Muntons Stout Best Before Jan 2010

[phug]

my FIL has dug up a can of Munton's Irish Stout extract that lists best before Jan 2010. We want bang it out to see what we end up with as it won't take much time, and even if bad, we won't be out much in materials or effort or time.

We're going to toss the old yeast, and use a new packet of S-04. However he thinks that the kit will need some new hops.

So the question is. Does hop bitterness in canned/hopped extract fade over time?

I know extract will darken over time, but really, it's a stout, this is of no concern. And if the the hop bitterness fades, what's my best option for adding bitterness without much hop aroma/flavour, since most stouts would have only a single 60 min addition, and hope aroma/flavour should be minimal if present?

I'm thinking boiling the hot water addition for 60 minutes, with a small quantity of hops, making a hop tea, and then mixing the extract with that water before mixing in the suggested amount of cold water.

Suggestions? thoughts? anyone want to find out if we die? (seriously though, no one will die)

 

[mdindy]

It is certainly worth a shot, I woukd recomend using magnum hops. It's my go to neutral high alpha acid hop for situations like this.

 

[phug]

for extra bittering, I was contemplating using some UK Admiral (13% AA) or Ahtanum (13% AA) that I have on hand already ( the Admiral is opened, but vacuum re-realed, the Ahtanum is not opened.)

so I'd have to figure out what quantity of 13% AA hops would give me an extra 10 IBU or so, in a 60 minute boil, and then putting that into the hot water. Knowing full well that my utilisation will be impacted by the fact that it's water, not wort, and that the volume will be well shy of the total amount of beer.

 

[ncbrewer]

I don't know if the hops in a hopped extract will fade with time. But if they do, and you need to provide more hops, I'd be more inclined to boil the extract with the water and hops for an hour. I understand that the "hop tea" idea has been done, but as I understand it, the results are a little questionable. Definitely more standard to boil with some extract.

 

[solbes]

Old extract does not make good beer, at least in my one and only case of trying to do so.

But I would do the same as you, give it a go and see what happens. Is this a 20 minute boil kit and thats why you are considering adding hops to boiling water for 60 minutes? I would just add a little more and boil for 20 minutes to hit your +10 IBU requirement. Shouldn't take much of the admirial you have on hand. Plus if you can taste the admiral hops over your 6-7 year old extract, that won't necessarily be a bad thing

 

[phug]

Old extract does not make good beer, at least in my one and only case of trying to do so.

But I would do the same as you, give it a go and see what happens. Is this a 20 minute boil kit and thats why you are considering adding hops to boiling water for 60 minutes? I would just add a little more and boil for 20 minutes to hit your +10 IBU requirement. Shouldn't take much of the admirial you have on hand. Plus if you can taste the admiral hops over your 6-7 year old extract, that won't necessarily be a bad thing

It's actually a no boil kit+kilo type pre-hopped extract in a can kit. - the kilo, as a 4% dry stout is fine with me and my FIL.

http://www.muntonshomebrew.com/premium-range/irish-style-stout/

except with a very old label. I have no idea what the lag time is between date of issue, and the best before date. so we might be looking at a can of extract that's 10 years since it saw the inside of a store.

 

[solbes]

Ah okay. Maybe you could make a small 0.5 gallon boil with the hops and some DME? Add 1 cup of DME to 2 quarts of water and boil it up?

I don't have any advice for hops in boiling water, but hopefully someone else does.

 

[phug]

Finally brewed this batch. Wanted to make it with my father in law since he gave me the can of stout extract. Man he's got a hectic schedule for a retired guy.

Threw in a kilo of fresh light dry malt extract. Was going to add some fresh hops but we had so many other issues it was ridiculous.

I went to go find my hydro, and while I was in the basement with my 10 month old there was a boil over incident. Massive mess. We got everything cleaned up. And pitched a fresh packet of s-04.

We reduced the water volume to account for the loss of sugars somewhat. So the Sg was about 1.033 instead of the listed 1.036-1.040.

The can smelled of soy sauce to me when we opened it, which I've had on a very dark all grain brew before. And my brewing partner Sao fit smelled right when he added it to the hot water. So I'm not terribly worried.

I did have to go back to clean out some extract that got in between the inside and outside glass of the oven doors. Had to take them apart to get that cleaned out.

Even worse is the fact that I had Fermcap and just forgot to use it.

