My first lager!

[TheDeepDarkDerp]

My small basement cellar has finally really reached lagering temp (53F according to a glass of water placed in it). I thought I'd give myself an easy one on my first lager and make a Brewer's Best Oktoberfest. It's easy because of the saflager-23 that is a lager yeast that can be fermented at ale temperatures. I know my technique isn't perfect but I'd like to get your opinions to see if I got this lager thing down.

1- pitch dry yeast packet onto 68F wort
2- let sit until fermentation activity can be seen
3- place carboy into cellar at 53F
4- ferment for 12 days
5- bring carboy up to 62 for rest for 2 days
6- place carboy in 35F fridge for 4 weeks

Will following these steps be enough to get that crisp and clean lager taste?

 

[Weezy]

Here's some tips...

1. You need to pitch double the amount of yeast vs. Ales. If its a 5 gal batch, pitch 2 packets.

2. Rehydrate the yeast in some water warmed in the microwave before pitching. Temp in the 80-90°F range. Sprinkle some on top of the water until it sinks then sprinkle some more. Take your time and you'll have non-clumpy happy yeast ready to go.

3. Place the fermenter in the cool area and let it stabilize at the ~53°F, then pitch the yeast. Pitching warm then letting it chill van be counter productive. The yeast will be happier if you just let them acclimate and start working at the appropriate fermentation temp. Pitching warm is an old hombres habit that forces the yeast to get started sooner, but it runs the risk of the yeast putting out esters that you don't want. S23 will be quite happy at 53. It'll free rise some but it'll be fine.

Have fun with it!

 

[JonM]

+1 to all of the above.

You'll DEFINITELY need two 11.5 gram packages of S-23 yeast. One will be a bad underpitch. Otherwise, looks good!

 

[Darwin18]

1- pitch dry yeast packet onto 68F wort
2- let sit until fermentation activity can be seen
3- place carboy into cellar at 53F
4- ferment for 12 days
5- bring carboy up to 62 for rest for 2 days
6- place carboy in 35F fridge for 4 weeks

This is my process:

1. Pitch enough yeast (using Mr. Malty or other yeast pitching calc) five degrees or so below my target fermentation temperature. This is very important as it will eliminate most fermentation taste flaws including diacetyl.

2. Start it at cellar - do not ferment it at 68F.

3. Ferment it until is done. Do not set a time frame for this. Lagers take longer to ferment than lagers. I usually go for 3 - 4 weeks in primary for my lagers.

4. Do you diacetyl rest as fermentation is winding down. You'll need to take hydrometer readings to know when. If you pitch below your fermentation temp range and keep it from going above, then you may not need to a diacetyl rest.

5. If you keg, transfer to the keg connect the gas and let it lager at the same time.

 

[Yooper]

This is my process:

1. Pitch enough yeast (using Mr. Malty or other yeast pitching calc) five degrees or so below my target fermentation temperature. This is very important as it will eliminate most fermentation taste flaws including diacetyl.

2. Start it at cellar - do not ferment it at 68F.

3. Ferment it until is done. Do not set a time frame for this. Lagers take longer to ferment than lagers. I usually go for 3 - 4 weeks in primary for my lagers.

4. Do you diacetyl rest as fermentation is winding down. You'll need to take hydrometer readings to know when. If you pitch below your fermentation temp range and keep it from going above, then you may not need to a diacetyl rest.

5. If you keg, transfer to the keg connect the gas and let it lager at the same time.

Mine is similar:

1. cool wort to 50 degrees, pitch yeast and place at 52 degrees (or whatever I"m fermenting at)

2. Ferment about 10 days, and then a diacetyl rest. This is when fermentation starts to wind down, or the beer is about 75% done.

3. Do the diacetyl rest.

4. Rack, and hold at 34 degrees for 4-6 weeks.

That's it!

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Lager yeast that "can" ferment at ale temps doesn't mean it's a great idea to do so.

I'm with Darwin18 and Yooper on this. Cool the wort to *below* fermentation temp prior to pitch. Pitch and do your best to keep fermentation temps (not ambient temps!) in the low 50's.

I find for my lagers, a D-rest at the 12-14 day mark is fine. I then cool it and hold as cold as the fridge will go for as long as I can stand it to wait.

