Brewing with unfiltered tap water advice

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CascadesBrewer said:
On this topic...I have tried to do research on what those "inline RV filter" type devices actually do. I get the impression they might help with removing organic material that might be found in well water. When used with typical municipal tap water for brewing, I get the impression they mostly just give the brewer a warm and fuzzy feeling that they are dong something to "treat" their water, but they don't actually help much. A decent quality one might remove chlorine. Will they remove chloramine if run at a very low rate?

Anybody with more knowledge on the topic than me know what to expect from an RV Filter? Are they effective? What do they filter out? Anything to look out for in a specific model?

I do not filter my tap water, but I do always treat it was a Campden tablet (or powder).
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I've read the bare minimum flow rate to remove Chloramine with a charcoal filter was 1 gallon per 10 minutes. Don't remember where I read that though
 
For commercial systems we use a 5 minute empty bed contact time with catalytic GAC for chloramine. What's in those inline filters is sometimes plain ole' GAC and sometimes GAC with KDF.
 
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If the water tastes good, you can probably brew *something* good with it with no treatment except to remove chloramine. There's a local taphouse that (last time I checked, which was a couple of years ago) only filters the city water through a carbon block filter. Most of their beers suck, but I had a double stout there that was really good. It had enough black malt or roast barley to overcome the alkalinity. The local tapwater tastes good but contains a *lot* of bicarbonate.

Most of the homebrewers around here buy RO water and add salts. Another microbrewery that actually brews very good beer has their own RO machine and mix RO water and city water. I use straight tapwater (and Campden) but add quite a bit of phosphoric acid to get rid of the bicarbonate. I have a pH meter but haven't used it since I figured out how much H3PO4 to add per gallon (it's about 1 ml of 85%) Lactic acid or acidulated malt would work just as well if I didn't have to add so much. For German styles I sometimes use half the amount of H3PO4 and make up the difference with acid malt or lactic acid.

If I brewed all the time instead of just a few times per year, I would have an Sauergut reactor going and add that to the mash, then top it back up with some of the unhopped wort from each batch.
 
CascadesBrewer said:
On this topic...I have tried to do research on what those "inline RV filter" type devices actually do. Will they remove chloramine if run at a very low rate?
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I run mine at a very slow trickle for that same assumption.
 
50calshooter said:
I Don't do a thing. I checked the PH in my city water a few years back just because I had the test strips. It's 6.5
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If you brew the full range from pale beers all the way to black stouts and you don't do anything to your water or add acid to adjust mash pH, you could be making much better beer. That's a fact.

It's also the case with all the brewpubs, and several standalone commercial breweries surrounding this area. They are essentially mostly undrinkable. If you find a beer style that happens to line up with their water conditions, it's passable. For many, that means a stout. It's rather unfortunate that there are so many breweries putting out beer far worse than the local homebrewers.
 
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AlexKay said:
Just to circle back, the OP said their plan was to treat for chlorine, and make sure mash pH was acceptable. That’s not “if the water tastes good, the beer will too” — they’re correcting in advance for 95% of what can go badly wrong. (I’m actually hard pressed to come up with a scenario for the other 5% other than high metal concentrations … and those would make drinking water taste bad.)
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When I said "If the water tastes good, the beer will, too", I DID read where he said he was going to continue to dechlorinate and make sure the ph was good, and was taking that into account. These steps are definitely beneficial, and can easily make the difference between bad, mediocre, and good beer.
 
lumpher said:
When I said "If the water tastes good, the beer will, too", I DID read where he said he was going to continue to dechlorinate and make sure the ph was good, and was taking that into account.
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This tracks well with a nuanced conversation but the challenge when writing on a forum is its longevity. The OP and current participants MAY be more careful reading all the words in every post in the thread (at least when it's a page or less). Five years from now, someone will just skim over it and see this perpetuated anecdote and repeat it again. Notice that the anecdote is generally not as verbose/accurate as "if the water tastes good, and doesn't have chlorine or chloramine, or if you treat for chlorine with sulfites, and if you are brewing a beer color that lines up with the water's alkalinity, or you're testing mash pH and acidifying with lactic, brew with it"
 
Bobby_M said:
This tracks well with a nuanced conversation but the challenge when writing on a forum is its longevity. The OP and current participants MAY be more careful reading all the words in every post in the thread (at least when it's a page or less). Five years from now, someone will just skim over it and see this perpetuated anecdote and repeat it again. Notice that the anecdote is generally not as verbose/accurate as "if the water tastes good, and doesn't have chlorine or chloramine, or if you treat for chlorine with sulfites, and if you are brewing a beer color that lines up with the water's alkalinity, or you're testing mash pH and acidifying with lactic, brew with it"
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I'm going to try brewing a few brews I'm familiar with in regards to treated water. It's not going to be a side by side. However, I'm curious to see if there's a significant "in your face" difference. The time I've played with water and such with coffee there was definitely a difference there. It wasn't flat out smack in your face but it definitely was there. The treated water just flat out tasted better but they were close. In a blind taste test every single person picked the treated RO water for the coffee.
 
