Need your opinion on a brewpub idea.

Brewer's Friend 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Grinder12000

Grinder12000

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
2,996
Reaction score
50
Location
Columbus WI
Community background.

Small farm town that is slowly getting trendier . . or at least trying. We had a major motion picture filmed here (+$200 million) and are getting more and more tourists . . .but that will endin 2 or 3 years (movie comes out Jult 1st).

ANYWAY - BEER - there is not ONE place that sells decent beer besides the bowling alley which has a few but . . . . has a bowling alley atmosphere.

So, I have this opportunity to manage a bar. Right now the place is a Miller Bud smoke drunk fest dive but the place could be pretty nice once you clean it up and paint and remodel. 100 year old building kept in great shape. The owner of the building would do all the remodeling - basically MY call on what needs to be done.

Being a home brewer I'm getting a lot of pressure from major town people to open a brewpub. Looks easy from THEIR side but in reality going from a 5 gallon serious hobby to a full blown 7BBL brewpub is rather daunting and frankly - not a serious idea.

So I was thinking - why not have a bar that has 10 or 12 local award winning micro brews on tap from 6 or 7 local places and then augment with one tap with brews that "I" make (just for ****s and giggles and yes I've look into regulations)

Sort of like a golf course with 18 greatest hole clones - this would be a craft bar with many local award winning brews. Perhaps a rotation of sorts as new brews pop up. The microbrews would get free advertising AND be able to spread their brew.

Have any of you heard of such a thing?? I have a pretty good location.

Just thinking out loud here.
 
What will the people of the town drink, once tourism dies down and you don't have the out of towners, it is the people of the town who will be drinking your beer. As much as we like to we can't hoist our love of good beer on them. Also what kind of price point are you talking per pint, my experience in some rural areas leads me to conclude that they love cheap beer in farm country. My uncle raises horses in deleware, and drinks at the local VFW $1 beers and super cheap shots. There is a brew pub the next town over with great beers, but with the draw of $1 budweisers, guess who isn't going.
 
True - I have thought of this. The thing that I keep coming up with AND that the Mayor, econ advisor and City Admin keep saying is that there is no place in town for adults to go and gave a drink. There are plenty of places with $1 pints and loud music and 15 TV's.

But no place to get good beer in a smoke free environment in a friendly non-aggressive.

It's got me thinking.

My feeling is that this area is ripe with people that like good beer. Many microbreweries that are doing well, BUT - not one within 30 miles. It's an odd town. 4000 people and 36 holes of golf courses, I'm 1 block from a Amtrak Station, basically on two highways and right in the middle of the hot area or town that is getting a major face lift
 
Its a good idea. I would go and have a beer there but i would not want to own it. I want to own a brewpub so bad i would run naked through the streets of atlanta after a cold shower.
 
Whatever ya do, as a Wisconsinite, I'll have to kick ya in the jewels if there's not at least one tap pouring New Glarus. ;) :D

I think that, in any other state, that could be a difficult sell or it could be a gem in the rough, it just depends on exactly what the future holds for your small town. In WI specifically... I've noticed a lot of more open-minded folks than many other midwest states. Wisconsinites are an interesting folk - there's the "big city folk" from Milwaukee and Green Bay, then there's the hippy college crowd from Madison... then there's the touristers and the locals in the Delton area.... it's a funky state, and the overall attitude seems to be receptive.

That said, I've not ventured to Columbus yet. If it's anything like *our* Columbus ... um ... run in fear? ;)

Either way, this could be quite the fun opportunity. I, personally, have always wanted to quit my job and run a bar instead. As long as it's not your cash on the bottom line, I would be likely to say "go for it".

Is there a SWMBO, and if so, what is her opinion on the matter? I think that in an issue like this, that may well be the most important factor! :fro:
 
Chriso +1 on Wisconsinites!! The BAD thing is that NOBODY knows about Columbus, it really is a gem in the rough. It's why Universal filmed Public Enemies here. Just off a major highway at the crossroads of two minor highways.

