Need help kicking the bottles

[Zippy123]

I’m looking to kick the bottles in favor of a keezer. (I’ve spent a month researching the pros/cons of kegerator vs. keezer and a DIY keezer makes the most sense for me.) Thinking a 4 or 5 tap system. But I need your help.

There was a recent coup in my household. As a result, SWMBO was installed as the Chair of the Household Select Committee on the Expansion of Brewery Operations. If the new Chair were a beer drinker, the ousted Chair (me of course) would have a much easier time with budget and logistics approval. However, the new chair is fond of robust red wines and tonic water (laced with Tanqueray). So I am trying to develop some compelling arguments that will make keezer approval fly through the committee. Here is my situation and some of my arguments in favor of the expansion into kegging.

SITUATION: All BIAB brewery operations including bottling are done in the kitchen.

EXPANSION ARGUMENTS:

1. No more bottles in the dishwasher, on the counter, or in the basement (excepting some Imperial Stout, Scottish Wee Heavy, Tripels and Quads).
2. A few taps could be dedicated to ciders and maybe even pre-made Gin & Tonics? (Not sure about the last one!)
3. I would have more free time to spend with the Chair, and more time to spend on home repairs.
4. Budget: $600 all-in. I have a friend who works in the soda industry so I have access to some very good kegging equipment at very good prices. Plus he is an expert in the delivery of carbonated beverages.

I appreciate any other compelling arguments you can think of that will help me achieve the goal of expansion into kegging.

 

[whoaru99]

You/she can have wine on tap.

I've made a couple wine kits so far. They have turned out pretty good. Bottled and bagged a Malbec. Kegged a Rose, the SO/GF was pretty keen on that. She liked the Malbec too, just the kegged Rose was convenient. Have an old vine Zin kit and that will be kegged too. Easier than beer, IMO.

That should secure funding.

 

[Airborneguy]

I’m a poor source for the swmbo angle, but I have to say I recently switched to a kegerator because I tired of lifting the kegs up and over the keezer.

 

[slurms]

I like how there is a House Committee on Beer, sorry you were ousted as chair...

If you all like seltzer water, you can always keep that on tap (possibly a pro for making one). If all debates lead down the same road, you could always start out a bit smaller. Buy an old mini-fridge and use that as your makeshift kegerator. Usually can fit 2 kegs into it. Picnic taps and some beer line are cheap. That's how I started. And now I have an extra fermentation fridge to use if needed (since I have a keezer setup at this point).

I don't know about G&T on tap. Easy to make when you want it, and then you won't take up space in the keezer. Having a bit extra room in there when you can have it is nice (mine gets full and it's hard to deal with things in there).

 

[GoodTruble]

My wife immediately approved of my kegerator plans when I said there would be no more bottles cluttering the kitchen. That's your top argument.

 

[Zippy123]

I’m a poor source for the swmbo angle, but I have to say I recently switched to a kegerator because I tired of lifting the kegs up and over the keezer.

Something I considered. If approved, most likely landing point will be garage or basement where an overhead lift will be a cinch to install. Or a closed system pressure transfer if I get fancy.

I like how there is a House Committee on Beer, sorry you were ousted as chair...

If you all like seltzer water, you can always keep that on tap (possibly a pro for making one). If all debates lead down the same road, you could always start out a bit smaller. Buy an old mini-fridge and use that as your makeshift kegerator. Usually can fit 2 kegs into it. Picnic taps and some beer line are cheap. That's how I started. And now I have an extra fermentation fridge to use if needed (since I have a keezer setup at this point).

I don't know about G&T on tap. Easy to make when you want it, and then you won't take up space in the keezer. Having a bit extra room in there when you can have it is nice (mine gets full and it's hard to deal with things in there).

Seltzer is another good option that didn’t occur to me, thanks! I also like the idea of starting with a 2 corny kegerator and then expanding to a keezer after getting over the keg learning curve. With both I might be able under the right conditions to use one as a temp controlled ferm chamber.

 

[lumpher]

No more chance of bottle bombs. My wife "forced" me into kegging 14 years ago when i had a bottle bomb go off, and that set a second one off. Haven't bottled since.

