Brewing with unfiltered tap water advice

[rtstrider]

Hey all! I was looking to see if anyone had experience with brewing using unfiltered tap water? A few breweries in my area use this and it seems to be ok. Now there are chlorine/chloramines in the water so all water that touches the beer will be treated with Campden. The mash PH will be corrected to the 5.25-5.4 range. Took a sample yesterday and the unfiltered, cold side, of the tap came in at 35 TDS. Also the PH came in at 7.7. Any type of soft hose will be taken out of the process this time around to remove any hose flavors from the equation. Will only use water coming from metal pipes/faucets since there aren't any of the rv hoses/charcoal water filters on hand. Will be using either the outside faucet (no hose so straight from the faucet), or cold side sink water using the faucet only (not the sprayer) filling up a 5 gallon bucket to transfer the water to the brewzilla and stove top pots (sparge water). The city water report doesn't say much I understand other than the water is safe/acceptable to drink.

With that said my typical process is to go across the street to the RO machine which measures between 1-3 TDS as it's maintained every two weeks, fill up with 10 gallons, then come home and build a water profile from scratch. Seeing as the RO machine has more than doubled in price I'm looking for cheaper/alternative means. Speaking with a few local head brewers sparked this idea and brought out a wild hair to just give it a go and see what happens. The brewers are actively winning regional awards on the pro level which makes me think they may be on to something lol Anywho a copy of the water report is attached. It's from 2021 but that's all I've got. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Edit: Forgot to mention will be doing a test run on Saturday with a blonde ale to see how it turns out. It may be worth just sticking it out with the RO machine across the street as it's still significantly cheaper/faster than maintaining a setup here at home. Figured a light ale would be a decent test to see if anything sticks out.

 

[pvtpublic]

If it tastes good, use it. It really is that simple. Water adjustments are really only for fine tuning the beer.

 

[lumpher]

All I've ever used was tap water in 14 years of brewing. I've never bought water for brewing, and I've got a few awards. Go for it. As pvt says, if the water tastes good, it won't hurt the beer.

 

[AlexKay]

Your water report does not give you the information you want, which would be basically calcium, magnesium, and maybe sodium levels, as well as sulfates and carbonates. It's pretty much focused only on things which would make it unsafe to drink, like radium (good news -- it looks safe to drink!)

If your water is unusually hard (your water report does not give any information) it will not be suitable for brewing.

As for hardness, if you can hit your mash pH (remember, make a measurement 15-20 minutes in, and make adjustments between batches), and your water tastes good, your beer will taste good.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

If you can drink the water, you can brew beer with it. All the places I've lived have had very palatable tap water and made great beer in turn. Some of the places I've visited have had the most vile tap water. Would never brew with Vegas water.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Edit: Forgot to mention will be doing a test run on Saturday with a blonde ale to see how it turns out. It may be worth just sticking it out with the RO machine across the street as it's still significantly cheaper/faster than maintaining a setup here at home. Figured a light ale would be a decent test to see if anything sticks out.

The costs of understanding your water is time and roughly the cost of a ruined batch.

@AlexKay covered what is missing from that report.

Multiple sources of water can be a factor for some people. This article offers some ideas on brewing with that situtation: https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...ore-advanced-water-treatment-in-post-1.64822/

Finally (from the article above), water adjustments are not water chemistry:

The treatment of water for brewing can be broken down into 3 simple parts:

1. Removal of chlorine and chloramine
2. Adjustment of alkalinity
3. Addition of calcium salts and flavour ions

So let's look at each of these 3 aspects, but first some details.

 

[rtstrider]

The costs of understanding your water is time and roughly the cost of a ruined batch.

@AlexKay covered what is missing from that report.



read more here: https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...ore-advanced-water-treatment-in-post-1.64822/

I did just pull a sample of unfiltered tap water and a sample from the refrigerator filter. The main difference I could taste was chlorine in the non filtered water. Campden should take care of that. A brewery opened across the street from the house recently and they had mentioned investing in a Wards Labs report. However, the contact I had over there moved on so not too sure if they would be willing to provide that info now. Aka was trying to be cheap because I can't justify the cost of a Wards Labs report to the wife lol

 

[AlexKay]

Personal experience against the "ok to drink, ok to brew": my water tastes fine but is very hard, and my first ever batch was a dumper as a result (super-high tannin extraction.) I use adjusted RO now.

If you're treating for chlorine and measuring pH, you'll be good. Flavor ions are nice-but-not-necessary tweaks.

