Nailing Down An IPA

Williams 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
stylus1274

stylus1274

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
339
Reaction score
64
Location
Tampa
Hello -

Let me preface my posting by saying I understand everyone's palette is different as well as everyone has their own unique preferences. I'm hoping to just get some opinions here in hopes of improving my recipe.

Alright with that said I'm trying to 'nail down' my house IPA. I've made a few that were tasty and definitely enjoyed.

I'm just short of spot on with my hops. But, something is 'off'.

The beer itself seems a bit thin to me. Almost like it needs a bit more backbone. Or bit more malt bite. Not sure if that makes sense.

Does anyone suggest a different grain bill combo or grain addition to spice this up a bit?

As I said I'm pretty happy with the hops. I don't think those are the issue as I used different hops with the exact same grain bill and still had the same 'results' in terms of malt backbone.

Here is the recipe.


10# 2 row
8oz white wheat
8oz carapils
12oz crystal 15

.5 magnum 60 min
1oz citra 15
1oz citra 5
1oz citra 2
1oz amarillo flame out

Safale 05 yeast

3oz citra dry hop


Any insight is appreciate.
 
Two things:

1. mash temp? A lot of brewers on this site prefer drier/thin beers that are usually mashed around 149. I like fuller/sweeter bodied beers mashed at 153-157.

Consider some marris otter or subbed in for a few pounds of your 2-row. I use pale ale malt instead of 2-row. Gets the job done for me.
 
Unless I really mess up I mash at 154 for an hour for this recipe. If it matters my OG was 1.68 and FG was 1.010

Some marris otter? hmmm interesting. Not sure if my LHBS has pale ale but I will check that out as well.
 
What water are you using? What are you using to calculate adjustments? What is your target profile for this beer?
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
You should try this.It looks exactly like what your going for. I'm drinking it now and it is FANTASTIC.A fellow member just won first place with it.(go to last page to see #215)

Plenty of backbone.Kinda "thick" if that's what you mean...Look at post #216 for a picture of my beer :D



http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...7alhXulYV36E5gw0KCucHg&bvm=bv.133178914,d.dmo
Click to expand...


You are referring to plankbr right? He posted I should use Munich to solve this issue. After reading the recipe and other posts I think this is what I'm going for. Has a lot of similarities to my recipe.

You think I should just dump the carapils and add the Munich?
 
stylus1274 said:
You are referring to plankbr right? He posted I should use Munich to solve this issue. After reading the recipe and other posts I think this is what I'm going for. Has a lot of similarities to my recipe.

You think I should just dump the carapils and add the Munich?
Click to expand...
Correct I was reffering to planbr,didnt notice he chimed in.He said he swapped the wheat for more Munich I believe to combat a head issue.He said it was to thick and creamy,I say blasphemy,Theres no such thing as too thick and creamy....I brewed it as the original recipe and personally wouldn't change it as I see no reason to....To each there own.I would brew it as it is to see what you think and adjust the next batch to taste.
 
If you're looking for a more malty finished beer, try using an English ale yeast (WLP002/007/013, S-04 etc.)
 
If you are correct about not liking the "thin" mouthfeel of your beers, you could up the wheat significantly or use some flaked stuff. Most NE IPAs have a notable amount of flaked wheat
 
IMO you are doing everything right to have a "thicker" beer.

Mash temps are good and so is the malt bill.

Carapils malt consistently increases foam, improves head retention and enhances mouthfeel without adding flavor or color to your beer.

Caramel 60 is a widely used, versatile, medium crystal malt that will contribute a rich sweetness, and pleasant toasted bread and pronounced, full caramel flavor with a light reddish hue. Use 3-15% in numerous beer styles for enhanced body and foam stability as well as additional flavor and color. 60°L

White wheat has a doughy, malty, bready flavor and aroma, with white wheat having a slightly milder wheat flavor than red wheat. High protein levels in wheat lend a fullness of body and excellent head retention, but can lead to difficulty sparging. Use small amounts to enhance foam, or use up to 50% of the grist.

You sure you're temps were correct?
 
unviewtiful said:
If you're looking for a more malty finished beer, try using an English ale yeast (WLP002/007/013, S-04 etc.)
Click to expand...

Not sure lack of a 'malty' flavor is what I'm pushing for. Although, I have thought about trying an 04 as an experiment,
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
Correct I was reffering to planbr,didnt notice he chimed in.He said he swapped the wheat for more Munich I believe to combat a head issue.He said it was to thick and creamy,I say blasphemy,Theres no such thing as too thick and creamy....I brewed it as the original recipe and personally wouldn't change it as I see no reason to....To each there own.I would brew it as it is to see what you think and adjust the next batch to taste.
Click to expand...

