Newbie BIABer looking for guidance

[alby44]

Hello HBTers:

Trying to diagnose issues from my brew day yesterday to improve my process. Decided to go with the AG Pliny version from MoreBeer so I could get comfortable with BIABing and I'm determined to make it work. Couple of things/insights I had afterward:

- Purchased a corona mill that I used to double crush the already milled grains setting it to almost lowest setting (used one washer as a spacer).
- Did a full volume mash/boil with 8.6 gallons during the mash, did mash out to 170 for about 10 minutes, then 'attempted' to squeeze out wort using a lid. Preboil wort was roughly 6.5-7gallons

Lol, I had the steamer basket 'resting' on an angle....what a mistake that was as it shifted then dropped back into the pot...some splashed wort everywhere. Proceeded to clean up and take a Pre-boil sample, 1.030, (that I did not cool;\) for what was to be 1.072-76. Ended up adding 3#s DME to compensate for low pre-boil gravity....after cooling and into bucket, SG was 1.080 (another potential oops with the extra DME added).

Ok, so my own brew day from hell where I'm reminded of my first extract brew day Questions and guidance I was hoping for:

1. Corona Mill - for next batch, should I take out the washer and dial in as close as possible? The grain 'looked' good to me but any advice appreciated
2. Realizing well afterward that I should have cooled pre-boil wort, why was it this LOW? Grains were already crushed and I milled again...was it not close enough? Did water volume have any thing to do with it?

I was able to compensate ok with DME, but am really scratching my head at the low preboil gravity (realizing now that I should have cooled).

Thoughts and/or suggestions is most welcome!

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

first use a real mill if you can

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009601M4I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

mill it fine for bib, something like 5% flower, then use about a pound more base grain than all grain and it should help

 

[wilserbrewer]

first use a real mill if you can

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009601M4I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

mill it fine for bib, something like 5% flower, then use about a pound more base grain than all grain and it should help

A real mill? No thanks, I'll stick w/ my $24 corona mill over the $184 mill you linked. FWIW, one of the reviews of the Millars mill you link the purchaser claimed his grain was coming through the mill uncrushed. Just like the alby44 corona mill, it needed adjustment. Enough about everyones favorite mill, lets work on the problem at hand here.

I would guess your main problem was your crush, or lack of! If you still have the old spent grain, inspect it for uncrushed bits.

Also, using a hydrometer at high temps is not reliable. Correction factors for temp are good to about 90 degrees or so, cool a sample then check moving forward.

This link here at the bottom of the page has a pic of a very nice crush. While your may not look exactly like this, keep crushing until the are very few, to zero unbroken well fractured kernels!!!
http://brewlikeapro.net/maltmilling.html

I would remove the washers, not all corona mills require the use of washers, mine didn't. Crush a handfull at a time, and keep tightening the wing nut and lock nut on the face of the mill until the grain is well crushed, and almost zero whole grains remain. All kernels should be well fractured!!! A common expression is to
crush till you are scared, then tighten a half turn. With BIAB, you don't need to fear a stuck sparge, and can crush a bit finer than other methods. When you reach this point, fully tighten all of the adjustments on the corona mill. Use a pair of pliers if needed to really lock it down.

Higher gravity batches will usually tend to be less efficient, perhaps choosing the Pliny clone as a first batch was a bit ambitious?

If you have some grain, crush a handful at your current mill setting and post a photo?

 

[alby44]

A real mill? No thanks, I'll stick w/ my $24 corona mill over the $184 mill you linked. FWIW, one of the reviews of the Millars mill you link the purchaser claimed his grain was coming through the mill uncrushed. Just like the alby44 corona mill, it needed adjustment. Enough about everyones favorite mill, lets work on the problem at hand here.

I would guess your main problem was your crush, or lack of! If you still have the old spent grain, inspect it for uncrushed bits.

Also, using a hydrometer at high temps is not reliable. Correction factors for temp are good to about 90 degrees or so, cool a sample then check moving forward.

This link here at the bottom of the page has a pic of a very nice crush. While your may not look exactly like this, keep crushing until the are very few, to zero unbroken well fractured kernels!!!
http://brewlikeapro.net/maltmilling.html

I would remove the washers, not all corona mills require the use of washers, mine didn't. Crush a handfull at a time, and keep tightening the wing nut and lock nut on the face of the mill until the grain is well crushed, and almost zero whole grains remain. All kernels should be well fractured!!! A common expression is to
crush till you are scared, then tighten a half turn. With BIAB, you don't need to fear a stuck sparge, and can crush a bit finer than other methods. When you reach this point, fully tighten all of the adjustments on the corona mill. Use a pair of pliers if needed to really lock it down.

