Newbie building a keggle, stop the madness!

[57plymouth]

I got the hookup on a keg. A buddy had one in his garage from an aborted hot rod build. It was destined to be a gas tank, but it never happened. It's mine for all of $7!

I'm supposed to have it Monday. I'm in the planning phase of my keggle. I'm an extract brewer now, but I'm headed to partial mash, which of course leads to all grain. I'm working on converting an old orange cooler into a mash tun.

Back to the keggle.

This will be my primary kettle. I'm not stepping up to a two kettle system because 1: I can't afford it and 2: I don't know how to use it (yet).

I'm looking at a stainless valve kit from Bargain Fittings unless I can piece it together at my local Grangier (not likely). I'll probably build my own dip tube, with a stainless scrubby on the bottom to act like a filter. I'd like to put in a thermometer, but I'm not sure about it right now.

I know how to mig very well, and I welded the stainless exhaust on my Lil Red Express truck build a few years back. I could go with a welded bung instead of the weldless fittings. If you had the option, would you weld or use a weldless setup?

I'm up in the air about wort chilling. I like the principle of Bobby_M's counterflow, but I'm not sure that I wouldn't do as good with an immersion chiller. If I go immersion, should I mount it permanently in the keggle and connect it through or just make one to dip in place that is not attached.

I know it's a lot of questions, but I promise I'll ask more and post poorly lit pictures in the future.

 

[mmonacel]

Interesting - I never considered the possibility of securing an IC in place. it might make cleaning the kettle a pain in the ass and/or get in the way of normal stirring, etc. If you can get around those issues however, it sounds very interesting indeed I'd say.

 

[57plymouth]

Maybe what I mean was not well communicated. Probably...

I've seen immersion chillers installed in place in other keggles here. They look like they are retained with compression nuts so they can be removed.

I can see how an immersion chiller could get in the way of stirring up a whirlpool though.

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

Go immersion chiller IMO. Dont fix it to you keg permanently. You want to be able to pull that sucker out.

How you planning to cut your keg open? I tried the angle grinder and completely butchered the scrap keg i had laying around. Now I am scared to tackle the new keg I have sitting in my garage so it sits there until I build up some more courage.

 

[whoneedsabeer]

I think what you're seeing isn't an immersion chiller, but a RIMS system. Although it's the same animal, but with the RIMS, the copper is used for heating rather than cooling.

I'd go with the removable IC as well. There's no reason I can think of to have it attached.

If you go with the angle grinder, you can make a jig for it. When I cut mine out, I cut a small opening at first to practice. Then once I had the idea down, I cut my larger circle, and it came out fine.

Barginfittings.com is great. He'll help you figure out what you need if you have questions.

Good luck!

 

[57plymouth]

Oh! A RIMS. Another device I do not yet understand.

I have a buddy with a plasma cutter that I need to take some car show tickets to. If he can't do it I figured I'd use an air saw. It would take longer than a grinder, but it be easy to get it nice.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I think what you're seeing isn't an immersion chiller, but a RIMS system. Although it's the same animal, but with the RIMS, the copper is used for heating rather than cooling.

I'd go with the removable IC as well. There's no reason I can think of to have it attached.

If you go with the angle grinder, you can make a jig for it. When I cut mine out, I cut a small opening at first to practice. Then once I had the idea down, I cut my larger circle, and it came out fine.

Barginfittings.com is great. He'll help you figure out what you need if you have questions.

Good luck!

Actually the coil you see in most vessels is a HERMs coil, but you are right on all other accounts.

Ed

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Given the choice, I would have a couple stainless steel couplings welded in the keg.
But it needs to be welded correctly.


One for a valve/siphon tube and one for a siteglass. A thermometer is optional and not really needed for a dedicated boil kettle. If you plan to use it for heating water for steeping grain etc... the thermo will come in handy

Ed

 

[whoneedsabeer]

Actually the coil you see in most vessels is a HERMs coil, but you are right on all other accounts.