Bobby_M said:
This tracks well with a nuanced conversation but the challenge when writing on a forum is its longevity. The OP and current participants MAY be more careful reading all the words in every post in the thread (at least when it's a page or less). Five years from now, someone will just skim over it and see this perpetuated anecdote and repeat it again. Notice that the anecdote is generally not as verbose/accurate as "if the water tastes good, and doesn't have chlorine or chloramine, or if you treat for chlorine with sulfites, and if you are brewing a beer color that lines up with the water's alkalinity, or you're testing mash pH and acidifying with lactic, brew with it"
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What I've said is that after dechlorinating your water (some form of chlorine is a given for municipal water), you can probably brew *something* good with it. (I do kinda wonder about clear iron) It may take some work finding out what you can brew. Or you can assume you'll need to add some acid to brew light-colored beers; try an ounce of acid malt per gallon and see how it goes. It doesn't have to be complicated but you'll probably brew a few mediocre beers getting there.
 
rtstrider said:
I'm going to try brewing a few brews I'm familiar with in regards to treated water. It's not going to be a side by side. However, I'm curious to see if there's a significant "in your face" difference. The time I've played with water and such with coffee there was definitely a difference there. It wasn't flat out smack in your face but it definitely was there. The treated water just flat out tasted better but they were close. In a blind taste test every single person picked the treated RO water for the coffee.
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While it's not the end all solution, because local supplies to do change, but spend the $24 for a water test.

https://www.wardlab.com/submit-a-sample/water-analysis/

W-4. Livestock Suitability​

$23.25 USD

Fill a water bottle, send it to Ward with a check for $23.25 and include your email address.
 
Bobby_M said:
While it's not the end all solution, because local supplies to do change, but spend the $24 for a water test.

https://www.wardlab.com/submit-a-sample/water-analysis/

W-4. Livestock Suitability​

$23.25 USD

Fill a water bottle, send it to Ward with a check for $23.25 and include your email address.
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One local brewery heats up their mash water up to around 180 and leaves it that way overnight prior to dough in. Now I'm not sure if that does anything either. It may just be a practice that was picked up and held on to. Could that potentially drop more "stuff" out of the water?

A Wards Labs test is definitely on the to do list. Have to wait until after Christmas though...Unless...Hmmm...Might make a good present request lol
 
rtstrider said:
One local brewery heats up their mash water up to around 180 and leaves it that way overnight prior to dough in. Now I'm not sure if that does anything either. It may just be a practice that was picked up and held on to. Could that potentially drop more "stuff" out of the water?

A Wards Labs test is definitely on the to do list. Have to wait until after Christmas though...Unless...Hmmm...Might make a good present request lol
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Overnight at 180 is really only going to force a faster evaporation of chlorine (not chloramine).
 
rtstrider said:
One local brewery heats up their mash water up to around 180 and leaves it that way overnight prior to dough in. Now I'm not sure if that does anything either. It may just be a practice that was picked up and held on to. Could that potentially drop more "stuff" out of the water?
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I have very hard water and a few days after I fill the hot tub a lot of minerals drop out and make a mess of the hot tub. That's at 101 degrees F.
 
Bobby_M said:
This tracks well with a nuanced conversation but the challenge when writing on a forum is its longevity. The OP and current participants MAY be more careful reading all the words in every post in the thread (at least when it's a page or less). Five years from now, someone will just skim over it and see this perpetuated anecdote and repeat it again. Notice that the anecdote is generally not as verbose/accurate as "if the water tastes good, and doesn't have chlorine or chloramine, or if you treat for chlorine with sulfites, and if you are brewing a beer color that lines up with the water's alkalinity, or you're testing mash pH and acidifying with lactic, brew with it"
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Thanks for pointing this out. I'll be more careful to include the details of every entry to every thread I comment on, especially since 5 years in the future people may misunderstand me.
 
Given the rising price of distilled / RO water, five years in the future, there will be a sticky (wiki entry, blog entry) that offers pragmatic guidance on how to start brewing with tap water.

Light on "rabbit hole" science, it will outline how evaluate tap water, how to detect changes in tap water over time, what adjustments to make for a proper mash, and what additions to make for style appropriate flavor.

Maybe the wiki / blog entry already exists. 🤷‍♀️
 
Check with your city/county water supplier; they probably have a web site or make a few calls. They almost surely use cloramine. Don’t expect much success if you treat that with Campden tablets (sodium metabisulfide) which gives a lot of people like me, a splitting headache. That’s why I don’t drink much wine. And I can tell in 5 minutes and a few ounces if a local brewery is using it.
YES! To getting a water test by Ward Labs in Nebraska. They have a “Brewer’s” test that will tell you even more than the Livestock test.
I’m fortunate in living near a public-access artesian well with SUPER soft water. The only ion in double digits is bicarbonate, at 11 ppm, which isn’t a big concern. If I didn’t have that water for free, I’d gladly pay $1.00-1.50 per gallon for bottled mineral water (very low ions in western US & Canada) or distilled water. I add minerals/salts according to what I’m brewing and always Wyeast yeast nutrient near end of boil.
I acidify all brewing water first with phosphoric acid to 5.5 pH according to Gordon Strong’s suggestion from Sierra Nevada school. Always works great and yeasties are on a tear within a few hours!
 

