New Member

[Antonio Martinez]

First it's great to see such an active community of BIAB brewers. I've looked around Reddit and another great site Biabrewer.info but sadly that last site isn't very active these days. I've had a membership to the site for about a year but haven't been on in a while. While I was looking into diy vs commercial ebiab setups I come across short circuited brewers on YouTube that reminded me of this site. So for my question what do you guys think about the electric options out there (induction, commercial products, diy)? I mainly aim for 3 gallons into the fermenter but don't want to rule out a system capable of something larger as I do enjoy RIS and big Belgian beers that I would like to brew. I'm currently using a homemade bag and bayou classic in a 5.5 gal SS Brewtech kettle. There are no 240v plugs in my garage but I'm not opposed to wiring one since my panel has the capacity and unused space. My main reason for wanting to go electric is to get indoors so the weather doesn't decide when I brew and I feel like repeatability might be easier to achieve in terms of mash temps with electric systems using a PID. Sorry for the long post.

 

[IslandLizard]

A belated welcome to HBT!

I use a $180 Avantco IC3500 induction plate in the kitchen and love it. I do mostly 5.5 gallon batches, conventional mash tun, not BIAB. A triple ply kettle helps with even heating, but a single ply should work equally well. Don't direct heat with a bag touching the bottom, it will melt/scorch.

5.5 gallon may be a bit small for full volume 3 gallon batch BIAB mashes, but workable if you top up with a sparge.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Welcome,

While 240v is typically a better option, as you are primarily doing 3G batches, using 120v / 2250w element on a 20 amp circuit might be an option considering ease of using an existing circuit and cheaper components GFI etc...

 

[Antonio Martinez]

A belated welcome to HBT!

I use a $180 Avantco IC3500 induction plate in the kitchen and love it. I do mostly 5.5 gallon batches, conventional mash tun, not BIAB. A triple ply kettle helps with even heating, but a single ply should work equally well. Don't direct heat with a bag touching the bottom, it will melt/scorch.

5.5 gallon may be a bit small for full volume 3 gallon batch BIAB mashes, but workable if you top up with a sparge.

Thanks for the welcome. I've looked at the Avantco cooktops before but I've seen mixed reviews. I'm guessing you're happy with yours or would you look at another brand? Yeah depending on the target gravity I've wound up with less than 3 gallons. Not a huge deal as I don't have anyone else in the house that I have to share with...lol. I'm looking at picking up the 10 gal SS Brewtech kettle for the bigger beers I brew. Appreciate your thoughts.

Cheers
Tony

 

[Antonio Martinez]

Welcome,

While 240v is typically a better option, as you are primarily doing 3G batches, using 120v / 2250w element on a 20 amp circuit might be an option considering ease of using an existing circuit and cheaper components GFI etc...

I know it's likely overkill and may not even be possible on smaller batches but I've heard of people building 240v/50a setups. This would allow me to use the outlet my stove is occupying.
What are your thoughts on that? I'm not opposed to stepping up some equipment for the ability to easily dial in temps and maintain them.

Cheers
Tony

 

[Cato1507]

Thanks for the welcome. I've looked at the Avantco cooktops before but I've seen mixed reviews. I'm guessing you're happy with yours or would you look at another brand? Yeah depending on the target gravity I've wound up with less than 3 gallons. Not a huge deal as I don't have anyone else in the house that I have to share with...lol. I'm looking at picking up the 10 gal SS Brewtech kettle for the bigger beers I brew. Appreciate your thoughts.

Cheers
Tony

I use the Avantco for 3 gal batches in my 5.5 gal Ssbrewtech kettle all the time. No sweat to do a full volume no sparge BIAB. I also have a 7.5 gal Anvil kettle for larger batches or bigger beers.
I too read the mixed reviews, so when I decided to buy it I bought it through Amazon and for like $10 added a 3 year repair/replace warranty on it.
For 3-5 gallon batches this thing rocks. I love the simplicity of brewing.
Pic below is from a 3 gal Altbier batch, full volume no sparge.

 

[Antonio Martinez]

That's a very reasonable price on the warranty for a little piece of mind. I thought about the Anvil kettle too but for the price I feel like the SS might be the better buy. Is that a brew bag? Thinking of picking one up as I like the sturdy handles that you can hook to a pulley like you did. What's the biggest beer you've done on that setup?

Cheers
Tony

 

[Cato1507]

That's a very reasonable price on the warranty for a little piece of mind. I thought about the Anvil kettle too but for the price I feel like the SS might be the better buy. Is that a brew bag? Thinking of picking one up as I like the sturdy handles that you can hook to a pulley like you did. What's the biggest beer you've done on that setup?

