Need to wax a 30 gallon barrel?

[dcHokie]

Anyone have any experience with 30 gallon barrels?

Just got one and wondering how the oxygen permeability compares to 55/60 gallon barrels and if I need to wax a portion of it for long-aging sours.

 

[suprchunk]

I have a two 15g barrels. I haven't waxed them, but I've only aged a stout in one for about four months. I'll be using them for sours here soon, but will still not wax them. I think the staves are about the same thickness as bigger barrels. At least they seem to be on mine. With that in mind I don't think (again, THINK) that it will allow more oxygen to enter than the same thickness bigger barrels would. Again, just speculation on my part. If I was too worried I would just flood my ferm freezer with CO2 whilst it ferments. I don't really think I would be opening that much over the course of ~3 years.

 

[dcHokie]

This 30G feels about as beefy as a regular 60G barrel, staves look similar but perhaps slightly thinner.

I'm planning on fermenting 5-10 gallons in the barrel and then topping off with remainder after a couple weeks. It'll either go in a basement (60F yr/round) or an insulated closet area (62-69 yr/round).

 

[sweetcell]

the issue with smaller barrels is their higher surface-to-volume ratio. the smaller the barrel, the higher relative amount of surface area it will have.

imagine a sugar cube. say each side has a surface of 1, so the total surface of the cube is 6. now double the volume by gluing on another sugar cube. does the surface area double? no, because a side of each individual cube needs to touch in order to make the new double-volume shape. the surface area is 10. if you quadrupel the volume buy gluing 4 cubes together, the surface area is 16 - volume is 4 times greater, but surface area isn't even 3 times greater.

so the reason you might want to wax a smaller barrel is to limit the relative amount of wood - a porous material - is exposed to air.

another way of looking at it: 10 gallons of beer will oxidize faster in two 5 gallon barrels, vs. being in one 10-gal barrel. therefore, in order to get the same rate of oxidation, you would need to wax part of the 5 gallons barrels.

 

[ne0t0ky0]

I waxed my 11 gallon barrel before I did my lambic style. I plan to wax all of my smaller barrels, it can't hurt.

 

[dcHokie]

the issue with smaller barrels is their higher surface-to-volume ratio. the smaller the barrel, the higher relative amount of surface area it will have.

imagine a sugar cube. say each side has a surface of 1, so the total surface of the cube is 6. now double the volume by gluing on another sugar cube. does the surface area double? no, because a side of each individual cube needs to touch in order to make the new double-volume shape. the surface area is 10. if you quadrupel the volume buy gluing 4 cubes together, the surface area is 16 - volume is 4 times greater, but surface area isn't even 3 times greater.

so the reason you might want to wax a smaller barrel is to limit the relative amount of wood - a porous material - is exposed to air.

another way of looking at it: 10 gallons of beer will oxidize faster in two 5 gallon barrels, vs. being in one 10-gal barrel. therefore, in order to get the same rate of oxidation, you would need to wax part of the 5 gallons barrels.

I get all that. I guess I'm wondering what volume a barrel needs to be to reach that surface-to-volume tipping point, where oxygen exposure becomes negligible or acceptable, at least.

From this Wild Brews table, I'd guess that a 30 gallon barrel is in the 13-17 cc/L/yr range.

 

[Coff]

Im waxing both of my 15g, Im not sure why you would risk it with long term aging a mixed fermentation beer.

 

[dcHokie]

Im waxing both of my 15g, Im not sure why you would risk it with long term aging a mixed fermentation beer.

I have no desire to bulk age 30 gallons of vinegar, so I definitely plan to wax a portion of it, if not the entire barrel.

Filling it soon. Got the first 15 gallons knocked out this past weekend: 60/40 pils/wheat, mashed high, steeped oats, 2+ hr boil, bugs, bugs, bugs

 

[ChugachBrewing]

I would be more concerned about oak character- make sure your barrel is somewhat neutral (unless you're going for oak) and base your aging time on that.

 

[dcHokie]

I would be more concerned about oak character- make sure your barrel is somewhat neutral (unless you're going for oak) and base your aging time on that.

Its a new-to-me barrel, in its former life it aged Catoctin Creek rye whiskey, then a few cycles of a local brewery's porter. There are hints of both still present.

I fully expect the first pull to be a slightly oaky 'american wild', which I enjoy. From there, I plan on taking a solera approach over a couple years, likely pulling/replacing ~10G/year.

 

[dcHokie]

Barrel owners: curious what you generally deem is an acceptable amount of headspace?

I waxed 75% of this 30G barrel (not the heads), filled back in May and have about 3" to 4" from liquid level to bung-hole.

 

[hirschb]

Its a new-to-me barrel, in its former life it aged Catoctin Creek rye whiskey, then a few cycles of a local brewery's porter. There are hints of both still present.

I fully expect the first pull to be a slightly oaky 'american wild', which I enjoy. From there, I plan on taking a solera approach over a couple years, likely pulling/replacing ~10G/year.

Ah, you're one of the lucky ones who got some barrels from DC Brau!

 

[dcHokie]

Ah, you're one of the lucky ones who got some barrels from DC Brau!

Indeed I did

 

[brag]

From this Wild Brews table, I'd guess that a 30 gallon barrel is in the 13-17 cc/L/yr range.

So according to this chart, a carboy with a silicone stopper gets 170 times more oxygen exposure than one with a wooden stopper !?!

 

[AlphaWolf-Brewery]

Barrel owners: curious what you generally deem is an acceptable amount of headspace?

I waxed 75% of this 30G barrel (not the heads), filled back in May and have about 3" to 4" from liquid level to bung-hole.

I always try to have zero headspace if possible. 3 - 4" is a lot of sq/in of exposed wood that would be a great place for acetic acid bacteria to colonize. I would try and fill the headspace as soon as possible or make sure you have active fermentation so there is always CO2 in the space.

 

[thrillhouse]

Wanted to bump this thread. I have a line on a 30 gallon barrel directly from a distillery, and wanted to check in on the issues with oxygen permeability and headspace. Thanks!

 

[dcHokie]

Wanted to bump this thread. I have a line on a 30 gallon barrel directly from a distillery, and wanted to check in on the issues with oxygen permeability and headspace. Thanks!

I topped mine off. Before filling I waxed all but the heads and the bottom 20% or so of the staves.

You said fresh from the distillery; are you going to run some clean beers through it before long-aging/souring?

 

[thrillhouse]

Yup, planning on doing a barleywine or RIS before turning it into a sour machine. It's funny, I noticed your reply right when I was reading about your 55 gallon barrel group barleywine project.

Any particular wax you used for your 30? Thanks for the response!

 

[dcHokie]

Yup, planning on doing a barleywine or RIS before turning it into a sour machine. It's funny, I noticed your reply right when I was reading about your 55 gallon barrel group barleywine project.

Any particular wax you used for your 30? Thanks for the response!

I just used regular Gulf Wax. Did a quick double boiler with a can in a sauce pot, brushed it on with a cheap paint brush, and used the wife's hair dryer to even it out.

Just saw you're in Silver Spring; you ever make it to any DCHB meetings? Let me know; I'll bring one those bourbon barrel barleywines to share.

 

[ChugachBrewing]

I'm about to get 3 - 1gallon barrels, a 3 gallon and a 10 gallon to supplement the 50's. How much wax did you end up going through.

 

[dcHokie]

I'm about to get 3 - 1gallon barrels, a 3 gallon and a 10 gallon to supplement the 50's. How much wax did you end up going through.

Barely any at all. The 16oz box of Gulf Wax has four 4oz blocks and I used maybe half of one of those for the 30 gallon barrel.