Need some experienced eyeballs here..

[_ROOSTER_]

Hello brewers!

I have a quick question, as I just brewed up a nice porter yesterday. Plan on using a secondary for the first time and have been hearing/reading all about the pros/cons of using a 5 Gallon water bottle as a fermentation vessel. My primary is a 6 Gal glass carboy.

From what I can tell, this bottle should actually serve quite well, unless I'm missing something. Can you please take a look and tell me your thoughts?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/American-Maid-5-gal-Water-Bottle/51200565#read-more

The other option I'm considering is a 5 Gal food grade bucket that I can fit an airlock to:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Encore-Plastics-5-Gallon-Commercial-Food-Grade-Bucket/3694238

Happy to hear any advice/feedback! Pretty new to this home-brew thing, so I appreciate the help!

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I would use the bucket for the simple fact that they're easy to clean.
I would also use a 6.5 bucket for my primary for safety, weight, and cleaning but that's just me.

I don't make porters. Do they need to go into a secondary or can they ride it out in the primary like many other beers?

 

[_ROOSTER_]

I would use the bucket for the simple fact that they're easy to clean.

I don't make porters. Do they need to go into a secondary or can they ride it out in the primary like many other beers?

I don't think that they normally need a secondary fermentation, but I'm going to attempt a vanilla flair, so I'll put some vanilla bean in the secondary.

I also need to clear the beer up, as I was so tired after brewing that I forgot to strain everything on the way into the primary :cross:

 

[LLBeanJ]

Don't use a bucket for secondary unless you are going to add fermentables that will cause fermentation to restart creating more CO2 to purge the oxygen from the headspace (I.e., a true secondary fermentation). For short-term clearing purposes, the water bottle should be fine as long as it's only for a few weeks at the most. Fill it up to the opening of the neck to ensure that all headspace is eliminated. Plastic is O2 permeable, so long-term aging should be done in glass or stainless vessels.

With that said, you can add the vanilla to the primary and skip the unnecessary transfer. Your call, of course, but I wouldn't do it.

 

[_ROOSTER_]

Don't use a bucket for secondary unless you are going to add fermentables that will cause fermentation to restart creating more CO2 to purge the oxygen from the headspace (I.e., a true secondary fermentation). For short-term clearing purposes, the water bottle should be fine as long as it's only for a few weeks at the most. Fill it up to the opening of the neck to ensure that all headspace is eliminated. Plastic is O2 permeable, so long-term aging should be done in glass or stainless vessels.

With that said, you can add the vanilla to the primary and skip the unnecessary transfer. Your call, of course, but I wouldn't do it.

Thanks! I am super new.. only brewed 2 terrible batches to date.

I'll keep an eye on fermentation, but was planning to rack into the secondary maybe towards the middle of next week. I was going to let it sit in secondary while I'm out of town for Thanksgiving. Looking to bottle when I get back on the 27th.

Sound feasible? I know they say it's hard to mess up a batch, but I'm sure I can find a way!

 

[LLBeanJ]

Yes, perfectly feasible.

 

[triethylborane]

With that said, you can add the vanilla to the primary and skip the unnecessary transfer. Your call, of course, but I wouldn't do it.

Yup, agree. I dont transfer, I just add stuff like vanilla after primary fermentation is done.

 

[McKnuckle]

Sounds like a plan. In homebrewing lore, secondary went from being a required practice to a foolish practice and frankly, neither of those extremes is correct. It's simply a valid technique that every brewer should understand how and when to use.

Racking a dark beer to a conditioning vessel - see, I used a less controversial term there - is an appropriate thing to do for some beers, and most pro breweries do just that, since they must achieve total product stability before bottling. If you are able to transfer without oxidizing or infecting your beer, which are real but honestly quite rare phenomena, then go for it.

The 5 gallon bottle is perfect for... 5 gallons of beer (go figure!), and this will allow you to set it aside for conditioning while you are away. Dark beers benefit from extended conditioning anyway, as long as they are all sealed up and kept away from oxygen and critters.

 

[balrog]

Minor point "I was so tired after brewing that I forgot to strain everything on the way into the primary":

I never strain from brew kettle to fermenter and it's fine. It settles in time and really has nothing to do with final clarity of beer. I also love a good porter and make one often. I let it ride in primary a few weeks. Leave it be, let it ride, no opening and fussing. You'll be fine.

 

[_ROOSTER_]

Minor point "I was so tired after brewing that I forgot to strain everything on the way into the primary":

I never strain from brew kettle to fermenter and it's fine. It settles in time and really has nothing to do with final clarity of beer. I also love a good porter and make one often. I let it ride in primary a few weeks. Leave it be, let it ride, no opening and fussing. You'll be fine.

Thanks!

Was planning on dry hopping with an ounce of Cascade if/when I transferred. Was going to add the vanilla bean at the same time.

If I just keep in the primary until I get back on the 27th, should I just pitch the hops and beans on the 16th and just let it ride for the next 10 days?

 

[LLBeanJ]

If I just keep in the primary until I get back on the 27th, should I just pitch the hops and beans on the 16th and just let it ride for the next 10 days?

