Mumme'-German gruit ale BIAB

[unionrdr]

Since I finally have enough of the ingredients to brew this one, I decided to place the brew thread here from General Beer Discussion before the big move. Old computer hard drive fubared, wife bought me a new one for Father's Day. Lost some files for some reason or other? Found a page with the Mumme' recipe on it I'd saved originally, here; https://distantmirror.wordpress.com/2010/01/18/brewing-a-medieval-mumm-ale/
The recipe I originally listed is down page, here; https://distantmirror.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/medieval-mumm-recipe1.jpg
So, anyway, I'm prepping the man cave/brewery to start on this one Saturday morning for sure! I'll have to use the old memory card, unless Best Buy will let me turn in the bad extreme pro 64GB one I got that won't unlock? Wanna shoot a video of the brew in HD for my Brewvision channel. I'll try to resolve that issue Friday on retiree pay day. I'm eager to get this one going, even thought the BS2 recipe for this and hybrid lager V4 are MIA?!...
This old German fest beer goes back at least 100 years before Columbus sailed for our side of the planet looking for a direct rout to the Indies. It contained various plants that can harm or even poison internal organs. They were used for their hallucinogenic effects. They were used in the days when the Church gained control of the sale of gruit herbs. These wild plants were cheaper substitutes for expensive herbs. So I've subbed in the herbs they replaced as listed in the recipe pic. I'll be updating this thread as I go along with this old fest brew...
*PS- I'll be going through the grains I already bought for this one, along with the yeast, etc to reconstruct the lost recipe starting today. Need to have that ready by Friday night to brew it Saturday. 4 days after fermentation starts, a grain bag of the remaining herbs is traditionally added to primary as well & allowed to ferment out.

 

[StrngBrewer]

That sounds fun. Where are you sourcing the stranger ingredients?

 

[hagar]

Very interested in hearing how this one comes along. I've done a gruit with the 3 traditional herbs, and it turned out great. I'd love to try this one eventually.

 

[unionrdr]

That sounds fun. Where are you sourcing the stranger ingredients?

Very interested in hearing how this one comes along. I've done a gruit with the 3 traditional herbs, and it turned out great. I'd love to try this one eventually.

I got most of the herbs from Herbco & amazon. Monterey spice co comes to mind as well. gotta search old documents on external drive to get links into new computer. got'em online at any rate. I'll list the recipe as I have it re-input in a bit. I found the original thread in General discussion & bumped it for y'all to catch up on the original postings.

 

[unionrdr]

OK here's the recipe list so far;
*************Mystic Mumme'************************
6 gallon old German Gruit ale (strong ale like English Barleywine)
*****mash***********
1lb) Great Northern beans, boiled, then simmered 20 minutes. Mashed before adding to mash. Original recipe ground dried beans then added to mash.
4ozs) chocolate malt (Crisp)
11.2ozs) Crystal 10L (Briess)
1lb) Malted oats, US
1lb, 11.2ozs) Wheat malt, pale (Weyermann's)
3lbs, 8oz) Pale malt, (Weyermann's)
So far, I've got a 1 hour mash at 155F. Original was like 2 hours @ 150F. Not sure which way I'll go on this part?
**************************************
2 packets) Wyeast 1275 Thames valley ale yeast. Lists temp range of 62-72F.
After four days of initial, primary fermentation of the first 5 1/2 gallons of wort, boil the herbs & spices in 1/2 gallon of water 5-10 minutes, cover & cool to within 10 degrees of current wort temp. Add bag of gruit herbs/spices, liquid & all to fermenter to make 6 gallons final recipe volume. Allow to ferment out completely.
The numbers look this way so far, with the pound of beans an unknown gravity addition...
***English Barleywine***
Est OG- 1.077
Est FG- 1.018
Color- 17.5 SRM
Est ABV- 7.8%

 

[unionrdr]

I forgot to buy northern beans yesterday, so I sub'd a pound of Goya " small white beans"...navy beans? Got'em on the stove to bring to a boil, then simmer 20 minutes per original recipe. Then take'em off the heat until they can be added to the mash. From what I've read on this one, they were ground, cooked & added to the mash? Seems to me I'll have to account for the liquid volume for the entire mash volume?
* Well, hell. Tip of the day- NEVER trust dropbox to properly work memory cards. It saw the first pic I accidentally took before 2 takes of video for the brew day. I had to reload the old Lexmark printer software to get a card reader/writer/processor that works as expected. Then the beans were taking a heck of a lot more than 20 minutes to simmer to soft. I forgot to soak'em overnight. I'm so damn frustrated, especially after figuring out what's wrong with the BC mill that I'm quitting while I'm ahead. Shiz gets fubared when Bulk get angry...start again in the morning.