Ed

Yeah - That's what I said.

Get those two mixed up all the time.

 

[57plymouth]

What do you mean by welded correctly? As long as it is a solid bead that does not leak it should be GTG, right?

 

[Ohio-Ed]

What do you mean by welded correctly? As long as it is a solid bead that does not leak it should be GTG, right?

Technically... you are correct. Even if there is sugaring on the inside, which is difficult to clean and holds bacteria, a lot of folks say, it's OK because the boil kills all.

Preferably, it would be TIG welded and back gassed to prevent sugaring.
Most welders are really only concerned about what the side of the weld they can see looks like... In this case, the backside is important too.

I am not a welder, but after a ton of research and talking to a bunch of welders in my area... I ended up with mediocre results.

You mentioned you are a welder, so this may be absolutely no issue for you and I certainly don't mean to suggest that it is. But there are bunches of threads here on HBT about welding.

You can look for messages by GreenMonti if you want to see what I WISH my welds look like.

 

[JoMarky]

I just got my weldless ball valve and thermometer/sight glass combo fighting today that I ordered from bargainfittings. I placed the order 2 days ago and it got from Texas to upstate NY in that time. I highly recommend buying from him, I looked into piecing it myself together, but it was cheaper and less of a headache to just get the kits.

I've been using a simple DIY Immersion Chiller and love it. I have well water so its always cold. 40 bucks for the copper, 10 bucks for the various fittings, and 10 minutes of soldering work. I don't see any advantage to not keeping it a completely separate piece though.

 

[57plymouth]

Looking at several websites, and I don't see what I'm looking for. I'm leaning towards welding in a bung. (I may pay someone to do it, I may do it myself, dunno) I don't see any keggle kits that are designed for welding in. Only weldless kits.

Suggestions?

 

[Bobby_M]

There's really no kit if you're welding. What you want are 1/2" NPT couplings.

 

[gunner65]

I got my stainless couplers from ebay just search 1/2 npt coupler

 

[Yuri_Rage]

You really ought to back gas the weld (purge the side opposite the torch). If you don't, you'll wish you'd gone weldless. The result will be a permanent, rusty, black bunch of porous junk that, while it doesn't pose a sanitation threat on the hot side, will make you fight to keep it clean and free of corrosion.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Looking at several websites, and I don't see what I'm looking for. I'm leaning towards welding in a bung. (I may pay someone to do it, I may do it myself, dunno) I don't see any keggle kits that are designed for welding in. Only weldless kits.

Suggestions?

I don't know of any "welded" kits.

Most folks have 1/2" Stainless Steel couplings welded in. You can then thread a valve on the outside and a siphon tube on the inside.

If you don't need threads on the inside (like for a site glass), you can have a 1/2 coupling welded in.

I have bought 1/2" SS Couplings, and close nipples from Murray Equipment you can also get them from Bargain Fittings.
I bought 3 piece SS Ball Valves from Grainger. Jaybird is a vendor here on HBT and put up an add this week for ss ball valves.

 

[GreenMonti]

You really ought to back gas the weld (purge the side opposite the torch). If you don't, you'll wish you'd gone weldless. The result will be a permanent, rusty, black bunch of porous junk that, while it doesn't pose a sanitation threat on the hot side, will make you fight to keep it clean and free of corrosion.

+1

I know how to mig very well, and I welded the stainless exhaust on my Lil Red Express truck build a few years back. I could go with a welded bung instead of the weldless fittings. If you had the option, would you weld or use a weldless setup?

I would go welded. Hands down. If your like me and you like to keep your money local. Try and find the fittings at a local hydraulic shop but don't waste your time at Parker fittings. Ouch. My local Parker wants $22 for a 1/2" SS coupling. The "Fittings" shop gets $3.22 for the same fitting only in 316 not 304. The local home brew shop wants 4 bucks for a 304 fitting.