Well I do think the beer has way too much head so maybe he is onto something :)

But I lay that on a combo of using Carapils and white wheat. Swapping out white wheat for munich doesn't answer the Carapils issue. Do I still leave that in? Hmm....gotta think that one out.
 
Looks good. Brew it! I'd mash at 148-152 for 60. Fly sparge. Maybe add some mosaic to the flame out.
 
OK this will be a dumb ass question but you do mean Munich malt and not Caramunich right?
 
m00ps said:
If you are correct about not liking the "thin" mouthfeel of your beers, you could up the wheat significantly or use some flaked stuff. Most NE IPAs have a notable amount of flaked wheat
Click to expand...

or flaked oats; the very popular Lawson clone recipe has flaked oats in lieu of wheat in the mash, and some sugar at :15 to bump the booze

I've used both flaked wheat and flaked oats (not in the same batch, at least not yet) and they seem to add a dimension to the mouthfeel.

Another observation I'd add, you might look for a northeast style yeast. My personal best efforts came from using bottle harvested stuff that really seemed to focus the flavor toward that juicy hoppy style
 
Dry hopping adds a definite mouthfeel. I've experimented with kegging a gallon un-dryhopped, and serving it side-by-side with a well dryhopped batch. Aside from flavor and aroma, the non-dryhopped batch comes through as light in body, while the dry hopped batch will have a viscosity to it. I believe it's from the resin saturation (be it classically resinous, i.e. "Dank", or otherwise. Even the bright fruity stuff is resin).

To me, 3 oz is a light dry hop. 5-6 oz is my minimum, without hesitation to go with more, possibly split into 2 doses.

That's my $0.02.
 
IMO your recipe is good.
It can merely be simplified by increasing your wheat, and dropping your crystal, and compensating with carapils.
Simple as.

at least 1lb of Wheat ( you could go to 2lbs if you wanted, and you'd get a nice crackery sweeter backbone from the wheat than you would the munich IMO)
increase you carapils maybe 1lb as well
Make sure your water adjustments are good as well.

One other thing I'd say, is increase your dryhop, but use something other than Citra 3oz of citra is heaps, but something to offset it, to play well with it.
If you have amarillo (Your flameout) add some of that as well maybe an oz.
 
Wow there's a lot out there already but I'll add my 2 cents.

I've done a few variations on IPA grain bills. If I'm going for not sweet but complex in flavor I'll add equal parts MO and Munich to replace some 2row and mash around 152-154. If I think I might like a bit of sweetness accompanying that "character" I'll add about 5% of UK crystal malt. I like the UK 45L more than the US malts. It has more flavor and is more forgiving on the sweet character than the 60 to my palate.
That being said, if I use crystal I mash lower around 146-150 tops. And I almost always have a half pound of flaked wheat in any IPA.
 
TAK said:
Dry hopping adds a definite mouthfeel. I've experimented with kegging a gallon un-dryhopped, and serving it side-by-side with a well dryhopped batch. Aside from flavor and aroma, the non-dryhopped batch comes through as light in body, while the dry hopped batch will have a viscosity to it. I believe it's from the resin saturation (be it classically resinous, i.e. "Dank", or otherwise. Even the bright fruity stuff is resin).

To me, 3 oz is a light dry hop. 5-6 oz is my minimum, without hesitation to go with more, possibly split into 2 doses.

That's my $0.02.
Click to expand...

I won't argue with you on the dry hopped batch having viscosity or more mouth feel.

But I will say the 3oz being light thing is off. It comes down to your hops with dry hopping. How fresh are they? What hop type?

I know this because I've done numerous side by side tests. For example a fresh 3oz of dry hopped citra blows away 3oz amarillo.

Never underestimate the power of fresh hops :)
 
crusader1612 said:
IMO your recipe is good.
It can merely be simplified by increasing your wheat, and dropping your crystal, and compensating with carapils.
Simple as.

at least 1lb of Wheat ( you could go to 2lbs if you wanted, and you'd get a nice crackery sweeter backbone from the wheat than you would the munich IMO)
increase you carapils maybe 1lb as well
Make sure your water adjustments are good as well.

One other thing I'd say, is increase your dryhop, but use something other than Citra 3oz of citra is heaps, but something to offset it, to play well with it.
If you have amarillo (Your flameout) add some of that as well maybe an oz.
Click to expand...

There is a ton of hop aroma and flavor in this recipe. A ton. So I don't think that is the issue. I've also used this same grain bill with other hop combos and same result, a little less backbone than I want.

I already have plenty of head in this grain bill so I'm thinking adding more carapils is not the way to go.
 
stylus1274 said:
There is a ton of hop aroma and flavor in this recipe. A ton. So I don't think that is the issue. I've also used this same grain bill with other hop combos and same result, a little less backbone than I want.