Higher gravity batches will usually tend to be less efficient, perhaps choosing the Pliny clone as a first batch was a bit ambitious?

If you have some grain, crush a handful at your current mill setting and post a photo?

Thanks...this is great information and I'll give it a try. Perhaps the grain wasn't as crushed as it should have been. It looks like it should be almost flour-like. Any concerns with grain residue ending up in the boil?

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

part of it's dme and part trub either way its fine

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks...this is great information and I'll give it a try. Perhaps the grain wasn't as crushed as it should have been. It looks like it should be almost flour-like. Any concerns with grain residue ending up in the boil?

I have my corona mill set so that the plates rub when it is empty. It sounds terrible but it does a great job of getting rid of the uncrushed or partially crushed grains.

 

[BigRob]

Friend of mine had a "grain bag" he bought from the LHBS, it was about 4 feet long and 6 inches wide, which is why he was getting 40% mash efficiency. Did you buy a bag that lines the kettle, or something a lot more restrictive?

 

[alby44]

Friend of mine had a "grain bag" he bought from the LHBS, it was about 4 feet long and 6 inches wide, which is why he was getting 40% mash efficiency. Did you buy a bag that lines the kettle, or something a lot more restrictive?

Hmmm...hadn't thought of that. The bag is fairly large and engulfs the inside of the steam basket

 

[jtratcliff]

I have my corona mill set so that the plates rub when it is empty. It sounds terrible but it does a great job of getting rid of the uncrushed or partially crushed grains.

+1 to this...


Also what were your mash temps like? And how long did you mash? Did you maintain steady temps?

 

[alby44]

+1 to this...


Also what were your mash temps like? And how long did you mash? Did you maintain steady temps?

Temps were good...maintained 152 for 60 minutes with recirculating mash (with spoon) 4 times.

Thinking grain is one contributing factor.....but, did my total volume (8.6 gallons) into kettle contribute to low gravity wort? I've used different calculators (both web and excel-based) and while still using some of the same numeric variables (trub loss, evap rate, etc..) I am not getting similar total volume rates.

What are veteran BIABers using to calculate total volume....assuming I'm doing a no-sparge BIAB?

 

[beernut70]

Temps were good...maintained 152 for 60 minutes with recirculating mash (with spoon) 4 times.

Thinking grain is one contributing factor.....but, did my total volume (8.6 gallons) into kettle contribute to low gravity wort? I've used different calculators (both web and excel-based) and while still using some of the same numeric variables (trub loss, evap rate, etc..) I am not getting similar total volume rates.

What are veteran BIABers using to calculate total volume....assuming I'm doing a no-sparge BIAB?

Volume could contribute to the low OG. I usually start with around 7.5 gallons and end up with 6.5-7 gallons for the boil. My grain absorption in my spreadsheet is .05 gallons per pound. I squeeze the bag with some heavy PVC gloves.

Here is my current spreadsheet it's been really accurate for me.

BIAB Spreadsheet

 

[alby44]

Volume could contribute to the low OG. I usually start with around 7.5 gallons and end up with 6.5-7 gallons for the boil. My grain absorption in my spreadsheet is .05 gallons per pound. I squeeze the bag with some heavy PVC gloves.

Here is my current spreadsheet it's been really accurate for me.

BIAB Spreadsheet

From what I've read, standard absorption value is between .1 and .2. Are you using .05 as a value because of the squeeze, which in effect, requires a lower mash/total volume?

If no squeeze should I apply the standard?

 

[beernut70]

I think .1 or .2 is too high. Try plugging .08 into the spreadsheet. I dialed my absorption in and settled on .05 after carefully calculating my volumes over several batches. Now I am always within a point or two with my OG. Honestly a pair of gloves was great investment. PVC Gloves What did you figure the absorption in your batch? What efficiency did you figure? Be careful also some software may figure absorption in quarts per pound.

PS: I wouldn't trade my $30 corona mill for anything.

 

[jtratcliff]

I would blame the crush before the full volume. I do 6 gallon batches and I dough in to about 7 gallons. I dunk sparge in an additional 1.5g.

I do squeeze and I do adjust my absorption rate to account for it in my software (I use brewtarget ). I don't remember what value I use, though.

Once I got my equipment dialed in, the mash wizard in brewtarget works well for me.

