Newbie Cider Questions for a First Timer Who Doesn't Drink Hard Cider...

[pshankstar]

My best friend (more like a brother) would like to learn how to make hard cider. He doesn't like beer, but is always a good sport to try my home brews. Since I have been brewing beers for a little over a year, he has asked me to help him out since he doesn't have any equipment or knowledge, but would like to learn and eventually by the equipment. With that being said here come my questions.

Can I simply buy good quality apple cider and make a small 2-2.5 gallon batch in my mr. beer fermenter (used for experiments and trail runs) as my first attempt at making cider? If so, is it as simple as placing the apple cider in the fermenter and pitching the yeast? Or do I need to simmer or boil the juice for a period of time and add anything to it? After a few weeks (3-4), I could simply bottle it right? Without a secondary I understand it may be cloudy. Or does cider need to ferment for a longer period of time? I know a hydrometer reading will tell me when it's done, but I'm just curious to know roughly how long it takes to ferment. When I go to bottle it, would I use a sugar drops/carbonation tablets like I would when bottling home brew? Or is there another method or ingredient to bottling hard cider?

Once I have at least one or two batches done using my mr. beer fermenter and want to move into making a 5 gallon batch, is it ok to ferment it in my bucket (6.5 gallons)? I believe have read that Yooper has fermented beer, cider and wine in plastic buckets without flavors mixing into each other. If I should designate a bucket for just cider I will, but figured I would ask. Is there a really good reason to have to use a secondary, or is it just for clarity? Or could I possibly move it to the bottling bucket as the secondary until it's ready to be bottled?

Thank you all in advance! CHEERS!

 

[turbos17]

Two small easy recipes to start with - http://www.perimeterpermaculture.com/resources/

 

[pshankstar]

Two small easy recipes to start with - http://www.perimeterpermaculture.com/resources/

With the first of the two recipes, I would assume since there is no honey the carbonation tablets are needed. Whereas the second one the honey that is added at the beginning carries over and no carbonation tablets are needed. Is that correct? Also, thanks for the quick response!

 

[Maylar]

With the first of the two recipes, I would assume since there is no honey the carbonation tablets are needed. Whereas the second one the honey that is added at the beginning carries over and no carbonation tablets are needed. Is that correct? Also, thanks for the quick response!

Not quite. A cyser (honey and cider) is often not carbonated, so the author didn't list priming sugar. Ciders typically (but not always) are carbonated.

Those recipes are very simplistic and don't address things like yeast selection and nutrients and temperature, all of which will influence the final product.

But yes, the basic process is to just add yeast to apple juice and wait.

 

[pshankstar]

Not quite. A cyser (honey and cider) is often not carbonated, so the author didn't list priming sugar. Ciders typically (but not always) are carbonated.

Those recipes are very simplistic and don't address things like yeast selection and nutrients and temperature, all of which will influence the final product.

But yes, the basic process is to just add yeast to apple juice and wait.

Thanks! I figure I would start off with the Safale US-04 yeast. Would I let it ferment like I would with home brews? My basement stays around 66-68 degrees currently so I would assume for fermentation this would be ok, right? Also, I assume the juice needs to warm up to at least room temperature before you pitch the yeast, right? Otherwise it would just shock it I would think.

Does this all seem to be ok? Plus the bottling part I mentioned in my initial post? I keep reading about possible bombs and what not. I'm not sure if there is a bigger possibly of bottle bombs with cider or not.

 

[TexasDroughtBrewery]

I have the exact same questions so i am just trolling don't mind me.

 

[MarkKF]

Thanks! I figure I would start off with the Safale US-04 yeast. Would I let it ferment like I would with home brews? My basement stays around 66-68 degrees currently so I would assume for fermentation this would be ok, right? Also, I assume the juice needs to warm up to at least room temperature before you pitch the yeast, right? Otherwise it would just shock it I would think.

I use S-04 and my basement gets down to 58 so temp. is o.k.
I also use a yeast starter and put it in the basement so 24 hrs later the fermenter and starter are same temp.