 

[unionrdr]

OK, brew day, take two. Here's part one of the brew day video I shot yesterday. I'm going to get the mash water started in a bit, which must also account for the liquid on the cooked pound of beans. They'll be roughly mashed & added to the main mash with the grains. If all goes well, part 2 will be posted this evening...

** Wondered why the mash water was taking so long to heat up? Had the wrong darn element turned on! It just has circles in box corners to show which one is on, & which range is on on the front ones.

 

[unionrdr]

Well, the beans stirred into the mash water easier than I thought. Mixed well with the grains too. About 1:22 left on the 90 minute mash. I'm getting even more curious how well this'll all work out. After all that research & recipe planning, it's all come down to the bare mechanics of the brew & what skills I bring to it all?!

 

[beergolf]

I would suggest a skill you need to learn. Edit man, learn to edit. 7+ minutes of you putzing with your grain mill. REALLY?

It could be interesting brewing an old forgotten beer, but not with a video like that.

 

[unionrdr]

You'd be surprised how much I edited out?! And I'd have to get up & manually shut off the camera do it on the fly with no remote. And talking about what I'm doing, etc during the parts I'd have to cut out would mess with continuity. But I see your point. Geez, everybody's a critic...trying to keep my mind on brewing & the video & being in constant pain ain't easy...

 

[beergolf]

You can edit it after you shoot.DUH.

I am interested in the idea of a historic beer, watching these videos is painful. You did it again in this video, REALLY? three minutes + of looking at your back while you put water in a jug. And watching a mash adds many more minutes. Zero info about an interesting beer and the most banal info I have ever seen. Zero info at all.

These two videos could ( 25 minutes) could have been edited down to less than 2 minutes and still not have given much info. Give us some more content besides mundane brewing steps.

 

[unionrdr]

I covered the recipe, wild plants vs common herbs, etc in two earlier videos. I'll repost them here. But after due consideration, I wondered, what the heck I was thinking? After watching all those videos by Craigtube, Steeljan & several others, I wondered why those styles never crossed my mind? Guess I was too mentally busy with brew day & filming too? Damn.
But I only have one camera & a 5 ft tripod. Something told me I should've gotten the 6 ft? Not tall enough to see down into the kettle, like the videos mentioned. Anyway, see what you think of these two earlier ones that cover some other things. Not a lot of historical info on mumme', since recipes were trade &/or family secrets. But, I have thought of changing the next one in the brewery today to recap. It got so late (for me), I was definitely a lil toasty. Here's the earlier ones I may make into a playlist...

 

[unionrdr]

OK, I rearranged my Brewvision playlist. The German Mumme' videos are in order at the top, with the most recent beer videos after that, etc. I still can't find the button to create a custom playlist on YouTube?
I thought it might make things a bit clearer, looking back to when the recipe, etc was discussed?

Speaking of recipes, I strained the wort into primary & topped off to 5.5 gallons, or 20.82L. OG was 1.074 against Est 1.077 for 6 gallons. In 4 days, I add bag of herbs, plants, spices, etc boiled in 1/2 gallon of spring water to make 6 gallons, or 23L.
* I hope this link plays the whole list?

 

[unionrdr]

Also, going by the use it within 6 months of printed date rule, the WY1275 Thames Valley Ale yeast pouches should've been used by May 1st. Even though they were shipped to me in ice packs, they were inflated a bit. Hasn't started yet since being pitched @ 12:20PM yesterday. Not too worried...yet!
** Yeast was dated Nov 2015, good until May this year, 6 months later. No foam. no nothing, since pitching at the time listed yesterday. They always start buy early to mid-morning...this time bhttp://cryptobrewology.com/home-brewing-tips/the-scoop-on-powdered-oxygen-based-cleansersnot a bloody thing. Son has to work all day tomorrow, JW Dover closed through today for the 4th. Dammit, they would've been open til 8PM too...l'm fooked.

 

[passedpawn]

[moved to Recipes]

 

[unionrdr]

Funny I never noticed this forum in the list? It's not AG, but still biab? So being PM, it doesn't go in the BIAB forum? I'm confused? Anyway, there's no visible signs of infection, being sealed with a blow off rig at the moment. If my son doesn't have to be at work til this afternoon, I can get to the lhbs for some kind of yeast?...