Many here feel it's just a matter of time. Sun Prairie the "hot" trendy town of the 90's and low 2000's is getting filled up and crowded. 15 miles north is Columbus.

Of course I want to make my own beer but . . .small steps!!

SWMBO is for it.

I'm at a stage where I can retire early and do this. ALTHOUGH - I've never done anything like this before.

fat x nub - thanks for the vision :)

BTW - I sounds like I've made up my mind but I have not - just looking into if this concept is doable.
 
It looks like the stars just might be lined up for you! If it's not your capital on the line, go for it. shoot for a mix that will ensure repeat business. BMC for the swillers, and micros for the enlightened. Feel the waters after you've done that and see if brewing commercially seems feasible.
 
<Devil's advocate>

from a restaurant manager's viewpoint....


how much will it cost to run this place?
Can you keep your best beers on tap?
how will you calculate the tax on each pint sold?

Can you be consistent?
Will each pour from your taps taste like the last?
Will you skimp on labor costs to keep your bottom line in check, or will you pay for that extra 12-20 hours in OT to keep your staff working to keep your guests happy?
Have you ever had your ice machine take a sh*t on you on a Saturday afternoon? Do you have a backup plan?

Ideas are great.
managers that can make the ideas into profit are few.
managers that can keep you in business are even fewer.

</Devil's advocate>
 
thataintchicken - thanks - I need a Devil's advocate

how much will it cost to run this place?
Click to expand...

Not a clue

Can you keep your best beers on tap?
Click to expand...

Why not!

how will you calculate the tax on each pint sold?
Click to expand...

Well . . . it's being down now so how would it be different??

Can you be consistent?
Click to expand...

It's not my beer - it's other peoples already consistent beer

Will you skimp on labor costs to keep your bottom line in check, or will you pay for that extra 12-20 hours in OT to keep your staff working to keep your guests happy?
Click to expand...

ummmm - It would be nice to have guests!

managers that can make the ideas into profit are few.
Click to expand...

I think that is why the guy in charge wants me in the first place - I have this knack.
 
You know what? You only live once and you need to enjoy it!

Go for it! It sounds like you have a level head on your shoulders and have put some thought into this.
It is better to try and fail than to say "What if"
Brew on!
 
So it's moving forward, then! Excellent!

Have you done your feasibility study yet? You've got a cracking concept, but concepts will die if you can't get butts in seats. Email me, and I'll walk you through doing a feasibility study.

Cheers,

Bob
 
Read every post in that thread - thanks Torchiest - how's it going BTW.

The one thing I got out of this is that place in Cedarburg the Silver Creek Brewery Company.

I understand 100% about the brewing part being a ***** but my idea of having a LOT of "guest" beers seems to be something that's been done.

My investor is not really too keen on spending $100K on a 7BBl system and I know I can't be doing 10g batches for more then one beer PLUS - while many people want to buy my beer . . . . . is it THAT good? or is it just different then Miller! (no awards yet).

I guess what I have to explore is the operation of a BAR!!! and not the homebrewer part.
 
Hey Grinder,

Being from nearby N. Illinois, I can attest to the many fine local microbrews you would have access to in Wisconsin. Having attended the Thirsty Troll Brewfest, I can say there were many more available than I thought there were.

I would love to go to a place like you are thinking of. An adult place where you can go have a conversation would be nice. And if you couldn't manage all of the microbrews at one time, maybe set up a rotation system to handle them every month or so. You would have time to promote a new brewery addition or seasonals.

I would certainly make the hour drive north to check it out.

Ed
 
Exactly Hop Hack - I had a meeting with the people that started the Grumpy Troll and the problems they had.

The BIG problem is actually success!! As many have noted from experience. Starting small has major problems because getting bigger is a MAJOR headache.