 

[Yooper]

I don't know if you've already seen this (forgive me if you have), but this could be helpful and should answer any questions you may have.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=508303

 

[pshankstar]

I don't know if you've already seen this (forgive me if you have), but this could be helpful and should answer any questions you may have.



https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=508303

Thanks Yoopers I did read that and it was a big help, thanks for writing that. One thing I'm not too sure on is whether or not to use the carbonation tablets (instead of priming sugar) like you can use for beer. Or using priming sugar. It seems like there are a lot of concerns with bottle bombs and what not. So I would like to make sure before I have a mess in my basement.

Sorry to be a pain this part doesn't seem to be clear in everything I've read.

 

[turbos17]

Not quite. A cyser (honey and cider) is often not carbonated, so the author didn't list priming sugar. Ciders typically (but not always) are carbonated.



Those recipes are very simplistic and don't address things like yeast selection and nutrients and temperature, all of which will influence the final product.



But yes, the basic process is to just add yeast to apple juice and wait.

These were meant for easy starter recipes which he was asking for. Both of which I have tired and know other who have. The results were fine and taste good. Now I am fine tweaking them with other yeast, priming sugar, and adding cinnamon, or vanilla to the secondary.

 

[turbos17]

Bottle bombs only happen when you use inferior glass or too much sugar from what I have read (and I have read a ton).

 

[TRueff]

You can go real cheap and just get yeast and airlock. Buy a bottle of apple juice (glass bottle like 1 gallon martinelli they sell at wholefoods) and ferment the juice in its own bottle. I save the glass gallon bottles from the AJ I buy and use them for small, 1 gal experimental batches. My advice would be to start that way, buy 2-3 gallons, and try out a couple of recipes simultaneously. That way you can learn and see which recipe you prefer before scaling up and investing more $$$ CHEERS!

 

[pshankstar]

You can go real cheap and just get yeast and airlock. Buy a bottle of apple juice (glass bottle like 1 gallon martinelli they sell at wholefoods) and ferment the juice in its own bottle. I save the glass gallon bottles from the AJ I buy and use them for small, 1 gal experimental batches. My advice would be to start that way, but 2-3 gallons, and try out a couple of recipes simultaneously. That way you can learn and see which recipe you prefer before scaling up and investing more $$$ CHEERS!

Good idea!! Do you use a half a packet of dry yeast for a one gallon batch? I have an extra packet of Safale US-05 in the fridge as a backup but it seems like many prefer the 04 dry yeast instead. I guess I'll have to run out and get some 04 too.

Thanks!! [emoji106]

 

[turbos17]

^ go a full packet they are cheap and risk storage and contamination issues

 

[pshankstar]

Well I wanted to share an update on my first attempt. I went to our local apple orchard and purchased two and a half gallons of fresh apple cider (UV Pasteurized). I started to fill a new (cleaned and sanitized) three gallon carboy I purchased for small experimental batches. I only filled it with 2.25 gallons b/c my little girls wanted some of the cider to drink themselves. Note to self, buy extra apple cider for the kids.

Anyways, I placed the cider in the fermenter around 4pm to let it warm up some. I also tapped the dry yeast to the side to try and make them the same temperature. I waited until 10:30PM to pitch the yeast and had activity this morning around 8am.

I took the OG reading before pitching the yeast (poured a sample into my hydrometer jar) earlier in the afternoon to let that come up to room temp too. the OG was at 1.048. I'll leave the cider in the carboy for at least two weeks (maybe three weeks) before I move it over to my old Mr. Beer fermenter as the secondary. At this point, I will take a gravity reading to see where its at. This way the cider can clear a little more and it's easier to bottle when ready instead of dealing with my large bottling bucket.

How does this sound to everyone? I think this is a good plan for the first batch attempt and see how it goes. If it's a success then I will look into making some adjustments or changes (honey, brown sugar, fruit, etc...).