmation is February 10th. That's approximately four weeks away. This list is fairly fluid but it's concerning to me that at least half the competition sites and dates are not listed with about 8 weeks to go before first round shipping is due.

There is a cap of 750 entries per site. A reasonable flight is 10 - 12 beers with a pair of judges doing two flights in both morning/evening sessions.

750 entries / 12 per flight = 62.5 * 2 judges per flight / 2 flights in one day = 62.5 judges, we'll round it down to 62.

Obviously you can decrease the amount of judges needed if you "pre-judge" a few categories, spread the competition over a few days, or bump the number of entries per flight (this will decrease score sheet quality). Realistically you're looking at at least 40 - 50 BJCP judges, and preferably at least one certified or higher in each pair to ensure quality scoresheets. People are going to be very upset if their entries are judged by novice or non-BJCP judges after spending $14 an entry - and honestly at that price they should expect quality feedback from high ranking and experienced judges. You also need a large group of stewards, organizers, and behind the scenes people to ensure that everything runs smoothly. The club that I am in is concerned about a 350 - 400 entry size competition; I could not imagine trying to organize a 750 entry competition. It's a massive undertaking.

Some regions will hit the judging number without a problem. Other regions, I am very doubtful of. The reality is that the pool of judges is limited both in size and geographically. Before people gripe about the BJCP - know that most of the people who register for the tasting exam drop out. The one that is run here in Raleigh routinely has people way down on the wait list end up sitting in the exam. You never also really know just how many judges and stewards are actually going to show up for a competition either...there's no penalty besides terrible karma for registering to judge and deciding you want to sleep in instead.

Additionally, most judges, including myself, want some kind of incentive to spend our own money and time for travel to judge these competitions beyond the BJCP experience points. I, personally, enjoy judging and talking about beer with like-minded people for hours. The carrot for 2015 is a nice one from the AHA, but I'm not sure that will be the deciding factor for many judges.

I could be completely wrong but knowing other judges, I don't think that is the case. I'm actually considering AHA membership, but I do appreciate your offer. It's hard for me to justify spending $50+ on a membership but I do enjoy Zymurgy and I grudgingly admit that homebrewers need an national advocacy group and at this point its the AHA.

Actually, 10-12 is not a reasonable number of beers for a flight. Last year, we didn't do more than 8 in Milwaukee. A lot of competitions are moving to more sessions when possible to reduce the number of beers in a flight. More sessions can also make the competition move more quickly, keep the judges engaged, etc.

On a separate note, I've had conversations with local judges in the past few weeks that I'd be in favor of moving to a mini-bos format for at least the final round (if not both rounds). Basically, for the final round, have three pairs of judges. Each pairing gets 12 of the beers and picks the top three. No scoresheets at all. Then, those top three get pushed onto the category BOS, fresh bottles, the ranking judges for the category. Essentially, at least for the finals, your beer would be judged straight up, side by side within the category. What are the thoughts on a format like that, at least for the final round?

 

[jaydog2314]

Received my email. Got my 4 entries in my primary location! Haven't attempted payment yet though.

 

[microbusbrewery]

Got my email around 11:30MT and my first and last names are in the R's. I registered for and drew out for three entries, all at my primary site.


http://microbusbrewery.org