 

[SaisonMan]

It's rare to be able to reason with a military junta. These people only understand wine. I'm concerned about a river of red in the streets.

 

[mac_1103]

pre-made Gin & Tonics

Just keep the tonic on tap. Assuming the budget includes secondary regulators.

 

[OleBrewing]

is this more of a household "financial" squirm or more of a this is what I feel squirm. If in a tight budget, then probably not best to do. If because one does not like it that is a different ball game. I am not one for marital advice. to find a balance is tough.

But ask your self this. How much personal space did one give up to suit the other. I will bet it is heavily favored towards one and not the other.

If one does not want to cater to the others needs but expects to be catered for there needs there becomes the argument.

If each are mutual then this is mute point. road goes both ways.

this is actually bad advice. just do it and ask for forgiveness later.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Always Usually easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission!

 

[Graham H]

Don’t rule out smaller kegs as well. They’re only slightly less expensive than their five gallon siblings, but they’re easier to handle and can give you more options for flavors on tap and on deck (chilling and carbonating).

I have a modest three-tap keezer and usually keep one beer and two ciders on tap. Haven’t tried cocktails or wines yet, but probably will at some point.

If you’re going the home-built keezer route, you can spread the cost over time. Start with the CO2 system (tank, regulator, delivery line), one tap, and one or two kegs. As long as you plan it out well, you can add more taps and a CO2 manifold later. This might help make the switch a little easier.

 

[Zippy123]

If you’re going the home-built keezer route, you can spread the cost over time. Start with the CO2 system (tank, regulator, delivery line), one tap, and one or two kegs. As long as you plan it out well, you can add more taps and a CO2 manifold later. This might help make the switch a little easier.

Great advice, thanks. Starting with a few corny kegs and an expandable manifold for multiple low pressure gauges was part of my plan. I’m also noodling out some ideas for a tap tower that sits atop the keezer rather than through the collar. Need to take into account the possible interference of the tower with the wall behind, and also the location of lines to the tower so I can move corny’s in/out with the least obstruction.

I am generally impatient. However when facing a project like this, which is still under conditional review by the committee Chair, I take my sweet time.

 

[drjayray]

Keezer is the way to go for your situation.
I have 3 kegerators (2 dual taps, 1 single) and one small 5cuft keezer that holds 2 cornys with picnic taps.
All of them gotten for a song on Craigslist or FB marketplace over the years.
I have found that the older style keggers from 70s-90s with R12 Freon systems just keep on going and get nice and cold. Newer stuff yes prolly more efficient but don’t seem to last.
I have them at 2 houses and they serve different functions- full size keeger in barn at lakehouse for parties, smaller single one for 2.5-3gal “pony” carboys experimental beers, dual tap when I really get rolling, and the small keezer was an experiment of such but I like it’s utility and it doesnt need defrosting like the keggers do. Also have a nice igloo cube cooler that holds my 2.5gal corny keg and small co2 tank regulator which is great for weekend trips (free hotel ice) or graduation parties (dad make a batch of blue raspberry hard seltzer for us please!) have you seen what these Trulys/high noons/white claws cost jeez. Yeah I could prolly upgrade to 4 corny keezer and have the gas manifold, old school brass bar 4 tap tower, but I’m still attached to my keggers which also serve as glass holders and like my tap handles (goose island, old ski pole, and scrimshaw) plus one kegger goes to 11 (spinal tap style) and I will need a project in retirement - I’m seeing a 4 tap keezer system of strong ipa, lighter crush beer, hard seltzer tap, and maybe a premade gin and tonic or margarita tap or white wine which I think is what you are headed for!
Good luck and get the spousal unit involved in decorating it after (custom blackboard tap handles, nice paint stencil designs on keezer, etc) and most of all have fun. Keep on brewing!