Personally I'm not even thinking about MY brewing experience but OTHERS that have the infrastructure in place.

Thanks!!
 
Even in a place like Portland, OR, there are bars that serve craft beer, but don't brew. The Horsebrass is probably the most famous.

You could start out with a craft guest tap, then two, three, etc. Once the clientele has built up, start brewing. There are 1-4 barrel systems out there and not all that expensive if you buy them used.
 
I wish I could get Rogue out here!! I love that place!! #1 on my list!

That was my idea but I'm worried about space for a 1-4 BBl system. I think IF things took off we were have to relocate to a larger place.

This is a place that has become available in a convenient spot next to teh money guys current stores.
 
Is there a food component to your current plan?
Click to expand...

I have not seen the place but from asking around there seems to be no grill. If that is the case and one is not planned I'm thinking of great cheese places and so forth - not for filling up but for munching.

More of a snack menu. I know one person makes a lot of beer bread from my spent grains that turn out GREAT.
 
check this guys site out. Worth Brewing Company Home Page Northwood is a small town. I used to live on a farm about 15 miles from there. When I go back to visit family we always go to Worth Brewing. It is pretty cool and it is almost all local the keep him in business. I miss the midwest (but not during the winter).
 
Grinder12000 said:
... I'm thinking of great cheese places and so forth - not for filling up but for munching. More of a snack menu. I know one person makes a lot of beer bread from my spent grains that turn out GREAT.
Click to expand...

Serve Grain Bread and some real Wisconsin Cheese Curds.... I guarantee my butt will never leave the barstool, 'cept to hit the boys' room. :p
 
Serve Grain Bread and some real Wisconsin Cheese Curds.... I guarantee my butt will never leave the barstool, 'cept to hit the boys' room.
Click to expand...

Oh hell yes! Love me some cheese curds, baby! :rockin:
 
Grinder12000 said:
Read every post in that thread - thanks Torchiest - how's it going BTW.
Click to expand...

I'm actually considering going more towards a straight up bar/pub first, because the brewpub part takes extra licenses, which are extremely expensive, as well as the equipment you mentioned. I'm taking a small business management class right now as well.

I've also been thinking about opening a retail beer/wine store. In Texas, liquor cannot be sold at supermarkets or convenience stores. It has to be sold at its own place. Also, it cannot be sold after 9pm Monday-Saturday, and not at all on Sunday. The best beer stores also sell liquor, which means they have crappy hours. If I did just a beer/wine store, I could be open seven days a week until midnight, and until 1am on Saturdays. I think that could give an edge in the premium beer market, since the supermarket selections are pretty bad. We'll see.
 
i think:

you should get some sort of food option in there. no need for a huge full service kitchen, but maybe because you're short on space you could focus on something like pulled pork BBQ. that way you can put a smoker out back and have a minimal kitchen for sides, etc. it's great to have lots of great beers on tap but the difference between your customers having 3 beers per visit and 6 beers per visit is called dinner.

i really like where your head's at for starting with micros on tap. i would try to get your money man to provide for installing a 1bbl system for you to get going on brewing. given that you're a home brewer it's probably gonna take you a year to get 3-4 solid recipes together so that they're repeatable. that will give you the time to work out the kinks and figure out your tax situation with the beer. it depends a lot on your local laws but you should be able to brew on premise without the licensing and tax concerns so long as you're not selling it. you even could probably have after hours parties and consume the beer with invited guests who might pay for entry to drink for free. that's sort of a gray area, though. the point is if you want to be involved in this and you want to brew then i'd make sure there is a clear path, including the funding, to you actually brewing.
 