I will say that I've done several lagers with SafLager W-34/70 and loved them all. My most recent one (Oktoberfest) may be the best beer I've ever brewed, because it is the second beer I've used RO water with mineral additions. I've also used SafLager S-23 and Mangrove Jack's M84, and didn't like either of them nearly as much as the beers done with W-34/70.

Is it too late for you to change yeast?

 

[Cyclman]

+1 with a strong healthy pitch at or a little below ferm temp, d-rest, then I do 1 week lagering per 10 gravity points (1.060 wort gets 6 weeks).

I have a Surly Smoke clone fermenting right now, it smells wonderful. Don't want to have to wait months for it to age out!

 

[TheDeepDarkDerp]

Wow! Thanks everyone for all the advice.

So for my Oktoberfest it was to late because I had already pitched the yeast following my original steps.

I had a pilsner kit I used and did as was mentioned and pitched it at below 50F.

Do you think that having the Oktoberfest fest at about 66 for 24hs before lowering to low 50s will have a big effect on the beer?

 

[Darwin18]

That's kind of like asking if having a pale ale at 78 for 24 hours before lowering to the mid 60's would have a big effect. The answer to both is yes.

 

[progmac]

A lot of home brewers successfully pitch their lagers warm and allow the yeast to multiply before cooling to the lower 50s. I vary my pitch temp based on how much yeast I have available. Rarely do I feel like making a full batch of starter beer or a one gallon starter!

 

[Darwin18]

A lot of home brewers successfully pitch their lagers warm and allow the yeast to multiply before cooling to the lower 50s. I vary my pitch temp based on how much yeast I have available. Rarely do I feel like making a starter beer or gallon starter!

That's honestly not a great practice. It takes 15 - 20 minutes to make a 2L starter a few nights before brew day. If you don't want to make a starter then you should be using dry yeast.

Pitching lager yeast warm will certainly increase fermentation activity but it will result in off-flavors that are easily avoided if you pitch a sufficient starter into cool wort.

 

[progmac]

That's honestly not a great practice. It takes 15 - 20 minutes to make a 2L starter a few nights before brew day. If you don't want to make a starter then you should be using dry yeast.

Pitching lager yeast warm will certainly increase fermentation activity but it will result in off-flavors that are easily avoided if you pitch a sufficient starter into cool wort.

When I first pitched a lager warm and then cooled, I was quite surprised at how nice it came out. I do use a lot of nutrients, pure o2, and have even degassed a couple days into fermentation. I'm not saying a warm start is best but I do think it is legitimate practice when done right.

What I've noticed on the forum that a lot of brewers pitch small quantities of lager yeast but then practice a cool start to their fermentation instead of the warm start that they ought to be using when they aren't pitching a lot of yeast. Then they come on here wondering why their beer won't start fermenting or has a lot of sulfur.

 

[wobdee]

So what's the difference between using a lager starter that was propagated a room temps verses just pitching liquid or dry lager yeast warm then dropping the temp after fermentation begins? Doesn't both grow yeast at warmer temps then ferment at cooler temps?

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

So what's the difference between using a lager starter that was propagated a room temps verses just pitching liquid or dry lager yeast warm then dropping the temp after fermentation begins? Doesn't both grow yeast at warmer temps then ferment at cooler temps?

A lot of folks making lager starters are making *big* starters. 2L to 4L easily. In those cases, most of those folks may ferment the starter warmer, but then decant the starter beer off because that high of a volume will change the flavor of the beer they're making. If there are some off flavors or excessive esters in their starter, it won't matter, because that's getting poured down the sink when they decand.

If you do this *in* your beer, you'll end up with all those off flavors or excessive esters in your beer.

That said, I can't say I've ever compared the two processes side-by-side. I always cool to below my target fermentation temp, and then pitch a LOT of yeast (4 packs dry yeast for 10 gallons wort) and allow it to rise to my target fermentation. I use dry yeast, so I don't have to worry about starters anyway.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

A lot of home brewers successfully pitch their lagers warm and allow the yeast to multiply before cooling to the lower 50s.

So I've heard. To me, I view there being a difference between "acceptable" and "best practice" technique. My thought is that if you want the best lager you can possibly make, you should pitch the proper amount of yeast and start it cold. I know that at least one of HBT's respected authorities agrees with me:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers#Cold_vs._Warm_pitching

Can you make tasty beer with warm pitching? I'm sure you can. All else being equal, will it be as good as beer made with proper pitch rates pitched cold? I'd have to see evidence before I'd try pitching warm. I'm inclined to say no.