Btw, this was my first extract batch after a dozen or all grain biab batches

 

[phug]

Pulled a hydro sample today. Only fermented down to 1.013 and it started about 1.034. Seems fine otherwise.

View attachment 1455039736382.jpg

 

[phug]

My FIL is a maniac. He came over to bottle today and I let him do the priming sugar, and he casually said that he used to use a cup of sugar to prime. So I held my tongue, except to say that this was going to be one fizzy stout. As he's dissolving the sugar, he added a bit more. This was for 5.54 gallons at 63f. I've gone back to do my own math, and it looks like we're headed for 3.8 volumes. My half was bottled in German wheat beer swingtops, so I'm reasonably certain it'll hold it, but his half was bottled in old 1970s returnable stubbies, I'm not entirely sure how those will do.

I held back two of those and put them into a plastic storage bin while they carb, along with the rest of mine. I'll open one in two weeks and then carefully open it so that I can let him know if he's in for a surprise since he's not drinking for lent.

Wish me luck.

 

[solbes]

Will have to pour carefully at 3.8 vols. Potential gushers. Not what I would want in a stout. But this whole batch is a bit of a free gamble, so why not let the chips get stacked a little higher? :rockin:

How did the hydro sample taste? Twang-y at all?

 

[phug]

That's sort of what I thought. Why not let it ride. It will be interesting though.

Hydro sample tasted good, and the flat partial bottle left over from the bottling bucket that I drank today after lunch was just fantastic. Sweet smooth, and a bit roasty. I'm looking forward to my bottles.

Unfortunately for FIL the bottles he brought over after a hasty wash may still have had some crud on the bottom.

I bottled 15 bottles for him that were his old bottles that I had washed, and the other 18 were the ones he brought over that had probably sat for the last 10-15 years untouched. Because of the ones I had cleaned he had ten or so extras that I was going to put back in my stash. Most had a faint ring of crud around the bottoms that I pbwed and scrubbed clean and squeaky before putting away.

I almost want to tell him, but on the other hand I'll be telling him and his long history of homebrewing that he doesn't know how to suck eggs.

 

[phug]

Popped one open today. It's nice. It's sweet, smooth, full bodied, and a bit earthy on the finish. It poured with a thick tan head.

 

[phug]

For the record, not dead or suffering from gastro issues

 

[phug]

end result. It turned out as more of a sweet stout. I'm going to blame 5-6 extra years of maillard reactions.

I'm really enjoying it. As for the carbonation level, properly chilled it's not an issue. Brought up from cellar temps, it will foam over on opening, but it's not properly gushing. Unless there's a bottle infection they should be fine.

I had one with some french vanilla icecream last night as a float. mixed up with the ice cream it was very tasty.

 

[kadozen]

Wow, what a ride this thread was. Congratulations on the brew. Someone gifted me a brewers best dry stout kit about a year ago and I was considering getting rid of it. The kit you guys did was far older so I think I'll brew it up. Had to cancel brew day this weekend initially since I decided to buy a converted kegarator instead of getting ingredients because the price was super cheap. 2 tap converted side-by-side for $225US. The only thing it doesn't come with are kegs, but I now have a ferm chamber till I get them.

 

[phug]

I'm glad it helped you decide to get a brew day out of that kit

 

[phug]

so I've been sitting on this batch and drinking it very slowly because it pours so much dang foam. and sitting, and sitting. the other day it dawned on me. You goof, you bottled these all in swingtops. just go downstairs, and pop the top quickly on the whole batch and close it up. that ought to reduce the carb level to something manageable.

so I did, and man, if I thought those were gassy when they were chilled, they're way more so when they're at 65F. Some of those were loud when I opened them. After the first one, I started opening them in the bathroom over the tub, which, I'm sure didn't help with the noise level. So ran through the batch once, and will probably do it at least once more, and then put one in the fridge to drink and check the carb level. If it's still to high, I'll do it again to the rest of the case, and so on.

Again, not dead yet, and no tum tum troubles from this batch.

 

[dcbw]

The warmer the liquid/beer, the harder it is to keep CO2 in. So a beer at 65 will have much more headspace pressure than one at 40 since some CO2 has come out of solution into the headspace due to the increased temperature.

 

[phug]

The warmer the liquid/beer, the harder it is to keep CO2 in. So a beer at 65 will have much more headspace pressure than one at 40 since some CO2 has come out of solution into the headspace due to the increased temperature.

You're absolutely right. However even at 35f they're still bubbly and gassy as all get out. So they are in need of pressure releif