New electric build(rims, BK, HLT pumps etc) : need advice

[Flomaster]

Ok my end result is as follows :
BK element of 5500 watts
HLT element of 4500 or 5500 Watts
RIMs tube (I already have a 4500 Watt ULD the currently running on 120V)
Two pumps
E stop
Alarm
Volt meter
Amp meter
Lights for all elements and pumps
Amber SYL-2352 PIDS

what I currently have: rims tube, 1 auber 2352 pid, 1 40amp ssr, and 24*18*8 control box with 2 DIN rails.

I'm thinking I won't be able to do the whole build at once so I was thinking I could add another pid, ssr, probe, and element to my current toolbox and have two different inputs from two different circuits for my rims and HLT running both a separate on 120V circuit and I'll still boil using natural gas.

I think I can use one pid for the BK and the HLT to save some money. any input would be good.

Can anyone draw a wiring diagram for me?
Anyone have any input on things I might want to change?

-=Jason=-

 

[Flomaster]

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[Flomaster]

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[sennister]

My only concern based on what I read is that you said you wanted to use two inputs from two circuits. By that I assume you are saying you are going to have 2 120V inputs from two separate circuits into your panel. I can only assume because you didn't specifically say. While that can be fine, the key word is CAN. You said your RIMS tube is running on 120V. OK that part is fine. What you left off is what the point of the second input is from a separate circuit. Since you didn't say I can only assume you are trying to do one of two things.

1. Use the second input to power the HLT element at 120V

2. Use the second input to power the HLT element at 240V

Can you do option 1, sure. Make sure the inputs are GFCI rated and you should be fine. Can you do option 2. Ahhh, NO!!! While it is true that a 240V circuit is 2 hots from a 120V the issue is that there are two different version of 120V in a panel. lets call them 120 A and 120 B. So in a panel as you down the row of breakers every other breaker would be on A side and the one next to is a B side. This is why a 240V breaker takes up two spots in a panel. They are double thickness. Just because you are on separate circuits doesn't mean that the two are A and B. You could have two 120V A circuits or two 120V B circuits. It won't work.

If you are trying to do option 1 then I don't think a 5500W element running at 120V would heat water in a HLT in the amount of time that would be acceptable. By running a 240V element at 120V cuts the output in 1/4 so that 5500W element would only be putting out 1375W which is fine for a RIMS tube but not enough to heat 5 or 10 gallons in a HLT unless you plan on sitting around for hours.

 

[Flomaster]

oh crap... some times my mind is running faster than I can type on my phone.


until I can build the entire thing into 1 panel I'd like to use my existing RIMS toolbox running on 120V now and add another 120V source, SSR, and PID to control my HLT while still using my NG burner for the boil. I can use my burner to get the temp hot and maintain my desired sparge temp via the new PID, would that even be worth it?

the end game will be all elements running on 240V not sure if I need to go 30A or 50A with this as I'll never have the HLT and BK running at once, but I"ll have the Rims and HLT running at the same time as well as a pump or two.

-=Jason=-

 

[sennister]

oh crap... some times my mind is running faster than I can type on my phone.


until I can build the entire thing into 1 panel I'd like to use my existing RIMS toolbox running on 120V now and add another 120V source, SSR, and PID to control my HLT while still using my NG burner for the boil. I can use my burner to get the temp hot and maintain my desired sparge temp via the new PID, would that even be worth it?

the end game will be all elements running on 240V not sure if I need to go 30A or 50A with this as I'll never have the HLT and BK running at once, but I"ll have the Rims and HLT running at the same time as well as a pump or two.

-=Jason=-

Ok so the other PID is controlling a NG Burner. I haven't looked at what type of PID is used for controlling a NG burner so I can't say for certain on how this would work. My concern is that there are different types of PIDs and it might be a case where you need a different PID to do the NG side of things than what you need later to go electric.

As far as 30-50. I would look at cost. If it isn't a long run, you will never kick yourself later on by going 50A and finding out that you only use 30A. However if you go 30A it will be expensive to try and go back later and move to 50A should you need it.

While the most common reason to go 50A that I see mentioned is that you want to do back to back brews. I went 50A not because of this. I did it because I want to start applying heat to the BK as soon as the element and temp probe is covered. Hold the temp just shy of boil while doing my sparge. Because of this I could in theory have both the HLT element firing to maintain sparge temp and the BK element firing to hold the wort close to boil temp oh and a couple pumps running off the same circuit. It might have been OK but I went on the side of caution and bumped the system to 50A. I also am going BCS not PID controlled and by going 50A I don't have to mess with an element select switch. I can select Auto on the panel and run everything from the BCS.

 

[Flomaster]

I'd use pid #2 to maintain HLT yelps via the 4500/5500 Watt element running on the 120 volt circuit.

While our might take forever to go from 60F° water to 175 with it I can use my BK to heat the water to say that 150F° and then pump over to my HLT for to finish it off.

Basically I'm wanting to but this in pieces and I was thinking I could purchase this and work with it until I go full on electric.

-=Jason=-

 

[sennister]

Ok, I get it. Just using the 5500W element running at 1375W (120V) to maintain heat. Then you are probably right, it would work for maintaining the temp.

As for schematic, at least initially I would duplicate what you have in your RIMS controller. You already have a panel and circuit design that you are used to running. I would keep them completely separate in terms of power. The benefit for now is that they are interchangeable while you work out collecting all the bits to build a complete electric consolidated panel. While you could divide the guts and run them in the same physical box, I would keep them separate to avoid confusion and possibly cutting openings in what could be your final panel that you may not want in the end. For a simple single PID panel I have seen all kinds of things used. old Computer cases, tackle boxes, old tool boxes, ect. Once you have everything collected, then you have one big project to consolidate everything.

 

[Flomaster]

Ok, I get it. Just using the 5500W element running at 1375W (120V) to maintain heat. Then you are probably right, it would work for maintaining the temp.

As for schematic, at least initially I would duplicate what you have in your RIMS controller. You already have a panel and circuit design that you are used to running. I would keep them completely separate in terms of power. The benefit for now is that they are interchangeable while you work out collecting all the bits to build a complete electric consolidated panel. While you could divide the guts and run them in the same physical box, I would keep them separate to avoid confusion and possibly cutting openings in what could be your final panel that you may not want in the end. For a simple single PID panel I have seen all kinds of things used. old Computer cases, tackle boxes, old tool boxes, ect. Once you have everything collected, then you have one big project to consolidate everything.

exactly what I was thinking I already have a RIMS toolbox and I was going to just build another for my HLT like my rims system.

but i would like a diagram for the whole thing with bells and whistles for the final control panel. so I can start to put together my parts list.

-=Jason=-

 

[Flomaster]

little bump to the thread.

I acquired a few items from SWMBO off my Amazon Wish List

5500W camco element and 40A ssr. it looks like a PID, probe, and element enclosure are all I need to get my HLT electric

-=Jason=-