Cheers
Tony

Yes, a brew bag. I don't do many big beers, but have done a Dubbel and a strong pale ale that were 7.9%, which are BIG beers for me.
Most of what I brew will run in the 5.9- 6.5% range.

 

[doug293cz]

I know it's likely overkill and may not even be possible on smaller batches but I've heard of people building 240v/50a setups. This would allow me to use the outlet my stove is occupying.
What are your thoughts on that? I'm not opposed to stepping up some equipment for the ability to easily dial in temps and maintain them.

Cheers
Tony

You don't have to build a full 50A panel off the bat. You can run 6AWG wire to the panel, and then use fuses/breakers in the panel to allow you to drop wire diameters in the panel. And, with a little planning, it's not to hard to put together a panel that is easily expandable for the future. The big question is whether the 50A outlet is 3 wire or 4 wire. 3 wire does not support 120V circuits in the control panel, but 4 wire does.

Brew on

 

[IslandLizard]

I too read the mixed reviews, so when I decided to buy it I bought it through Amazon and for like $10 added a 3 year repair/replace warranty on it.

That's a good deal on the 'extended' warranty. As long as you don't have to ship it out on your own dime when something goes wrong.

Not sure when I started to have trouble with the fan, perhaps 1 or 2 years in. I have to clean it (dust, grease) and re-oil the bearing about every year or when needed, it starts dragging, you can hear it. Now I use that IC3500 for a lot of other kitchen cooking, large pots of stock, soups, sauces, chili, wokking, preparing yeast starter wort, etc. Last year the internal fuse blew, not sure why, couldn't find any reason, I was just starting to heat strike water, so first I put in a temporary 'fuse' (piece of 24 or 26 ga copper wire), finished the 2 brews, and later replaced that with a slow blow fuse. Still going strong. Would be best to get a better, ball-bearing fan that also fits the duct, haven't found one yet.

 

[IslandLizard]

I've looked at the Avantco cooktops before but I've seen mixed reviews. I'm guessing you're happy with yours or would you look at another brand? Yeah depending on the target gravity I've wound up with less than 3 gallons. Not a huge deal as I don't have anyone else in the house that I have to share with...lol. I'm looking at picking up the 10 gal SS Brewtech kettle for the bigger beers I brew.

As I wrote above, I am happy with the Avantco, for the money it was impossible to beat. The next unit available ran more than twice that price.
Now when you look inside the IC3500 there's not all that much to it, while things could surely be a bit beefier. Then that 50 cent fan (estimated manufacturer's cost) can kill or make the $180 unit obsolete in a jiffy. I'm handy enough to fix those things, but I understand it shouldn't be like that.

If I were to buy another induction plate, I'd probably get the same (I actually was contemplating that idea last year), or get a more powerful, 5500W unit (~$600) or so.

Nothing wrong with 3 gallon batches, I used to split 5-6 gallon batches over two 3.5 gallon bucket fermenters, using different yeasts, hops, additives, etc. No-one wants to get stuck with 5 gallons of a Cucumber Rosemary Saison brewed for an Iron Brewer club competition. Those 2.5 gallons still ended up over-extending their welcome.

That 10 gallon kettle is a good investment, don't go smaller. If you want or need, you can easily brew 5-6 gallon batches with that, using traditional mash using a separate vessel (e.g., cooler) or BIAB with some ingenuity, not doing full volume mashes, and sparge in a bucket. Or split the wort into 2 different batches. Or partigyle.

 

[McKnuckle]

I've also got many batches brewed on an Avantco IC3500. Such a simple way to brew, really, and 2.5 or 3 gallons is my sweet spot also. The IC3500 will easily handle 5 gallon batches too. It also can provide poor man's heat retention for mashing at its lowest temp settings (140-150ºF).

The nice thing is that you can use it with any induction-ready vessel, so you're not locked into a particular kettle the way you are if you install an element. It's also got utility value as a cooktop or alternate source of heat in the brewery if you ultimately mash/boil with something else.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Is that a brew bag? Thinking of picking one up as I like the sturdy handles that you can hook to a pulley like you did.

Cheers
Tony

Ok shameless plug below, now that I have that out of the way...

The handles are a personal preference thing...some like them, some not as much.

One caution is that the handles make for a rather high attachment point on the bag and can be an issue brewing indoors, and can result in the pulley release being above your reach.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/where-did-you-get-your-bag.664160/

 

[MaxStout]

I will attest that having a low attachment point is important with big batches. I use a stand for BIAB, and being able to use a loop of cord in a prusik knot to wrap around the neck of the bag enabled it to be hoisted completely above the wort.

Get a Wilser bag, and one of the ratchet pulleys.

 

[Antonio Martinez]

Ok shameless plug below, now that I have that out of the way...