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I guess I'm just one of the lucky ones who live in a place with great water (SW Missouri-in the Ozarks). It was a deciding factor in the location of my business and I am making a great product because of it.
 
Quentin Nelson said:
Check with your city/county water supplier; they probably have a web site or make a few calls. They almost surely use cloramine. Don’t expect much success if you treat that with Campden tablets (sodium metabisulfide) which gives a lot of people like me, a splitting headache. That’s why I don’t drink much wine. And I can tell in 5 minutes and a few ounces if a local brewery is using it.
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Sorry to hear that Campden affects you that way. That truly sucks. If I were in your boat I would being getting an RO system setup.

I'm going to have to disagree in regards to campden's effectiveness at removing chorine/chloramines though. It does a great job and in only a few minutes. That is what the chemistry and my experience with it says at least. I noticed a huge difference.

Brew on!
 
Quentin Nelson said:
I acidify all brewing water first with phosphoric acid to 5.5 pH according to Gordon Strong’s suggestion from Sierra Nevada school.
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... and there's more info on this approach in his two books + home brew con presentations - adjusting brewing water to pH 5.5 is just one of the interlocking pieces of his brewing process.

Also, in the ealry 2020s, there are a couple of brewers who have extended this process to include some of the easier reduced oxygen techniques. They post recipes (including process) from time to time in various home brewing forums.
 
My water varies by season. My town mixes town well water with reservoir water piped in. The mix varies by season - winter vs summer. I did two Wards analyses in different seasons with significantly different results. So now I can just do a quick alkalinity test and calcium test to figure out which profile I'm dealing with and adjust accordingly. If I'm doing something particularly light, I'll just use RO to make life easier.

Bottom line - a Wards analysis is well worth the minimal expense.
 
BrewnWKopperKat said:
What is a good source for these test kits?
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Do you have any local fish (aquarium) stores? I would ask there. Saltwater aquariums are much more stringent in their water requirements than we are. They'll probably do the tests for cheap, or they may have a recent test of the local water supply on hand.

(something I was familiar with 30 years ago; maybe it's all changed since then)
 
garvinator70 said:
well water taste good no smells just worried it may not have enough minerals
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In Texas, all water is well water. Not sure if it's treated when it gets to the towers or not. I would assume it does. I would get it tested for peace of mind and maybe make a batch with it while you're waiting for the results.
 
My village gets water from Lake Michigan. I use tap water + 1 campden tablet per 5 gallon batch.
 
BrewnWKopperKat said:
What specific products are you referring to?

@BlueHouseBrewhaus mentioned a couple of aquarium water test kits ealier



that appear to be around 1/10 the price you mentioned.


FWIW, those kits are also mentioned in Beginners Guide to [tap] Water Treatment.
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Sorry, I DO know there are a number of different kits. The one I bought was:

LaMotte - BrewLab Basic Water Test Kit 7189-02​

<start quoted text> The BrewLab Basic® water testing kit, model 7189-02, for home brewers quantifies 7 important water test factors. Experts agree water conditions affect your final product, so take the mystery out of making great beer. <end quoted text>

It seems to be tailored to the home brewer and I have been very satisfied with it. I have no connection with the manufacturer or vendor. Just a satisfied user. It helped my beer. It will likely do ~ 50 tests so each test costs ~ $4.10 each. What'd not to like?
 
Attached are my local water reports. I plan on using Campden to remove the Chloride and the add back as needed.
However the sodium content is 73.6 ppm. Would you recommend using partial or total RO water?
 

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dmaxweb said:
Attached are my local water reports. I plan on using Campden to remove the Chloride and the add back as needed.
However the sodium content is 73.6 ppm. Would you recommend using partial or total RO water?
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Salty but otherwise good.

Campden won't remove chloride, it'll remove chlorine and its byproducts, which is what you want.

If it were me, I wouldn't worry about the sodium, at least at first. It's solely a taste issue -- it doesn't affect any mash chemistry or fermentation -- so if you can't notice or don't mind a little saltiness (it can be an advantage for dark beer!) you're all good. If you notice or mind, then cutting your tap water with RO will fix things.
 
Wanted to pop back in and give an update. I was able to reach the brewer that got the report of the water across the street. They confirmed it is beyond crazy soft untreated. They said they sent the untreated and treated (with charcoal filter) to Wards labs. They confirmed the untreated was almost a blank slate and that the charcoal filter treated option was darn near RO levels. I have noticed the brews are actually coming out better now that I quit futzing around with the water outside of Campden and Lactic acid.
 
Would letting the water sit for 12/24 hours eliminate chlorine. IIRC, I read that chlorine evaporates off over time.
 
RyPA said:
Would letting the water sit for 12/24 hours eliminate chlorine. IIRC, I read that chlorine evaporates off over time.
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Why not use a good pinch of Meta Sulphite (Campden)?
It eliminates all Chlorine and Chloramines instantly. You don't have to wait, and takes away the uncertainty it didn't get evaporated overnight.
 

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