 

[Broken Crow]

I've got a very supportive GF, but I'm also disabled so the lifting involved in a keezer was a no-go... a nice looking kegerator with 2 taps for her drinks though, one permanently cider and the other; whatever fruity or whatever concoction made my my LHBS, or eventually the Graf I'll get around to making... That was a different story altogether. As @whoaru99 first mentioned; you can serve wine on tap, and you can always make your own tonic-water;
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=diy+tonic+water&ia=webKegging is far easier on my body than bottling, so there is that (but I suspect you're young and healthy as you chose a keezer over a kegerator....something to consider as you get older.)
I am wondering though if your point #4 is relevant; Do they still use kegs? Can you get a regulator with a 0-30 or at least 0-60 psi low-side gauge? ..those 160psi ones for soda make it very difficult to adjust precise carb levels for beer.
There's always the emotional blackmail angle too: "If you really Love me, you'll let me build it." ...I feel that's fair since both my GF and I do it each other often enough.

 

[kheart]

I started with a two tap kegerator, but am working on converting a two door fridge with lower freezer. It's smaller (counter depth), maybe 21cf, but will swagering. 4 or 5 kegs with CO2 inside. The plan is to use the kegerator for lagering.

 

[Graham H]

I've got a very supportive GF, but I'm also disabled so the lifting involved in a keezer was a no-go...

I’m not (yet) disabled but if I had to lift kegs into my keezer unaided I’m sure I would’ve broken something by now… either me or part of my setup.
I get around this by using a ceiling-mounted bicycle hoist (I had a spare lying around). It’s mounted slightly in front of my keezer, which sits on a homemade dolly. I lift the keg high enough, slide the keezer under it, then use the hoist to lower the keg in a controlled manner.
No matter how much I try, I can never seem to keep gas/beer lines from getting in the way of where I want to lower my keg. Using my hoist allows me to take my time and avoid snagging any lines. Not saying it would help you @Broken Crow —just a suggestion for OP.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

You're getting lots of solid advice here, but as your neighbor, ditch the bottles!

They have place, all of mine went to the recycling station, some to friends who were on the fence like you.

I have a repurposed fridge I use for my kegged beer. It fits six five gallon kegs just fine. All of the shelves are removed and I built a plywood base to cover the back hump. I also have room for lose cans and such.

You won't be disappointed switching and as you have read there's other possibilities besides kegged beer.

Forget all of the political nonsense and do the right thing.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

The figure of $600 seems ridiculous. I would say this will top out at no more than $150, leaving $450 for things like designer shoes and Taylor Swift merchandise. If she's that young. If she's older, maybe Hummel figurines.

Of course, it's possible unforeseen changes will require several small adjustments in this good faith estimate, made with careful attention to timing the Chair's good moods. There is no point in cluttering the legislative agenda with this contingency right now, however.

Bottles are bad for the environment, because they are made of sand. There is a global sand-mining crisis right now. We just don't know where we're going to get more sand. You can take your old bottles to the beach and throw them in the water. Over thousands of years, nature will turn them back into sand, and Gaia will smile. While they are still intact, they will make inviting homes for tiny sea creatures which are, maybe, endangered or something.

Bottle caps are made of steel, which has to be mined using large machines that run on diesel, producing all sorts of global warming. While there is a certain amount of metal in kegging equipment, if you drink moderately, say 300 bottle-equivalents per month, the steel savings from kegging will create a positive steel offset within as little as 5 years.

Bottles are also very dangerous because they break and create sharp edges which can harm the Chair's cat and children, if any.

You can pledge to dedicate a couple of taps to kombucha or whatever other horrible things women drink because they have wildly unrealistic notions of their health benefits. Use words like "organic," "antioxidant," "free radicals," and "alkaline."

 

[Zanatrik]

I personally started with kegging, but my better half most appreciates the fact that cleaning, sanitizing, and filling a single keg per batch vs. an army of bottles gives me more time to spend with her, or help with other things around the house.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I personally started with kegging, but my better half most appreciates the fact that cleaning, sanitizing, and filling a single keg per batch vs. an army of bottles gives me more time to spend with her, or help with other things around the house.

That's so nice!

I look at it as more time to brew.

 

[Zanatrik]

That's so nice!

I look at it as more time to brew.

That’s how to win! If I make her happy by spending more time with her or helping around the house, she is more open to the next time I say it’s time to brew, which means I end up brewing more!