There are several ways to do this, so expect to get several answers that are different.

If it were me, I would do the dry hop right before you leave and then bottle when you get back. I'd use a hop sack to contain the hops while dry hopping to make racking to your bottling bucket easier.

I'd also make vanilla extract with your beans and add just the extract to the bottling bucket, rather than adding the beans to the fermenter. To make the extract, split and scrape the beans and cut the outer pods into ~1" long pieces. Toss the entire mess into a small container along with 1-2 oz of vodka. Let sit for at least a couple weeks. When ready to bottle, strain out the solids with a coffee filter or paper towel and discard them. The resulting extract goes into the bottling bucket.

 

[_ROOSTER_]

There are several ways to do this, so expect to get several answers that are different.

If it were me, I would do the dry hop right before you leave and then bottle when you get back. I'd use a hop sack to contain the hops while dry hopping to make racking to your bottling bucket easier.

I'd also make vanilla extract with your beans and add just the extract to the bottling bucket, rather than adding the beans to the fermenter. To make the extract, split and scrape the beans and cut the outer pods into ~1" long pieces. Toss the entire mess into a small container along with 1-2 oz of vodka. Let sit for at least a couple weeks. When ready to bottle, strain out the solids with a coffee filter or paper towel and discard them. The resulting extract goes into the bottling bucket.

Thanks!

The Cascade that I have came with a bag (as part of a kit). Assuming I should boil it before dropping the hops in and pitching?

 

[balrog]

Just dip it in StarSan is all I do. I mean, I don't sanitize the hops, nobody ever said I had to.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Just dip it in StarSan is all I do. I mean, I don't sanitize the hops, nobody ever said I had to.

Same here, just Starson the bag then add the hops.

 

[GHBWNY]

Minor point "I was so tired after brewing that I forgot to strain everything on the way into the primary":

I never strain from brew kettle to fermenter and it's fine. It settles in time and really has nothing to do with final clarity of beer. I also love a good porter and make one often. I let it ride in primary a few weeks. Leave it be, let it ride, no opening and fussing. You'll be fine.

This^

While less "glop" that goes into the fermenter is less that has to settle out of suspension, and while it may take a little longer than not having strained some of it out initially (you'll never get all of it by straining), clear beer is a result of gravity and time; given those things, every beer will eventually clear.

 

[IslandLizard]

Soak those sliced, scraped, and cut vanilla beans for at least a week in a pint mason jar (with a lid on it) in enough bourbon to cover them. Then add the whole content at the same time you're dry hopping and bottle a week later. Or as @LLBeanJ said, add the potion to your bottling bucket.

Omit the secondary at all cost, IMO.

 

[RM-MN]

Just dip it in StarSan is all I do. I mean, I don't sanitize the hops, nobody ever said I had to.

Since the hops are a natural preservative you don't need to sanitize them. By being a bit careful when dropping them into the fermenter you don't really need to sanitize the bag they come in. Wash you hands first, open bag, dump hops in. There are very few things that can infect beer and those cannot reproduce in CO2. Your primary will have a lot of CO2 in it and it takes time for the oxygen to replace or mix well with it. Open fermenter, dump in hops, close fermenter, and you will be fine.

 

[GHBWNY]

Since the hops are a natural preservative you don't need to sanitize them. By being a bit careful when dropping them into the fermenter you don't really need to sanitize the bag they come in. Wash you hands first, open bag, dump hops in. There are very few things that can infect beer and those cannot reproduce in CO2. Your primary will have a lot of CO2 in it and it takes time for the oxygen to replace or mix well with it. Open fermenter, dump in hops, close fermenter, and you will be fine.

While I totally agree with the above, I experienced an exception to this in a slightly different scenario which resulted in a hop-based infection. I used some really old hops that had been stored who-knows-where? to "bottle hop" a dozen bottles from a batch, just to give them a little more hoppy-ness. I dropped a hop pellet in each bottle just before capping. The result 3 weeks later was 5 bottles which had exploded in the case and the rest were super-gushers. The rest of the un-bottle-hopped bottles were fine. So, my point is, if hops hang around too long, or are handled in an unsanitary fashion or become host to other bacterial critters, they can cause an infection. As RM-MN indicates, use fresh hops, sanitize anything that comes into contact with the hops (including hands) and add them quickly and the least invasively. If you are using a plastic bucket, without removing the lid, you can remove the airlock and drop the hop pellets one at a time through the grommet hole.

 

[eric19312]

Hello brewers!

I have a quick question, as I just brewed up a nice porter yesterday. Plan on using a secondary for the first time and have been hearing/reading all about the pros/cons of using a 5 Gallon water bottle as a fermentation vessel. My primary is a 6 Gal glass carboy.

From what I can tell, this bottle should actually serve quite well, unless I'm missing something. Can you please take a look and tell me your thoughts?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/American-Maid-5-gal-Water-Bottle/51200565#read-more

The other option I'm considering is a 5 Gal food grade bucket that I can fit an airlock to:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Encore-Plastics-5-Gallon-Commercial-Food-Grade-Bucket/3694238

Happy to hear any advice/feedback! Pretty new to this home-brew thing, so I appreciate the help!