A blonde is probably just the right style for a test run. Good luck!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

FWIW, there is a 2007 NHC presentation ([2] via [1]) where they brewed two styles of beers with two different water profiles.

• a pale ale with a "pale ale water profile"
• a stout with a "stout water profile"
• a pale ale with a "stout water profile"
• a stout with a "pale ale water profile"

[1] exBEERiment | Water Chemistry: Impact Different Mineral Profiles Have on Dry Irish Stout
[2] Wayback Machine

 

[hout17]

Just go over to the brewery and ask them if they could share their water report if they have it and tell them you are a homebrewer they might be more accommodating than you think.

 

[IslandLizard]

A brewery opened across the street from the house recently

I would ask them, just to get the information. If they say no, nothing lost.

If that doesn't pan out, you can call your water company, quality control dept. They have the numbers on minerals. and can also tell you what their water sources are and how much fluctuation there is, such as seasonal changes, or after heavy rain or snowfall (road salt), droughts, etc.

Even without a complete mineral breakdown, a TDS of 35 is pretty low, and suitable and a good starting point for most beer. I'd measure that mash pH in a pale ale, or a small 0.5-1 pound test mash in a small lidded pot, kept in a prewarmed oven, and adjust from there if needed.

 

[rtstrider]

I would ask them, just to get the information. If they say no, nothing lost.

If that doesn't pan out, you can call your water company, quality control dept. They have the numbers on minerals. and can also tell you what their water sources are and how much fluctuation there is, such as seasonal changes, or after heavy rain or snowfall (road salt), droughts, etc.

Even without a complete mineral breakdown, a TDS of 35 is pretty low, and suitable and a good starting point for most beer. I'd measure that mash pH in a pale ale, or a small 0.5-1 pound test mash in a small lidded pot, kept in a prewarmed oven, and adjust from there if needed.

Just wrote the water company. Doubt I'll hear much back until next week due to the holiday. Thanks for the idea!

 

[hotbeer]

I'd also check to see if your water supplier has a more detailed analysis. For our municipal water here they provide a pretty detailed analysis.

I don't think that assuming if it's good enough to drink it's good enough for beer is a very good thing to assume.

Our city water here has a high pH and is very hard. I haven't tried it for beer yet. Many municipal water sources in the US are the same. Might want to be certain to check you mash pH with at least those inexpensive test strips so you know whether you mash pH is in the ballpark or is winding up way to high.

However on the other side, how much do you stand to lose if you make a few batches with it and you don't care for the beer?

 

[FloppyKnockers]

A brewery opened across the street from the house recently ...

I would just go across the street.



that is all.

 

[rtstrider]

I would just go across the street.



that is all.

It would give a good reason to purchase a pint glass! May just have to do that

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Even without a complete mineral breakdown, a TDS of 35 is pretty low, and suitable and a good starting point for most beer.

I agree with this. Yeah, a water report might provide a little bit more info, but you could almost treat this water as RO and move forward (or come up with a profile that uses single digits for most ion levels). It will not matter much if the actual values are 5 vs 12. The attached report shows a low level of Sodium, which is good.

 

[BrewZer]

Just go over to the brewery and ask them if they could share their water report if they have it and tell them you are a homebrewer they might be more accommodating than you think.

While you're at it, see if they'll let you buy some of their grains.

 

[rtstrider]

While you're at it, see if they'll let you buy some of their grains.

They're still pretty new so I'm going to wait a little bit for them to get some stability. I did inquire about the pint glasses though. Will be heading by there in the next couple of months for one of those for sure!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

a water report might provide a little bit more info, but you could almost treat this water as RO and move forward (or come up with a profile that uses single digits for most ion levels). It will not matter much if the actual values are 5 vs 12.

With DME/LME brewing, How to Brew, 4e suggests RO/Distilled (no mineral water) or 'low mineral' water (chapter 8 (?) has details).

It seems reasonable that a similar guideline could be made for 'all-grain' brewing - where one could ignore the small amount of minerals in tap water and use "Brewing Water Chemistry Primer" or Brewing Better Beer / Modern Homebrew Recipes (Strong) approaches.

It's probably not as simple as "less than 50ppm" for everything (e.g. Mg, Na).

 

[Broomfleet Brewery]

I notice some emphasis on not using a plastic hose pipe for water transfer. Do others find that it makes any difference to the finished article? I always run the water for a minute or so to I'm not using the standing water.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

At the minimum, get yourself a counter top cartridge water filter. You will be glad you did. It will make drinkable water taste fantastic.