 

[Yooper]

Funny I never noticed this forum in the list? It's not AG, but still biab? So being PM, it doesn't go in the BIAB forum? I'm confused? Anyway, there's no visible signs of infection, being sealed with a blow off rig at the moment. If my son doesn't have to be at work til this afternoon, I can get to the lhbs for some kind of yeast?...

The "recipe" area is where we place all recipes, ingredients, ideas, etc.

The BIAB forum is strictly for BIAB technique and brewing that is only related to BIAB and not other methods, say, talking about how mashing is different with BIAB vs other AG methods. The AG forum is for threads specifically related to AG/Partial mash brewing and techniques, like mash thickness, etc. The header says "Discussion, tips and techniques on brewing from grain".

Recipes and ingredients go in the recipe/ingredient area. Whether a recipe is BIAB or PM, it's still the same recipe and ingredients- so there can definitely be some confusion! We try to keep all recipe threads in the recipe/ingredient forum to help others looking for those type of threads.

 

[unionrdr]

Some Confusion??? I'm totally dazed & confused! Sounds like a lot of grey area to me? I just don't get it, & I was always a quick learner. General foremen & area superintendents have feared me because I'm honest, work hard & learn fast! But I'm at a loss with too many grey areas concerning a couple forums? Not to be mean or anything, but they should be more clearly defined. This is a BIAB recipe, but not AG. It's PM, but also partial boil.
It's an ancient ale recipe, but not strictly AG or PM. No hops used, but rather gruits, which even Beersmith doesn't account for yet. So I'm left standing with one foot in this forum, the other in BIAB, & one hand in PM brewing. Twister, anyone?
Anyway,. it'll be at least 1PM before I can get my son to take me to JW Dover for yeast. Thank God it's not getting infected! And to see if they have screw-on caps for S. Pellegrino sparkling mineral water bottles. They'd be perfect for one gallon wine making. wife likes using Lambrusco for Chicken Cacciatore...or " drunk chicken" as she so amusingly calls it!

 

[Yooper]

Some Confusion??? I'm totally dazed & confused! Sounds like a lot of grey area to me? I just don't get it, & I was always a quick learner. General foremen & area superintendents have feared me because I'm honest, work hard & learn fast! But I'm at a loss with too many grey areas concerning a couple forums? Not to be mean or anything, but they should be more clearly defined. This is a BIAB recipe, but not AG. It's PM, but also partial boil.
It's an ancient ale recipe, but not strictly AG or PM. No hops used, but rather gruits, which even Beersmith doesn't account for yet. So I'm left standing with one foot in this forum, the other in BIAB, & one hand in PM brewing. Twister, anyone?
Anyway,. it'll be at least 1PM before I can get my son to take me to JW Dover for yeast. Thank God it's not getting infected! And to see if they have screw-on caps for S. Pellegrino sparkling mineral water bottles. They'd be perfect for one gallon wine making. wife likes using Lambrusco for Chicken Cacciatore...or " drunk chicken" as she so amusingly calls it!

I think that you explained it perfectly.

 

[unionrdr]

Ha ha! OK, fair enough. So, using the word recipe, or something, places it here? And the other pertinent forums are just there to discuss procedures?

 

[Yooper]

Ha ha! OK, fair enough. So, using the word recipe, or something, places it here? And the other pertinent forums are just there to discuss procedures?

Well, not necessarily the word 'recipe', but the idea of discussion of ingredients that goes into a beer and crafting the beer would be "recipes/ingredients" and fits well in this area of the forum.

 

[unionrdr]

OK, gotcha. Just had to clear that up in my aging mind. Gonna go to lhbs in a bit to see what yeast they have. WY1275 I had used, or maybe S-04? It's a 1.074 OG wort. Mumme' is said to resemble a barleywine, being a strong ale traditionally. Not sure which yeast, other than WY1275 can handle the ABV%?

 

[unionrdr]

Sat at JW Dover till 1:25, never opened? So we went to Cleveland Brew Shop in Ohio City & got two WLP 023, Burton Ale Yeast that he said was a sub for WY1275, Thames Valley Ale Yeast. Dumped those in @ 4:28. Let's see what happens this time?...
**! 5:11PM-WOW! That must've been some fresh yeast? It's bubbling a bit already!

 

[unionrdr]

The Mumme', steadily chugging away...

That WLP023 Burton Ale yeast is a strong, steady fermenter, like the 029 Kolsch yeast.