I'd dryhop in the primary and do the vanilla bean tincture trick mentioned by @LLBeanJ. If you don't want bourbon flavor in your porter vodka will work fine to extract the vanilla flavor and sanitize the beans too.

If you are set on racking to secondary this is a good style to do that as the style is less about hop character and you probably won't notice a slight oxidation. If you keg you could purge the secondary container with CO2 to reduce oxidation but again if you keg I think there is even less reason to secondary.

As for that Walmart water bottle... Great price but I would not use that for secondary. You will never get it clean enough to use a second time due to that handle. It may or may not be easy to find the right stopper to really airlock the hole. Get a 5 gallon plastic carboy from your LHBS or online. About $25 but can be claaned and likely less oxygen permeable than the water jugs. 5 gallon glass carboys are also very nice for secondary. Keep an eye out at garage sales and craigs list these are not too hard to find or again your LHBS will will have them and they are good for longer term bulk aging.

 

[balrog]

While I totally agree with the above, I experienced an exception to this in a slightly different scenario which resulted in a hop-based infection. I used some really old hops that had been stored who-knows-where? to "bottle hop" a dozen bottles from a batch, just to give them a little more hoppy-ness. I dropped a hop pellet in each bottle just before capping. The result 3 weeks later was 5 bottles which had exploded in the case and the rest were super-gushers. The rest of the un-bottle-hopped bottles were fine. So, my point is, if hops hang around too long, or are handled in an unsanitary fashion or become host to other bacterial critters, they can cause an infection. As RM-MN indicates, use fresh hops, sanitize anything that comes into contact with the hops (including hands) and add them quickly and the least invasively. If you are using a plastic bucket, without removing the lid, you can remove the airlock and drop the hop pellets one at a time through the grommet hole.

The hop pellet in a bottle also adds micro hop debris which gives a bajillion CO2 nucleation sites. I'm not saying they weren't infected but I am saying, from experience, that any hop debris in the bottle will make those suckers go gush-crazier than normal. Although, the exploding ones really do point to overcarb from infection so I don't doubt that.

 

[_ROOSTER_]

Loving all of the advice and helpfulness! Thank you, everyone!

My current batch is the first I've done in about 2 years. In addition to forgetting to strain everything on the way into the fermenter (which turns out to be no big deal), I also neglected to oxygenate prior to pitching the yeast. Doesn't seem to have mattered though, as the yeast went NUTS, krausen clogged my airlock and blew the stopper off on the first night of fermentation! Ran a blow off tube all day yesterday and fermentation has settled down quite nicely.

Been toying with the idea of making the vanilla extract with bourbon, as suggested. Was also thinking of adding some fermentables at the same time that I'll dry hop and add the extract.

I don't want to go crazy, but was thinking of possibly adding a brown sugar simple syrup to the extract... not much, maybe around a tablespoon or 2 worth. Hoping to add a little bit to the ABV, while adding a little more complexity of flavor.

There seems to be a lot of mixed feelings about adding extra sugars during fermentation, so I'd love to hear what you all think.

Thanks again for all of the great feedback so far!

 

[balrog]

Oh you're bound to get opinions now!
Brewing sugar's been used for decades (Google making invert sugar)
Adding brown sugar will add some character, but a tablespoon or two in 5 gallons would likely be below detection levels of taste, certainly not much change in ABV.

 

[_ROOSTER_]

Ha! I just priced out fresh vanilla bean and got sticker shock! May just use a pre-packaged extract and prepare a syrup with brown sugar and bourbon to throw in when I dry hop.

Pros/cons?

 

[IslandLizard]

Ha! I just priced out fresh vanilla bean and got sticker shock! May just use a pre-packaged extract and prepare a syrup with brown sugar and bourbon to throw in when I dry hop.

Pros/cons?

I've never used those, but I think people get them off Amazon. Like 5 or 6 beans for $6 or so. HomeBrewFinds sometimes lists them as such.

Steer well clear from most (or any) flavor extracts, as most are artificial. I don't like brown sugar in beer, to me it leaves a metallic taste after it ferments out. YMMV.

 

[LLBeanJ]

I used to get them off Ebay for about $1 each, usually shpped from France or India, but I just checked and it seems those days are over. Now it looks like best price is around $3 each.

 

[Kharnynb]

not sure over there, but here, vanilla beans are just basic baking supplies, and cost at most 2.50 or so.

If you want to go with sugar anyway, you could of course get (real only) vanilla sugar, but don't get the cheap ass vanillin sugar

 

[GHBWNY]

Whereas, adding sugar might appear to add sweetness or flavor (as in brown sugar, honey, maple syrup, etc.), in reality, after the yeast eats all the added sugar and while the ABV will definitely increase, the extra alcohol produced may dry the beer out unproportionately more than any added flavor that might be expected. If you are considering a flavor extract of any kind, make sure it is all natural and has no artificial flavorings and additives. AND... use it very sparingly. Most flavor extracts --- even the best ones created for beer --- can quickly taste phony and medicinal.