 

[anthonyws]

fwiw... We got into sourdough breadmaking over the covid holiday and had trouble getting the yeast to rise the dough. A microbiologist with a university sourdough club mentioned (on NPR I believe) that chlorine is a yeast killer. once we switched to chlorine free water we had great success. So... NO CHLORINE. I cannot speak to the pH or TDS unless we are talking pools.

Happy brewing

 

[rtstrider]

At the minimum, get yourself a counter top cartridge water filter. You will be glad you did. It will make drinkable water taste fantastic.

It definitely does make a difference! In our case we can tell when it's time to change out the filter when we can start tasting/smelling chlorine in the fridge water.

 

[Geezer-Glide]

Several years ago my wife and I decided to downsize. We moved into the city and my beer quality took a dive. After extensive experimentation I bought a water test kit and discovered my city water had greatly excessive amounts of Sodium. The city also uses Chloramine as a disinfectant and it is much more persistent than Chlorine. Chloramine appears to laugh at Campden. Many municipal water treatment plants are going to Chloramine as (above) it IS more persistent. In any event I installed a RO system for drinking, cooking, AND brewing. Big improvement in my beer and drinking water. At least that’s what my wife tells me. I try not to drink very much water.

the system wasn’t terrible expensive and at my age I try to avoid hauling carboys to my basement brewer. it’s not hard bringing the beer back upstairs. I do it 16 ounces at a time.

​

 

[Geezer-Glide]

I misspoke on the Campdem. Most brewers say it WILL remove Chloramine.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

On another post a while back, I stated, "If your water tastes fine, it will likely make good beer.".

I got chastised by our local water expert on the forum for that statement.

 

[hout17]

I misspoke on the Campdem. Most brewers say it WILL remove Chloramine.

Yeah, it's actually the other way around Campden laughs at both chlorine and chloramine.

How To Brew 4th Edition (John Palmer pg 131):

Bottom line: metabisulfite powder or Campden tablets are the best way to eliminate chlorine and chloramine from your brewing water.

 

[mashpaddled]

You could and probably should consider in-home RO or at least charcoal filtration systems in addition to using campden to eliminate chlorine/chloramine.

Plenty of people repeat the proposition that if you tap water tastes ok you can brew with it although I don't entirely agree. You can make beer you will drink with tap water a lot of places (especially after removing chlorine/chloramine) but that gets down to how much you care about fine tuning your beers. Depending on where you live and the source of municipal water, you can have other issues beyond chlorine/chloramine. Surface water can vary in mineral content with the seasons and precipitation. If there is a concern about lead pipes in the municipal system it is common to acidify the water to reduce lead extraction. That can have an effect on your brewing water composition. The only way to know for sure is to try brewing a batch of a beer you're familiar with using tap water and see what you think.

 

[rtstrider]

You could and probably should consider in-home RO or at least charcoal filtration systems in addition to using campden to eliminate chlorine/chloramine.

Plenty of people repeat the proposition that if you tap water tastes ok you can brew with it although I don't entirely agree. You can make beer you will drink with tap water a lot of places (especially after removing chlorine/chloramine) but that gets down to how much you care about fine tuning your beers. Depending on where you live and the source of municipal water, you can have other issues beyond chlorine/chloramine. Surface water can vary in mineral content with the seasons and precipitation. If there is a concern about lead pipes in the municipal system it is common to acidify the water to reduce lead extraction. That can have an effect on your brewing water composition. The only way to know for sure is to try brewing a batch of a beer you're familiar with using tap water and see what you think.

That's the plan! Going to brew Cream of Three Crops using wlp840 and see how that turns out. There's literally nothing to hide there. It should basically taste like nothing It's a great recipe for that sort of thing

 

[Bobby_M]

If it tastes good, use it. It really is that simple. Water adjustments are really only for fine tuning the beer.

If you can drink the water, you can brew beer with it. All the places I've lived have had very palatable tap water and made great beer in turn. Some of the places I've visited have had the most vile tap water. Would never brew with Vegas water.

These opinions persist because it's the easiest of all the other options. People will drink all kinds of water that isn't good for brewing. It really comes down to how important it is to make the best quality beer you can. There are several commercial breweries in my state that brew with "drinkable" water and they are all basically past the two strikes and you're out list will all the people that take beer seriously.

Chlorine and Chloramine will ruin beer.
High mash pH will ruin beer. You can acidify to deal with alkaline water and pale beers, but if the water is alkaline enough, you'll have to add acid above the flavor threshold.
Mineral heavy waters can add a minerally flavors to beers that are supposed to be soft.
Iron in the water can make beers taste metallic.