I think Senor has a good idea, start with the micros, and brew on your own, and invite your regulars to a monthly "tasting" where they pay an entry and get free beer (a few cornies depending on how many regulars) and eventual the money man will see that you have a huge line on your "tasting" night, and ask you to do it all the time.(assuming all legal stuff works out)

I know that there's a liquor store here that does a monthly beer tasting, $20 they have 2 homebrews and 3-4 theme beers (this month was Belgian Blondes) and the event starts at 9 and the line starts at 7, and well worth it. They also let you keep the glass. Something like that seems like it couldn't go wrong, because even if you have left over (for some ungodly reason) just make it the special the next day.
 
Columbus is a nice little town. (I used to live in Madison.)

Wisconsin has a strong and varied brewing tradition--duh! ;) If you just limited the bulk of your beers to Wisc beers, you'd cover most beer tastes: Miller, Blatz, Leine's, Capital Brewing, New Glarus....etc. And you'd have something that everyone could relate to.

And then maybe a few seasonal rotators of harder-to-find German beers or something (how German/Norske is Columbus?)

People will go for "good beer" if they can relate to the place. The Essen Haus in Madison may have been one of the best bars in the state, featuring a zillion kinds of German/Austrian/Dutch beers. But, the popcorn was free, pretzels were a quarter, the mustard bar had 9 varieties (all made in WI), and they had polka bands on the weekends. It was seldom empty--it really was a neighborhood bar, with "good beer." It worked because it was WI to the core and was just a place to have a beer after work or whenever. There were plenty of other "trendier" beer bars and brewpubs in Madison for the hipsters. There was nothing fake about the place, just old timey Wisconsin.

Pseudo-glitz brewpubs are almost a dime a dozen. If you want a neighborhood bar, think of what the neighborhood really enjoys, and then make your place 110% of that. I'm not suggesting that you mimic the Essen Haus, but if you are concerned about being able to be successful with "good beer," they were, because they were part of the place, not trying to be a new thing.
 
There is the Kurth Brewery - tha largest brewery in The U.S. in 1914 and it burned down. The remains is open Wednesday and Friday nights. The place is like "Cheers" and is loved. something like that is hard to create but I feel a smoke free place LIKE that is needed the other 5 days a week.

Movie Themed - The "money" made it with antique carriages - the town has the largest antique Mall in Wisconsin - SCARY large". The movie was a 1933 gangster movie and I wrote a blog that had 10,000 a day readers at one point. The largest Public Enemies site on the net.

Also - THAT bar was where Johnny Depp and 90% of the movie people went to have a beer after their 17 hour days. I have so many photos is silly of the movie as I was a Picture Car Driver.

Public Enemies - Columbus

The more I think of it this early morning the more I realize there is nothing in this town that REALLY caters to the coming throngs of Johnny Depp, Christian Bale, Emilie de Ravin, Marion Cotillard fans and Public Enemies,.

Would I be selling out? or making a wise decision on THAT theme. I AM the #1 guy for that movie around here. I might have to blog about that today.
 
You should make a trip down here to Illinois and visit Lunar Brewing Company in Villa Park. It's kind of like what you're talking about, but of course the population area is bigger. Lunar has gobs of craft brews on tap and makes their own fantastic stuff as well, but the place really looks like a local hangout that only serves Tombstone Pizza.
 
I think this bar idea sounds great. I'd take a trip out to see it. Embracing the movie's style, I think is a good idea. Who doesn't like old time gangster stuff? Other stuff from that era would give it a unique feel.
You should also put a Lake Louie beer on tap. I'd never leave.
 
I'll stop in when you open up. Lodi isn't too far. By the way, you may be able to get Rogue beer. I just saw 6 packs of it at Woodmans last week. There is a new pub in Madison called the Malt House. That place has an incredible selection. If you end up with something like that I will be a regular!
 
Grinder12000 said:
Would I be selling out? or making a wise decision on THAT theme. I AM the #1 guy for that movie around here. I might have to blog about that today.
Click to expand...

It works for Mystic Pizza even years after the movie. But the pizza is very good too.

I think 12 beers is a bit ambitious, I'd go for 3-4 guest beers at a time, and if you find one selling steadily, bring it on board as a regular!
 