The handles are a personal preference thing...some like them, some not as much.

One caution is that the handles make for a rather high attachment point on the bag and can be an issue brewing indoors, and can result in the pulley release being above your reach.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/where-did-you-get-your-bag.664160/

I appreciate the heads up on the handles. I've been lifting the bag and letting it drain but I just had back surgery so some of my processes have to change for a bit.

 

[Cato1507]

I appreciate the heads up on the handles. I've been lifting the bag and letting it drain but I just had back surgery so some of my processes have to change for a bit.

Each to his own preference for sure, but I find the handles super easy to use and while not familiar with other ratcheting pulleys, mine has a string attached to the release trigger so it doesn't matter at all how high you hoist.

 

[Antonio Martinez]

Each to his own preference for sure, but I find the handles super easy to use and while not familiar with other ratcheting pulleys, mine has a string attached to the release trigger so it doesn't matter at all how high you hoist.

It definitely seems to me the wilserbags are the best option, I've seen some templates for sewing your own but why when his are available. Do you have a link for the pulley you use?

Cheers
Tony

 

[Antonio Martinez]

I will attest that having a low attachment point is important with big batches. I use a stand for BIAB, and being able to use a loop of cord in a prusik knot to wrap around the neck of the bag enabled it to be hoisted completely above the wort.

View attachment 623975

Get a Wilser bag, and one of the ratchet pulleys.

I like the frame you have there, was thinking about doing something similar. Is it attached to the bench or freestanding? I've got some scrap wood laying around but want to keep it from being too bulky so that you can tuck it away when I'm done. Unfortunately my ladder isn't tall enough or I'd go that route.

 

[Antonio Martinez]

As I wrote above, I am happy with the Avantco, for the money it was impossible to beat. The next unit available ran more than twice that price.
Now when you look inside the IC3500 there's not all that much to it, while things could surely be a bit beefier. Then that 50 cent fan (estimated manufacturer's cost) can kill or make the $180 unit obsolete in a jiffy. I'm handy enough to fix those things, but I understand it shouldn't be like that.

If I were to buy another induction plate, I'd probably get the same (I actually was contemplating that idea last year), or get a more powerful, 5500W unit (~$600) or so.

Nothing wrong with 3 gallon batches, I used to split 5-6 gallon batches over two 3.5 gallon bucket fermenters, using different yeasts, hops, additives, etc. No-one wants to get stuck with 5 gallons of a Cucumber Rosemary Saison brewed for an Iron Brewer club competition. Those 2.5 gallons still ended up over-extending their welcome.

That 10 gallon kettle is a good investment, don't go smaller. If you want or need, you can easily brew 5-6 gallon batches with that, using traditional mash using a separate vessel (e.g., cooler) or BIAB with some ingenuity, not doing full volume mashes, and sparge in a bucket. Or split the wort into 2 different batches. Or partigyle.

I definitely agree with the 10 gallon kettle being the way to go. I should have just got it when I upgraded from a stockpot. Small batches are great since I can brew more often that way. Not saying I'll ever go to a full 5 gallon batch but I the idea of having the option.

 

[MaxStout]

I like the frame you have there, was thinking about doing something similar. Is it attached to the bench or freestanding? I've got some scrap wood laying around but want to keep it from being too bulky so that you can tuck it away when I'm done. Unfortunately my ladder isn't tall enough or I'd go that route.

I attach the frame to a rolling stand with carriage bolts and wingnuts. After use I can easily remove the frame for storage.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...-outside-brew-biab-setup.644438/#post-8216799

 

[Cato1507]

It definitely seems to me the wilserbags are the best option, I've seen some templates for sewing your own but why when his are available. Do you have a link for the pulley you use?

Cheers
Tony

https://www.brewinabag.com/products/pulley-metal-ratchet-250-lbs-capacity

 

[MaxStout]

Wilserbrewer has a deal where you can get a ratchet pulley with a BIAB bag, along with a hops bag. Look for the "grand slam" on his site.

 

[IslandLizard]

I definitely agree with the 10 gallon kettle being the way to go. I should have just got it when I upgraded from a stockpot. Small batches are great since I can brew more often that way. Not saying I'll ever go to a full 5 gallon batch but I the idea of having the option.

If you do mainly 'half batches' the upside of the smaller kettle is that it's easier to handle, move, clean, etc.

I seldomly drag out that 'huge' 15 gallon kettle anymore since 10 gallon batches have become rarer. The 8 gallon kettle I have is actually a little too small for 5.5 gallon batch full boils, 10 gallons is really the best size for those. So I top up with 3rd runnings during the boil, or boil those 3rd runnings down on the stove, and combine when the level in the kettle has dropped an inch.