 

[unionrdr]

OK, due to a request, I'll try to post some more details about the beer & my decisions regarding it's constituents. The recipe page; https://distantmirror.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/medieval-mumm-recipe1.jpg And; https://distantmirror.wordpress.com/2010/01/18/brewing-a-medieval-mumm-ale/
I got many of the herbs & such from here; http://www.herbco.com/?
Regarding the actual internal properties of ingredients like Pennyroyal; https://www.consumerhealthdigest.com/ingredients/pennyroyal.html
And web MD; http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-480-PENNYROYAL.aspx?activeIngredientId=480&activeIngredientName=PENNYROYAL
And blessed Thistle;http://www.wisegeekhealth.com/what-is-blessed-thistle.htm
Sweet Gale; http://www.medicinenet.com/sweet_gale/supplements-vitamins.htm
Basically, looking at the health & safety concerns of the substitution plants, I just used the actual herbs/plants they took the place of as cheaper, wild & thus untaxed substitutions in medieval times that are safer than questionable wild plants. Besides, you have to know when during the season to use what part or parts of the plant & how. Otherwise, you could damage internal organs or processes.
** The first & fifth posts in this thread have the original recipe, then mine.
Germany & the UK had many messed up laws come along over the centuries where beer & ale were concerned. Like taxing everything that was used to make gruit ales, then trying to outlaw gruits when hops became widely known & used in place of them. Then taxing the resulting beers & ales. Then making the alewives look like a bunch of dumb hacks when the rich men realized what they were missing. Then 1516 & the Reinheitsgebot put the nail in the coffin for any manner of gruits. Control the beer & you control the populace.
Besides, this was a festival strong ale, said to resemble a barleywine. The English picked it up big time as a strong tonic. Small wonder, as some of those " questionable plants" got you a little high, besides the 7.8-to 9%+ getting you " higher than a Georgia pine" as pop used to say. Hey, some of those festivals went on for days. so they figured you had to have something to keep you going?

 

[unionrdr]

I found that it's pronounced " moo-muh". Well, here's some contradictory information from BYO; https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1170-mummes-the-word-style-profile This one claims it's the first beer not brewed with herbs in the October 2006 issue? WTF? The 1600's recipe is the opposite?
This one from the German Beer Institute supports the well-hopped bit too?; http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/Mumme.html
And, just to confuse things further, there's this one; http://eartheaglebrewings.com/are-you-my-mumme/
So, dear friends, it appears the original GERMAN Mumme was highly hopped, while the ENGLISH Mumme was a gruit ale. So mine is indeed the English knock-off. Now I'll have to do the German version as well!? Oh darn...
And the original(?) recipe they listed in the last link; http://eartheaglebrewings.com/wp-content/uploads/Mum-recipe-1695-low.jpg Upon reading this one, it is the English knock-off. I'll have to research the German version further to get the hop types.
More links, this one from six point; http://sixpoint.com/blog/mad-scientists-series/mad-scientists-series-18-brunswick-mumme/
And this one, which seems to be a blend of both styles?; http://www.essexonlakechamplain.com/events/browns-brewing-company-creates-brew-commemoration-battle-bennington/
Another interesting tidbit; http://lukecorbin.org/2015/braunschweiger-mumme/
And this link describes it as the oldest known Schwarzbier; http://www.barleysbrewing.com/ale/beer/black_bike_bier.html
And then, this one, calling Mumme the original winter warmer; http://www.beerstrengthmatters.com/?cat=1
And, of course, more details of it's history; http://www.beerstrengthmatters.com/?cat=1 further down page...

 

[unionrdr]

I boiled the gruits & have them cooling in front of the fan now. Crushed the anise seed a bit in this square plastic bowl to open'em up a bit with the ball end of a Craftsman screwdriver. Ditto with the cardamom pods to open them up & make'em more fragrant. kept the anise seeds separate from the rest, as they needed to boil the whole 30 minutes to extract the oils in the half gallon of spring water I saved from brew day. The rest went in the kettle @ 15 minutes remaining. Wow, does that smell like herbal incense or something? Sweet gale went MIA, for some reason though? Color looks like regular tea, tastes wonderful. Kinda bright, slightly spicy fine herbs. So it'll lend ever so slightly to the color. I'm going to let it cool down to room temp, then take a gravity reading to add to the 1.074OG I got on the 5.5G of wort. Oh man, the man cave is starting to smell good! The anise is just a bit dominant, but the cardamom seems to tone it a bit. Very interesting. I just wish I'd have had the sweet gale, darn it. Thought I did? It must've been a seasonal thing when I ordered the rest of it? Gotta get the spruce extract for bottling day too. I'll be shooting a video that'll, this time, be way more informative. Also with no wasting of time, sorry about that with the other brew day videos. This was the first brew day I shot, & my mind just wasn't in the right place, apparently?
* Added gruit herb/spice tea to 23L mark. Then dropped in boiled to sanitize bag, sprayed lid seal with Starsan, & closed it up to finish fermenting. Dammit, forgot to take hydrometer sample! I did suppose it was worth a couple gravity points anyway?