I don't know where this is going for real, but I do have some suggestions.
If you don't want honesty, don't read this....and I'm not snarking!
First...If we are just talking about what "Could" be..."Someday"...cool...never mind.
But if you are serious, please read some of Brew Pastors work on Pro Brewing. Also consider taking a few years of schooling...both business and brewing. You can usually partner with a business owner and not need to be Donald Trump Business savvy, but to think that 10 or 50...even 500 batches qualifies you as a pro brewer...very arrogant! I would venture to guess that the difference is roughly the same a 2A High school Football compared to the NFL. Even the best 2A player is going to have a VERY tough time in the bigs....not to say that it can't happen...but it's got to be the very best of the best!
I would suggest some basic classes as far as metallurgy, and math...both very important knowledge bases for a brewer. Also a good back ground in crop science would be useful...and chemistry. Everything from water to hop usage and yeast attenuation is a function on math and science.
I say this to point out that we home brewers can certainly do things like a decoction...and ask all the questions we need or want...if we screw up a batch, it's 5 gallons...and not a big deal. The woes of the home brewer are nothing compared to the big boys.
You'll need to be able to reproduce EXACT Duplicates...over and over of all of your beers. You will have to make HUGE calculations...what happens if your next shipment of hops is 1% lower AA than the last. To me...who cares...I'll correct a little...to the Pro Brewer...BIG DEAL!
One of the brewers I respect more than all others here....missed his mash temp by almost 8F not a huge deal...really jacked with his beer, but it's 5 gallons...no big deal! But he's one of the most knowledgeable brewers I know, and he missed a mash temp. What if that were you and you missed a mash temp with 930 gallons of water? THOUSANDS of dollars of grain...WASTED!

All of this to say...I'd go to school if It were me.
 
Just to make sure we're still on the same page as the OP ... If I am reading right, the offer he is investigating is to manage a taphouse with microbrews .... not necessarily to sell his own beer there yet. It may be part of the future plan. But we're talking about the feasibility of opening/running the taphouse itself at the moment, not necessarily brewing his own.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Chriso said:
Just to make sure we're still on the same page as the OP ... If I am reading right, the offer he is investigating is to manage a taphouse with microbrews .... not necessarily to sell his own beer there yet. It may be part of the future plan. But we're talking about the feasibility of opening/running the taphouse itself at the moment, not necessarily brewing his own.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Ok. Totally.

Grinder..you ever managed a restaurant or bar? That is the simple question as to the feasibility of it.
 
Grinder..you ever managed a restaurant or bar? That is the simple question as to the feasibility of it.
Click to expand...

No - but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

Restaurant I would never ever attempt. I have worked at a restaurant and I know the manager was a complete moron. And I have been a leader of men in many many things but never a bar.

Plus - it's a small bar. Nothing huge and I'm not in it to make large money.
 
I think that sounds great. I was up in Columbus very briefly during the Public Enemy shoot (I work for news in Madison, and somehow, that's news). Anyway, I think a craft beer house is a great idea. A new one just opened up in Madison, The Malt House, and it seems to be going over very well. I think every community needs a place with a wide(r) range of brews beyond BMC. If you let us know when its open, I'll stop in for a brewski.
 

Similar threads

rtstrider
Brewing with unfiltered tap water advice
2 3
Replies
85
Views
7K
IslandLizard
IslandLizard
Hop
Ongoing Review: BrewHardware Premium Recirculating BIAB Package
Replies
4
Views
1K
Bobby_M
Bobby_M
Skåldy
A Hobby Obsessed Vet
Replies
6
Views
953
IslandLizard
IslandLizard
mongoose33
NorthEast Brewery Tour
Replies
12
Views
3K
mongoose33
mongoose33
C
Brewery & Bar Build Progress
Replies
11
Views
3K
Chris112
C

Latest posts

Back
Top