I already have plenty of head in this grain bill so I'm thinking adding more carapils is not the way to go.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. the carapils will also add some sweetness, as you say you dont want it too dry. plus i'll secondtheres no such thing as too much head. (pun intended)
but definitely add more wheat. i love wheat in ipa's.

as a side note on the hops, you'll find that citra, while it has alot of aroma can be a little one dimensional for me. lots or aroma, but not alot of backbone, hops can add to the backbone of the beer, which is why i always like to put hops in combination. amarillo is a great option.
I'd almost call it a layering hop. if you get what i mean.
 
crusader1612 said:
as a side note on the hops, you'll find that citra, while it has alot of aroma can be a little one dimensional for me. lots or aroma, but not alot of backbone, hops can add to the backbone of the beer, which is why i always like to put hops in combination. amarillo is a great option.
I'd almost call it a layering hop. if you get what i mean.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. with the layering thing. Just brewed one with amarilo and citra and it is getting close. The next one will have the munich as suggested and I am throwing in a combo of citra/mosaic/amarillo.
 
I made an IPA today that was 22 pounds two row, 2 pounds Munich malt, 1.5 pounds crystal 40L and 1 pound wheat.

It's an 11 gallon batch.

It probably would have what you are looking for- Malt backbone from the Munich malt, a bit of color, flavor and head retention from the crystal malt, and some body and head from the 3.8% wheat malt.

Munich malt is a great ingredient to give malt richness and flavor without sweetness. Alternatively, you could use aromatic malt in a lesser amount (it's a Munich malt on steroids), or use maris otter or golden promise for the base malt.

If you don't mind a haze, you could try adding a bit of flaked barley, say .5 pound, to give you body and a rocky head. I've never used that in an IPA, but I use it in darker beers where I want some body and mouthfeel.
 
I like the idea of adding munich Yooper. I already have white wheat so I'm not looking to explore that route in a different manor.

Let us know how awesome your brew comes out :)
 
All good advice so far.

I just want to ask what water profile you're using. If you're using Brun Water's recommended pale ale profile, you could try dialing back the sulfate some.
 
stylus1274 said:
I am just using tap water.
Click to expand...

Well, that certainly gives you an opportunity to start adjusting your water to help you reach your goal! If you feel like you're already most of the way there, than I definitely think you can get the rest of the way by using an appropriate water profile (unless your water is already on par, although that's somewhat unlikely). It's at least worth investigating.
 
There are a lot of Munich malts. The one I think that most people are suggesting is Light Munich (9-10L). I was going to say that although it's not fashionable these days, a little 40L Crystal goes a long way.

@Yooper has BOTH Munich and 40L in her recipe so I can't be wrong!
 
Barley_Bob said:
Well, that certainly gives you an opportunity to start adjusting your water to help you reach your goal! If you feel like you're already most of the way there, than I definitely think you can get the rest of the way by using an appropriate water profile (unless your water is already on par, although that's somewhat unlikely). It's at least worth investigating.
Click to expand...

Here is my thought on this.

Not sure if you ever heard of Cigar City Brewing. They are 'the' local brewer here. They make a fantastic IPA. By fantastic I mean by far one of the best I've ever tasted.

Anyways, I directly talked to their brewer and the straight up use city water (tap). So I thought, if it's good enough for them it's good enough for me.

Take that comment for what you will. I'm definitely not saying they don't 'work' their water.
 
stylus1274 said:
Here is my thought on this.



Not sure if you ever heard of Cigar City Brewing. They are 'the' local brewer here. They make a fantastic IPA. By fantastic I mean by far one of the best I've ever tasted.



Anyways, I directly talked to their brewer and the straight up use city water (tap). So I thought, if it's good enough for them it's good enough for me.



Take that comment for what you will. I'm definitely not saying they don't 'work' their water.
Click to expand...


You're right that about that for sure. They may use tap water but they may also "Doctor" it up a bit.

I would look at a water report for your area just to know what to have. I use my tap water and cut it with DI if I need to and then build back where I want to be. for IPAs it's pretty good. But it might use some CaSO4 to some peoples taste.

Water can change the taste of your brew but I think some lightly kilned malts are what you're looking for before your mess with water.
 
Denny's favorite 50 yeast can also improve mouthfeel, I use it in many brews now.

Also, I agree that you should look into what your water has in it.
 

Similar threads

jturman35
Red IPA recipe
Replies
16
Views
2K
Indian_villager
I
R
Tweaking a recipe
Replies
12
Views
941
redrocker652002
R
R
Italian Pils
Replies
16
Views
1K
Ulisses4677
Ulisses4677
S
Session IPA recipe critique
Replies
15
Views
744
refect
refect
F
Advice on developing clone of Mast Landing "Windbreaker" NEIPA?
Replies
4
Views
733
poptarts
poptarts

Latest posts

Back
Top