 

[unionrdr]

The 2oz bottle of spruce essence I ordered got shipped out today from Amazon. Should be here next Wednesday? Going to add the spruce to the priming solution, rather than 2ozs of tips to the boil. Just don't know how much concentrate to use in 23L (6 USG)?

 

[unionrdr]

Spruce essence came in a little while ago. It says 1 tsp per gallon, but I'm assuming that means for soda or something? The Mumme recipe called for 2ozs of spruce tips in the boil. How much essence would be equal to that?

 

[unionrdr]

Went to Northern Brewer & opened a chat with Gabe M. Explaining that the original 1695 recipe called for 2ozs of spruce tips. And how much that might equal in spruce essence? He said it wouldn't be much ( as I figured), maybe 1/4oz? A quarter of a shot glass in 6 gallons? That sounds reasonable for a concentrate, but what say you?

 

[unionrdr]

Thanks to my mind & it's stream of consciousness, I wrote a 2nd recipe already. This one we've discussed so far is the all-gruit English version. So the new label will reflect this...

Now, since the Belgians brewed gruit ales as well, & the Germans were the first to use hops, & this beer being the first, I wrote a new recipe to that end, using this label;

 

[BreezyBrew]

Haha

 

[unionrdr]

Well, just took the first FG sample @ 8:22, got a measured 1.024. OG was 1.077. Aroma is that of funeral or minced meat pie? Flavor as well. Amber/copper in color. Wild how it's like drinking one of the mentioned pies? That's 7.6% so far by Cooper's formula of (OG-FG)/7.46 +.5= ABV%. I hope by the time it clears up ( was hazy with particles in it yet), that it tastes more like an ale. Kind of a natural sweetness that lingers on the lips, like the pies would. I'll also be adding 1/4oz spruce essence to the priming solution, replacing the 2ozs of tips that were to be boiled with the gruits.

 

[Rhetorik]

Aroma is that of funeral or minced meat pie? Flavor as well.

Not going to beat around the bush - that sounds awful.

 

[unionrdr]

I take it you've never had mincepie or funeral (raisin) pie before? It's a classic that goes way back! Try to imagine dark, slightly sweet, raisin with spices. Just took 2nd FG @ 2:58PM, got FG 1.022-.002 points lower. That gives 7.87% ABV by Cooper's formula. Aroma & flavor a bit boozy/brandied now with the pie flavors. Yum...

 

[unionrdr]

The primary temps were high till I got the new window A/C unit a couple days ago. Now I can set room temp that's comfortable for me that gets primary temps down to a more reasonable level. @ 8:43AM, the primary temp was down to about 21C, or 69.8F. Maybe now it'll settle out clear finally? Too late for temp control at the right stage this time, but other beers will be more properly controlled from here on.
I was forced to make a sort of drape for the archway leading into the man cave with some 6mil plastic I bought at Home Depot. Now I'll just have to get a heater for cold weather that can be set as accurately ass the A/C unit to keep temps in the room more constant.

 

[unionrdr]

Took another FG sample a little while ago, & got FG 1.022 again. Sample is less turbid with the A/c on @ 65-69F, but still very misty? Aroma & flavor of mince pie yet, but no longer boozy. It has a bright, sweet sort of finish to it that's quite pleasant for an old, strong fest ale. Might bottle it Saturday if FG is the same.

 

[hagar]

I hear ya on the funeral pie thing. I haven't made one in years. I have actually been giving thought to trying to do big beer like a barleywine based on funeral pie.

Looking forward to the outcome on your mumme.

 

[unionrdr]

This strong ale will likely fill the bill nicely. Gotta check it again today. Also need to cut a piece of tubing for the bottling wand, should it be ready to bottle today. Should be by now?...

 

[unionrdr]

FG was stable @ 1.022 when I bottled it up today. I made the priming solution to 2.3 Vco2 with 1/4 oz spruce essence to sub for the 2ozs spruce tips in the boil. Got 59-12oz bottles, rather than 62-65 with 6 gallons, due to trub losses from 2L of trub & yeast. The trub/yeast came up to just under the spigot on the Cooper's Micro Brew FV, so I got all the liquid beer I could...