Mini Mash System for Extract Brewers

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Axegod said:
I will be making the move from Extract to All grain in the next few weeks. I have been absorbing as much info as possible from here and other sites. I will make
a lauter-tun as per previous posts and this site :

http://cruisenews.net/brewing/infusion/page1.php

I do have have a few questions about this..and will ask once i get the 5 gallon
cooler. Hopefully in a few weeks I will be able to to give a total breakdown of parts and hopefully success. I figure the tun will cost about $75.00 CDN for the whole tun system. I may start a new thread once I get going...as this will be an AG and may not fit the mini-mash/extract thread topic.

Cheers at all for the valuable info thus far !
:mug:
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Axegod
You should also check this site for easy batch sparging. I would recommend that if you batch sparge get a rectangular cooler. >> http://www.hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/
 
Actually I was thinking about picking up one of those drop down pieces of copper tubing.

I spent 6 dollars i think on the SS braid, the copper tubing could be done yourself, and look around for a nylon on/off. Then just put it inline with your tubing. You could save yourself a couple a bucks that way.
 
gaelone said:
I've been watching this thread with much interest because I would like to move to PM brewing. Does anyone have any thoughts on these for converting a round Rubbermaid cooler?

http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/4,8843.htm

or

http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/4,9476.htm
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Those look like they would work good but I bet you can purchase all of those components from Lowes/ Home Depot for much less. The SS braided water line I bought for my 3 gallon mash tun was less than $5 and I have enough left over to make another one.
 
I would love to see some good Partial Mash recipes if anyone wants to share.
Also,I am willing to help convert recipes, both AG and extract, that anyone has to PM. :mug:
 
This thread is so long that I skimmed through quickly and may have missed some points that are already given but here is my opinion having done it all - extract, mini mash, partial grain (more grain than extract) and all grain.

A. Efficiency is not a consideration on partial mash. Who cares, you are going for flavor - not fermentables.

B. This means anything other than steeping grains on a partial mash is a waste of time.

C. It is not much more expensive to go all the way to all grain than to fool around with the intermediate steps.

D. If you really want to improve your brew, the next step up from partial mashes is: Full boils with late extract addition. First wort hopping (flavor hops added to the steep). And all the other factors being improved - temp control, yeast starters when using liquid yeasts, ensuring you are buying the freshest ingredients, using a program like beersmith to tweak your OGs, IBUs and so on. :rockin:

In the past, the selection of extracts was very limited and the freshness in shops handling low volumes may still be in question. Those problems no longer exist for the discriminating extract brewer. Many of the regional and national awards are won by extract brews.

That said, I am an All Grain brewer. :D I love the process and am a constant tweaker and looking for that next challenge. Otherwise I wouldn't waste my time going beyond doing the extra steps described in D. above.

BTW, the only beer I ever won an award on was a partial mash porter. It is an absolutely delicious beer that I used the techniques described in D. above. I have been stretching it out and when I run out, I will make it as exactly as before on a partial mash. Not gonna fool with success!
 