As others have mentioned, I am not aware of any weld kits. My LHS gets 12 bucks for the coupling, nipple, and ball valve in a package. IIRC the valve is brass.

I am not trying to disrespect you in any way here. You say you can MIG very well. I understand that exhaust tubing is close to the wall thickness of a keegle. Have you ever had to blend a thicker member to a thin member? If so, how much have you done? MIG will most certainly get the job done but.....you will leave yourself open to leaks. Pin holes in the weld that you can't see until you fill it up with water for a leak test. Now you have water inside the material your welding and even if you do purge the back side, once you hit the trigger you will vaporize the water. That will put oxygen in the weld area making your purge worthless. At least from an internal stand point. Granted, we are talking about making beer here. Your keg doesn't have to fly, just not leak. Do you have a way to purge the backside, and do you have the means or the money/want to practice?

Off topic but, I DIG the little red express trucks. I is a Mopar boy. IIRC that truck would beat the corvette in the quarter the year it came out. Maybe a pic of it could grace the thread?

 

[HABIT]

I think the OP is talking about an OLD STYLE Bosh keg and NOT the newer style Sanke Kegs. The older style kegs were and still are very popular on hot rods, dune buggys and rat rods. I think when he said BUNG it was a give away.
Heres a couple pics of the different kegs maybe the OP will chime in . . .

P.S. If its the "Old Style" keg personally I WOULD NOT weld the bung and turn it into a keggle. Pay the deposit and get a sanke keg from somewhere else. Just my $.02 PM me and depending on the shipping cost it might be worth while for me to swap it out for you. But your in S.C. and I'm close to Detroit.


OLD STLYE

[/IMG]



NEW STYLE

[/IMG]

 

[GreenMonti]

I think the OP is talking about an OLD STYLE Bosh keg and NOT the newer style Sanke Kegs. The older style kegs were and still are very popular on hot rods, dune buggys and rat rods. I think when he said BUNG it was a give away.

I had that thought, but it doesn't mean he doesn't want to use it.

 

[HABIT]

You have a point. I was just saying personally they would be more valuable for other things in the brewery then chopping them up and making a stock pot out of it. I've seen it done and they regretted it later on when they upgraded to 10 gallon batches and beyond. A year later I ended up with it with the intent on using it on a dune buggy but I found a sacraficial old style (crushed) keg and swapped the "bung" insert.
Then again how many of use has used a or multiple $45 glass carboys for making $15 of Apfelwein or wine from Welchs Grape Juice...

Hopefully which ever it is I hope the OP put its to good use and shares ALL the fruits of their labor with the people that mean the most to them . . .

 

[57plymouth]

Boy did this thread get some traffic last night!

I am using a modern sanke keg, not an old style keg.

I do plan to back gas the weld. I plan to run two beads of weld, rotating my start and stop position by 90 degrees to prevent porosity. I have experience welding dissimilar thicknesses of metal. I may preheat the bung to keep from burning through.

I do not plan to use the cut off top as a lid. (I plan to use a different lid and I have an idea that I'm working on for that.) That will give me ample scrap to use as practice media. If I can get the stainless coupler locally for a decent price, I'll grab a few so I can practice. If not, I'll say an extra prayer.

Here's the truck... I should mention that I sold it to a guy in Canada last year.

Here's how it started off.

Here's the wife's project...

And here's my pride and joy...

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Good deal, sounds like you are on the right track.

NICE pictures!

Keep us in the loop on how the keg conversion goes.

Ed

 

[57plymouth]

So, I have not actually made my keg into a keggle. But I was bored in the garage this weekend, so I put it on the old buffing wheel. Not perfect, but it's better.

Before:

After:

 

[ShadowsDeed]

looks good, i did the same thing to mine, got 2 more to do.
:rockin:

 

[GreenMonti]

I don't know how I missed your pics?? That's a nice truck. Well done.