 

[alby44]

I think .1 or .2 is too high. Try plugging .08 into the spreadsheet. I dialed my absorption in and settled on .05 after carefully calculating my volumes over several batches. Now I am always within a point or two with my OG. Honestly a pair of gloves was great investment. PVC Gloves What did you figure the absorption in your batch? What efficiency did you figure? Be careful also some software may figure absorption in quarts per pound.

PS: I wouldn't trade my $30 corona mill for anything.

This being my second BIAB batch, I just applied the 'standard' found here on HBT and figured that would result in a 70-72% efficiency. Looking at your calculations and comparing it to the spreadsheet I used, I'm about 1+ gallon more than I should have been. Should have either boiled longer or started with less (than 8.6 gallons)

Generally speaking, it sounds like I should begin with 7.5+ gallons total volume next time to help account for absorption, boil loss, etc...

Agree on the corona mill...definitely like it. Moreso for the DIY aspect...Bought two buckets this weekend (sawed one in half) and voila, my own grain mill and at a fraction of the cost!

 

[beernut70]

I would blame the crush before the full volume. I do 6 gallon batches and I dough in to about 7 gallons. I dunk sparge in an additional 1.5g.

I do squeeze and I do adjust my absorption rate to account for it in my software (I use brewtarget ). I don't remember what value I use, though.

Once I got my equipment dialed in, the mash wizard in brewtarget works well for me.

I agree take a look at your crush. However, every time I have been low since getting my mill was due to volume issues. Worked on dialing that in haven't been low since. Tighten your mill up and keep good notes on volumes and you'll nail it.

 

[2Kegger]

I usually get 70% efficiency. I've recently switched to doing a dunk sparge after the mash. I keep about 2 gallons of hotter water in a cooler. When the mash is over, I dunk the bag in the cooler and let it sit for about 10 minutes, then dump that back in the boil kettle. I think I need to crush even finer.

Also, it's important for the temp to get down before you do a gravity reading. I cooled mine to 75 degrees, and took a reading on my last batch. It was 1.052. After about 10 minutes of letting it sit and cool even more, it was 1.059. There is an app called brewzor calculator (I think that's the name) that will actually correct for temperature. You enter your reading and the temp and it will tell you what the correct gravity is. It does a ton more, but that is one of the calculations in the app.

 

[BigRob]

I get 80%, I assume .75L per KG of grain in absorbtion. Depends how much you squeeze, I also find a mash-out step helps maintain my 80%.

 

[paperairplane]

I do full volume in a keggle. I do not mash out. I hit 70% with no issues at all.

I think for a Pliny clone your volume was probably close, high gravity beer and lots of hops.

Most 5-6% beers I do start with 8 gallons or so. I squeeze some, but not crazy. I have tried dunk and a ghetto batch sparge, didn't seem worth it.

I wear ear plugs when running my corona. It's loud as hell. My plates definitely touch with no grain. Get it right, get it tight. Another half turn and mine probably wouldn't turn at all.

I'm betting you had some dough balls in your bag.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

What are veteran BIABers using to calculate total volume....assuming I'm doing a no-sparge BIAB?

I'm using my own calculator, see signature below.

It's based on the one at biabbrewing.info, which I added a few features for then put online instead of excel spreadsheet.


Lots of good tips so far. I agree with a lot of them. Volume issues can affect OG a lot more than an efficiency discrepancy can. I get about 72% atm, working on grinding a bit finer next time and seeing how much that raises mine.

 

[beernut70]

I'm using my own calculator, see signature below.

It's based on the one at biabbrewing.info, which I added a few features for then put online instead of excel spreadsheet.

Lots of good tips so far. I agree with a lot of them. Volume issues can affect OG a lot more than an efficiency discrepancy can. I get about 72% atm, working on grinding a bit finer next time and seeing how much that raises mine.

Nice work on the calculator.

From what I've read, standard absorption value is between .1 and .2. Are you using .05 as a value because of the squeeze, which in effect, requires a lower mash/total volume?

I looked last night and I think the .2 is quarts per gallon. That's what I have in brewtarget.

 

[alby44]

I'm using my own calculator, see signature below.

It's based on the one at biabbrewing.info, which I added a few features for then put online instead of excel spreadsheet.


Lots of good tips so far. I agree with a lot of them. Volume issues can affect OG a lot more than an efficiency discrepancy can. I get about 72% atm, working on grinding a bit finer next time and seeing how much that raises mine.

Definitely like the calculator...very user friendly!!