 

[Stand]

I have a 3 vessel system, but the setup I have for my RIMS tube from Brewhardware.com would work awesome for a 3 gallon system. Inkbird controller and 1650w element would do great.

 

[Mic Carp]

I finally have a bagger pic. Dig my new rig

 

[Antonio Martinez]

I want to thank everyone for chiming in with your thoughts. Now I just have to decide which route to go. I'm leaning towards the induction option and may just stick with refectix to hold mash temps or possibly a ulwd element on 120v circuit in a rims tube. This way nothing in permanently in the kettle and I can still use it on propane when it's nice out or the induction cooktop dies. One more thing, does anyone else's brew bag tend to twist around your mash paddle/spoon when stirring? I thought about making a loop of copper tubing to address this but wasn't sure if someone had a better idea.

Cheers,
Tony

 

[wilserbrewer]

Never had a bag twist up in the mash paddle.

Perhaps try back and forth strokes across the bottom of the kettle, or better yet perhaps a bag that fits your kettle properly

 

[doug293cz]

My bag will twist up when I stir without any grain, but once I add the grain - no problem. When stirring the water (to get better temp readings) I'll stir in one direction until it starts to wrap, and then reverse directions, also throw in some back and forth.

Brew on :mug;

 

[Cato1507]

I want to thank everyone for chiming in with your thoughts. Now I just have to decide which route to go. I'm leaning towards the induction option and may just stick with refectix to hold mash temps or possibly a ulwd element on 120v circuit in a rims tube. This way nothing in permanently in the kettle and I can still use it on propane when it's nice out or the induction cooktop dies. One more thing, does anyone else's brew bag tend to twist around your mash paddle/spoon when stirring? I thought about making a loop of copper tubing to address this but wasn't sure if someone had a better idea.

Cheers,
Tony

No, mine doesn't twist at all when stirring. I used to use 4 of those spring bookbinder clasps on it but then the top wouldn't sit flush.
I now just run a cord through my straps where they hang over the side of the kettle and tie the cord snugly and everything stays in place, plus the top fits tight for the mash.

 

[Cato1507]

Never had a bag twist up in the mash paddle.

Perhaps try back and forth strokes across the bottom of the kettle, or better yet perhaps a bag that fits your kettle properly

What @wilserbrewer says. I go back and forth and or side to side to stir the mash.

 

[Antonio Martinez]

My bag will twist up when I stir without any grain, but once I add the grain - no problem. When stirring the water (to get better temp readings) I'll stir in one direction until it starts to wrap, and then reverse directions, also throw in some back and forth.

Brew on :mug;

That's pretty much the way I deal with it too. Just thought a loop of copper to match the inside diameter of the pot inside the bag might fix it.

 

[Antonio Martinez]

Never had a bag twist up in the mash paddle.

Perhaps try back and forth strokes across the bottom of the kettle, or better yet perhaps a bag that fits your kettle properly

The proper fitting bag is probably a lot of the issue. I had the wife sew the one I currently use and we kind of winged it so it's a bit oversized.

 

[wilserbrewer]

That's pretty much the way I deal with it too. Just thought a loop of copper to match the inside diameter of the pot inside the bag might fix it.

Perhaps that would work splendidly...just kidding.

Your kind of missing the whole BIAB philosophy of “less is more”.

I frown upon adding anything to my process unless it is either proven to make brewing more easy or fun, or proven to make better beer.

If it doesn’t meet that criteria, I don’t do it!!!

 

[Mic Carp]

Perhaps that would work splendidly...just kidding.

Your kind of missing the whole BIAB philosophy of “less is more”.

I frown upon adding anything to my process unless it is either proven to make brewing more easy or fun, or proven to make better beer.

If it doesn’t meet that criteria, I don’t do it!!!

I gotta agree. I did my first BIAB yesterday, so im no expert by any stretch, but compared to extract with steeping grains, it was WAY easier and therefore more fun. A lot less cleanup, no sticky syrup stringing all over the place etc. the KISS method is where it’s at imho.

 

[Antonio Martinez]

Perhaps that would work splendidly...just kidding.

Your kind of missing the whole BIAB philosophy of “less is more”.

I frown upon adding anything to my process unless it is either proven to make brewing more easy or fun, or proven to make better beer.

If it doesn’t meet that criteria, I don’t do it!!!

I agree with the less is more idea. It was more of a minor nuisance than something I feel like has to be changed. Like someone posted earlier, it's likely due to the bag being oversized. We all probably need to be saved from some ideas though lol. Most brewers I know just like to tinker with stuff and I get caught up with shiny new toys/ideas too. Appreciate you guys realing me back in. [emoji481]