Prowler 13 said:
This thread is so long that I skimmed through quickly and may have missed some points that are already given but here is my opinion having done it all - extract, mini mash, partial grain (more grain than extract) and all grain.
Click to expand...
Actually you are missing some very important points but that is OK because you are helping me explain my idea better.:mug:
Prowler 13 said:
A. Efficiency is not a consideration on partial mash. Who cares, you are going for flavor - not fermentables.
Click to expand...
Efficiency is very much a consideration with Partial Mash brewing. You are correct that flavor extraction from specialty grains is important but the brewer is also mashing base malt to extract fermentables. This will allow the PM brewer to use less malt extract saving money. It makes each brew a bit more affordable. Also, If you want to use some Munich or Vienna malt in your brew it HAS to be mashed. Do you think the addition of these malts could improve your beers?
Prowler 13 said:
B. This means anything other than steeping grains on a partial mash is a waste of time.
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If all you are doing is steeping grains you are not doing a partial mash. The grist must set at Saccharification temperatures until conversion is complete. This will not happen when you just steep the grains before the water comes to a boil.
Prowler 13 said:
C. It is not much more expensive to go all the way to all grain than to fool around with the intermediate steps.
Click to expand...
This is not true at all. For what I have proposed it will cost less than 30 dollars for the Mash/Lauter tun. The brewer can probably use the brew pot that he or she used for extract brewing. This system produces about 3 1/2 gallons of wort that the extract will be added to. No other equipment is needed.
For AG brewing, in addition to the Mash/Lauter tun, you will need a much larger brew pot, a hot water tank,a propane burner, propane, and a wort chiller. All of this adds up to quite a bit of expense.
Prowler 13 said:
D. If you really want to improve your brew, the next step up from partial mashes is: Full boils with late extract addition. First wort hopping (flavor hops added to the steep). And all the other factors being improved - temp control, yeast starters when using liquid yeasts, ensuring you are buying the freshest ingredients, using a program like beersmith to tweak your OGs, IBUs and so on. :rockin:
Click to expand...
These are all excellent points and some of them can be implemented with PM brewing. However, part of what I wanted to do is keep the cost down. Another consideration was to keep the equipment to a minimum for folks who don't have a lot of room.
Prowler 13 said:
In the past, the selection of extracts was very limited and the freshness in shops handling low volumes may still be in question. Those problems no longer exist for the discriminating extract brewer. Many of the regional and national awards are won by extract brews.
Click to expand...
Again good points and please understand I'm in no way criticizing extract brewers. If extract with steeping makes you happy then that is what you should do. Isn't that what home brewing is all about?
Thank you again for bringing up these points. I hope I've clarified what my intension was with this thread.
EDIT: Grammar
 
*shameless pics of my 99% completed mash tun. Hopefully the hardware store will have high temp tubing so I can connect the false bottom to the ball valve and brew this afternoon.

3394-MashTun002.jpg


3394-MashTun005.jpg
 
I just mashed in using a 2 gallon cooler and 5 lbs of grain. It should be a nice light colored ale if all goes according to plan.

Thank you for this great idea and the good R&D that went into this. I saved at least $10 on extract and I am sure it will taste beter because of the fresh grains I was able to use.
 
paul_beer said:
I just mashed in using a 2 gallon cooler and 5 lbs of grain. It should be a nice light colored ale if all goes according to plan.

Thank you for this great idea and the good R&D that went into this. I saved at least $10 on extract and I am sure it will taste beter because of the fresh grains I was able to use.
Click to expand...
Give us the details including the recipe.:mug:
I would like to know how it went for you and what you thought of the process.
 
The recipe was as follows:

MASH:
2 kg pale two row
.25 kg Vienna Malt

Mashed for one hour at 150^F with ~6 quarts. Batched sparged with 10 quarts split over three batches (not room for any more water)

Extract:
2 kg Light DME (late addition)

Boil = 16 quarts

1.5 oz 3.5%aa Saaz @ 60min
1.5 oz 3.5%aa Saaz @ 20 min
1 oz 3.5%aa Saaz @ flame out.

Batch Size 6 Gallons
Target OG: 1.054
Actual OG: 1.040

Pitched WYEAST 1056 straight from smack-pack

I was hoping for a somewhat light ale version of a pilsner but it turned out a dark amber colour. Not bad for my third batch but I could definetly improve on my mash efficiency. I don't think the grains were crushed very well (next time I will order them online and pre-crushed). All the LHBS I went to for ingredients were geared to extract kits and it was even hard to find two row.

I really enjoyed doing the partial mash. It was a good way to get my feet wet with AG while still being able do partial boils in my kitchen.