 

[madscientist451]

Don’t over think it, you don’t need a 4 tap keezer….just start with an inexpensive second hand ‘fridge, some picnic taps and 5’of line per tap. After you drink 3-4 pints, hook up the co2 and top up the pressure. You can get the whole set up really cheap, meanwhile, keep an eye on FB market place and eventually you’ll find a keezer for a fraction of the price it will cost you to make your own. Maybe the missus likes seltzer or sparkling wine? Yeah, you can do that…..

 

[Whisky River]

I am a big fan of kegerators over keezers but if your S/O isn’t so understanding about 5 gallon mishaps, you might want to stick with the keezer. It’s not uncommon to loose a whole keg to a bad seal or poppet and at least with the keezer the mess will be contained and you will have avoided any unpleasant repercussions.

 

[WayFrae]

I’m a poor source for the swmbo angle, but I have to say I recently switched to a kegerator because I tired of lifting the kegs up and over the keezer.

I also switched to a kegerator for the same reason. Another plus to the kegerator is that it handles moisture better than a freezer turned refrigerator.

 

[AlexKay]

If you’re used to making beer, home-made tonic water shouldn’t be too hard. And I bet with enough experimenting, you can come up with something really, really good.

I regularly make sparkling hop water. It’s better than what I can buy, and so much cheaper.

 

[Deadalus]

Great advice, thanks. Starting with a few corny kegs and an expandable manifold for multiple low pressure gauges was part of my plan. I’m also noodling out some ideas for a tap tower that sits atop the keezer rather than through the collar. Need to take into account the possible interference of the tower with the wall behind, and also the location of lines to the tower so I can move corny’s in/out with the least obstruction.

I am generally impatient. However when facing a project like this, which is still under conditional review by the committee Chair, I take my sweet time.

Evabarrier is less bulky to use inside the keezer and tower than some of the older styles of lines.

Put wheels on the keezer and you can pull the keezer out and away from the wall if you have a tower on the lid. I initally used a piece of MDF that I had leftover from a different project. Cut it to size and screwed the wheels on.

 

[Graham H]

Put wheels on the keezer and you can pull the keezer out and away from the wall if you have a tower on the lid. I initally used a piece of MDF that I had leftover from a different project. Cut it to size and screwed the wheels on.

Second! I use a collar, so tower clearance isn’t really a worry for me. I did make a wheeled base to allow me to reposition the keezer when needed, and it has turned out to be very handy. I can wheel the keezer underneath my ceiling-mounted pulley to aid in loading full kegs. Mine is kept in the garage, so I can get away with the eyesore—probably not as useful for anyone with an indoors keezer.

 

[Deadalus]

Second! I use a collar, so tower clearance isn’t really a worry for me. I did make a wheeled base to allow me to reposition the keezer when needed, and it has turned out to be very handy. I can wheel the keezer underneath my ceiling-mounted pulley to aid in loading full kegs. Mine is kept in the garage, so I can get away with the eyesore—probably not as useful for anyone with an indoors keezer.

I have a bit of a tricky load to get my kegs situatated as I have a bar top build out as part of the lid and a low ceiling. I can only get the lid open so far so I have to slide the keg near horizontally then rotate down. When I read your post about it, I started thinking that a hoist might be an option. Then I thought, what if the joists weren't positioned correctly. But I have wheels so I may just install one as I already have a canoe hoist that I never got to use. Mine's in an unfinished basement room.

 

[Zippy123]

I have a bit of a tricky load to get my kegs situatated as I have a bar top build out as part of the lid and a low ceiling. I can only get the lid open so far so I have to slide the keg near horizontally then rotate down. When I read your post about it, I started thinking that a hoist might be an option. Then I thought, what if the joists weren't positioned correctly. But I have wheels so I may just install one as I already have a canoe hoist that I never got to use. Mine's in an unfinished basement room.

I saw a post here a while back where the OP used an old patient lift (acquired for almost nothing on Marketplace or Craigslist) for his BIAB process. If the lift were high enough to get kegs in/out of your kegerator that might be a solution. Although as I write this I think the legs of the lift would need to go under the kegerator. So this might work if the kegerator were on a few blocks to raise it off the ground a few inches. Maybe not a solution for you, but perhaps a solution for someone!