All of these issues can be caused by water that would pass the drinkability test. Whole milk is perfectly drinkable too, but I wouldn't brew with it.

I understand trying to be pragmatic. Perhaps the way to approach it is, get the chlorine out and brew with it a few times. If the beer is up to your standards, carry on. If you taste something off, MAYBE its the water.

 

[odie]

I used plain tap water for over 20 years from Hawaii, to Cali, to Greece, to Texas. Never once had an issue. But all those places the tap water tasted just fine to drink and it made great beer.

I have also been to places where the tap water stinks and tastes very off. Potable yes, pleasant no. But I have not made beer with that kinda water.

I now have a house water filter, softener in use so that's my "tap water"...so it's not really "tap water" IMO.

Just get an inline RV water filter. Might not make a difference with your water supply, but it can't hurt and they cost about 10 bucks anyway.

If your current tap water tastes fine to drink, I would not obsess too much over it. I wouldn't invest in a massive chemistry set.

If your current tap water is not appealing to drink, then you might want to address that before brewing.

 

[50calshooter]

I don't do anything to the water at my Brewpub. It goes from tap to pot. If your water tastes good use it. I believe the water (more so then any other ingredient) is what makes my product totally local. In my 15 years of brewing I have never manipulated the water - not as a home brewer and not as a brewpub owner.

 

[rtstrider]

I don't do anything to the water at my Brewpub. It goes from tap to pot. If your water tastes good use it. I believe the water (more so then any other ingredient) is what makes my product totally local. In my 15 years of brewing I have never manipulated the water - not as a home brewer and not as a brewpub owner.

Do you touch PH at all? I ask because the brewery I spoke with said they do the same as you pretty much. Don't touch anything water related, just brew with it

 

[50calshooter]

Do you touch PH at all? I ask because the brewery I spoke with said they do the same as you pretty much. Don't touch anything water related, just brew with it

I Don't do a thing. I checked the PH in my city water a few years back just because I had the test strips. It's 6.5

 

[Geezer-Glide]

If you have good water, good on you! I moved from a place where I had good water to a city with municipal wells and water softeners. My Sodium was over acceptable limits and my pH was 8.2. My beer was decidedly inferior what I had been brewing previously. A RO system improved MY brew. Not to say it is going to improve it for anybody else. If it isn’t broke don’t screw with it. If you think you can kick it up a little, RO is just another tool in your belt.

 

[AlexKay]

Just to circle back, the OP said their plan was to treat for chlorine, and make sure mash pH was acceptable. That’s not “if the water tastes good, the beer will too” — they’re correcting in advance for 95% of what can go badly wrong. (I’m actually hard pressed to come up with a scenario for the other 5% other than high metal concentrations … and those would make drinking water taste bad.)

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

You could and probably should consider in-home RO or at least charcoal filtration systems in addition to using campden to eliminate chlorine/chloramine.

The purpose of the carbon, in large part, is to treat the chlorine and chloramine.

 

[rtstrider]

The purpose of the carbon, in large part, is to treat the chlorine and chloramine.

That's basically what we notice. When the fridge filter is getting old the water starts tasting/smelling like chlorine. Figure since Campden is being used, and the water is pretty soft, shouldn't need a filter. Going to use just plain jane tap water treated with Campden, correcting for PH, the next few batches and see what happens. Either way it'll be beer lol

 

[hout17]

That's basically what we notice. When the fridge filter is getting old the water starts tasting/smelling like chlorine. Figure since Campden is being used, and the water is pretty soft, shouldn't need a filter. Going to use just plain jane tap water treated with Campden, correcting for PH, the next few batches and see what happens. Either way it'll be beer lol

Yeah, the Campden will take care of any chlorine/chloramine in short order. That's what I do with my tap water and it works like a gem.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

On this topic...I have tried to do research on what those "inline RV filter" type devices actually do. I get the impression they might help with removing organic material that might be found in well water. When used with typical municipal tap water for brewing, I get the impression they mostly just give the brewer a warm and fuzzy feeling that they are dong something to "treat" their water, but they don't actually help much. A decent quality one might remove chlorine. Will they remove chloramine if run at a very low rate?

Anybody with more knowledge on the topic than me know what to expect from an RV Filter? Are they effective? What do they filter out? Anything to look out for in a specific model?

I do not filter my tap water, but I do always treat it was a Campden tablet (or powder).