I just getting to All Grain, so I am still doing a lot of reading on the subject. The other day I ran across an article that stated "when moving the wort from the mash tun to the boil kettle it should be moved at the same rate as draining. So the transfer of wort should take up to an hour." Is theis true? If so how so you control the rate if transfer?
Moving wort
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USAFSooner
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Yes you want a nice slow drain to maximize efficiency. 45min - 1hr sounds about right. For fly sparging with a HLT, you control the output via the output valve at the bottom of the mash tun. Set the valve on the HLT to roughly the same setting so you maintain a constant level of liquid in the tun until the HLT runs out.
zachattack
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How do you plan on sparging? Batch or fly? The sparge rate is much more important for fly sparging.
I batch sparge and always use a nice slow drain. A slow drain does a couple of things.
1. It ups your efficiency. I went from a 60% efficiency to a 75% efficiency by slowing the drain process.
2. A slow drain will help set the grain bed and reduce stuck sparges.
My drain times usually last anywhere from 30-45 minutes.
1. It ups your efficiency. I went from a 60% efficiency to a 75% efficiency by slowing the drain process.
2. A slow drain will help set the grain bed and reduce stuck sparges.
My drain times usually last anywhere from 30-45 minutes.
broadbill
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Honestly, I'm not sure how slowing down your draining for batch sparging would make any difference in your efficiency. The sugars that get into solution during a batch sparge should be the same should you drain fast or drain slow. The "rinsing" of grains occurs when the sparge water is dumped and mixed into the grain bed; drain rate should not affect this. The drain rate is important with fly sparging, because rinsing is occurring as the sparge water moves from the top of the grain bed to the bottom.
Stuck sparges I can see, but I've never had a problem draining as fast as I can. If were taking 30-45 to drain, I probably be fly sparging instead for the extra efficiency. For me, batch sparging is worth it because of the time savings.
dbrewski
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Batch sparging doesn't require a slow drain, even thought that may work for you. I batch sparge in a round cooler with a manifold made of copper pipes that doesn't really clog unless I have a ton of wheat in a recipe. So I don't drain slow. I vorlauf about three quarts, put it back into the mash, then let it rip. I then sparge and let it sit for a few minutes, vorlauf again and drain. I routinely get 75%-80% efficiency. Everyone's system is a little different, so do what works for your system. But for me, time is one thing to consider. It already takes a long time to do a batch, I like to figure out how to make it shorter by cutting out stuff I don't need to do. I get through the first runnings and sparge inside of 20 minutes, then onto the boil.
Gameface
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My efficiency doesn't seem to fluctuate based on sparge speed. I'm not going super fast, but I've gotten 13 gal of wort into the kettle in less than 45 min and had pretty much the exact same efficiency I had when it took over 1.5hrs.
I'm not a huge believer in slower fly sparge is better. There's probably a point at which efficiency goes down, but I'm thinking that'd be pretty darn fast, like full open and getting 13gal in 20 min.
More experienced brewers please correct me if I'm wrong based on your real world experiences.
I'm not a huge believer in slower fly sparge is better. There's probably a point at which efficiency goes down, but I'm thinking that'd be pretty darn fast, like full open and getting 13gal in 20 min.
More experienced brewers please correct me if I'm wrong based on your real world experiences.
I batch sparge. Mash for 60 to 90 mins, then open the drain all the way and let it flow. Once all the wort is drained, rinse the grain to get up to the volume you need pre-boil. I've been doing this method for 8 years and I've never had any efficiency issues. I'm right around 75% (which is right on target from what I've read).
dbrewski
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Brewing software or a brewing spreadsheet. This is where reading How To Brew will come in handy, first edition is free online, or buy a current one at Amazon. Start at this chapter to learn more about extract efficiency.
Just telling you guys what happened when I slowed down my drain. Take it or leave it. I guess people like john palmer and jamil zanisheff are wrong too. Listen to their podcast and they say slowing the drain increases extraction efficiency.
Not for batch sparging, though. For fly sparging, which relies on the principle of diffusion, a slow drain is important. For Batch sparging, a slow drain doesn't make sense at all since it doesn't work by principles of diffusion. It's the stirring that "knocks" the sugars out of the grain and into the water.
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IF they are talking about batch sparging, yeah, they're wrong or you're quoting old information. The point of batch sparging is to get all the sugars into suspension by vigorous stirring and get them out as quickly as possible. Time will only allow the mash to cool and the sugars to re-attach to the husks giving you poorer efficiency.
edit to say:
It's a tie.
Morning Yooper! :cross:
Morning yourself! Today is "Quinnday" so I'll be off and out and about soon but I'm having coffee and waking up while he is having his apple and Barney time.
ANYWAY, a great resource for batch sparging is http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/ Denny is a great resource on batch sparging, and he can give you more of the actual science and experiences behind it.
Thanks to yooper and AnOldUR. You guys were correct. I found the podcast and listened to it again. They were talking about fly sparging. Batch sparging they said run it slow during your vorlouf to set the bed and then you can run it as fast as you feel comfortable. I learned something today.... it will make my next brew day quicker!
Oh, yes,it's much quicker and that's the advantage of it.
I know there are some who batch sparge who stir in the sparge water and then wait 10 minutes. Now, that won't hurt, but it isn't necessary. I'll be teaching an extract brewer tomorrow on AG, and we'll batch sparge. The key in batch sparging is stirring like you mean it! Stir it like it owes you money when you add the sparge water, and then crack the valve open, vorlauf, and drain. It takes less than 10 minutes total. If you start the first runnings on to boil as you drain them, then sparge, you can have your wort up to near boiling as you're sparging. It's fast, convenient, easy, and without much decrease in efficiency vs fly sparging.
Even now, sometimes I batch sparge if I don't feel like messing around for an extra 45 minutes with my all-electric HERMS. I really don't have a preference for fly sparging, although my system is set up perfectly to do it.
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