Sorry for the mixed units, things up north are sold by the kg but most of the brewing resources are on the imperial system.
 
paul_beer said:
The recipe was as follows:

MASH:
2 kg pale two row
.25 kg Vienna Malt

Mashed for one hour at 150^F with ~6 quarts. Batched sparged with 10 quarts split over three batches (not room for any more water)

Extract:
2 kg Light DME (late addition)

Boil = 16 quarts

I was hoping for a somewhat light ale version of a pilsner but it turned out a dark amber colour. Not bad for my third batch but I could definetly improve on my mash efficiency. I don't think the grains were crushed very well (next time I will order them online and pre-crushed). All the LHBS I went to for ingredients were geared to extract kits and it was even hard to find two row.
Click to expand...
It looks like that converts to a little less than 4 1/2 pounds of 2 row, a little over 1/2 pound of Vienna, and a little less than 4 1/2 pounds DME. Does that sound about correct?
It sounds like you used the correct amount of water in the mash and sparge.
How did you crush your grain and what did they look like after you crushed them? That could be one problem for sure. Purchasing crushed grain from a good store on line may help tremendously. The grain might be fresher and will be properly crushed.
Did the mash hold at 150 degrees for the entire hour?
Lets figure this out so we can improve your efficiency on the next batch. :mug:
 
Yes, your conversion are correct. I crushed the grain myself with a rolling pin :( and then a quick buzz in the food processor. The stores did not have any mills I could borrow. I am pretty sure a big part of my inefficiency came from that. Not only that but it took a long time! The grain looked OK but it didn't seem like a 'proffesional' way to do it.

I did loose some heat through the lid but it stayed above 150. I think next time I will add some styro-foam to the lid to help with that. The sides of the cooler did not even get warm on the outside.
 
paul_beer said:
Yes, your conversion are correct. I crushed the grain myself with a rolling pin :( and then a quick buzz in the food processor. The stores did not have any mills I could borrow. I am pretty sure a big part of my inefficiency came from that. Not only that but it took a long time! The grain looked OK but it didn't seem like a 'proffesional' way to do it.

I did loose some heat through the lid but it stayed above 150. I think next time I will add some styro-foam to the lid to help with that. The sides of the cooler did not even get warm on the outside.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't worry about more insulation. The grains may have been old (Sounds like the LHBS doesn't deal in them much) and the way you crushed them may have had an effect. Although I would think you could have gotten a stuck sparge from too fine a crush. Did the food processor chop the grains into fine particles?
 
Chimone said:
*shameless pics of my 99% completed mash tun. Hopefully the hardware store will have high temp tubing so I can connect the false bottom to the ball valve and brew this afternoon.
Click to expand...

Home depot did not have it. I got mine from Austin....was not cheap by the way, but did not deform to the slightest degree. I used hosed clamps just because I was neurotic from the hose comming off in my first AG.

2560-000_0042.jpg
 
RichBrewer said:
Did the food processor chop the grains into fine particles?
Click to expand...

No, I made sure that didn't happen. There was what I thought to be a decent amount of dust but I don't know what a normal amount is either. I also think it was dust from the husks, it looked to dark to be grain. I tried to make sure that the grains were not cut up too much. Most were cut in half, some were crushed, but some just had part of the husk taken off. Would that have lowered my efficiency?

I think you are right about the fresher grains. I grew up on a farm and it didn't have that good barley smell. I think that next time I will order grains online, especially when one of the LHBS clerks admitted to ordering their grains from paddockwood.com anyways. No sense in paying mark-up twice.

I plan to pitch a porter on top of the yeast cake when this one is done brewing so I will get some more practice soon. I will try fresher, properly milled grains and see how that fairs. I am still pretty happy with the set up. I think it worked well and was not any more difficult that steeping. From start to pitching the yeast was about 4 hours. A lot of that time was spent waiting for water to heat up on the kitchen stove. I can’t wait until I have a yard so I can use propane!
 
paul_beer said:
Would that have lowered my efficiency?

I think you are right about the fresher grains. I grew up on a farm and it didn't have that good barley smell. I think that next time I will order grains online, especially when one of the LHBS clerks admitted to ordering their grains from paddockwood.com anyways. No sense in paying mark-up twice.

I plan to pitch a porter on top of the yeast cake when this one is done brewing so I will get some more practice soon. I will try fresher, properly milled grains and see how that fairs. I am still pretty happy with the set up. I think it worked well and was not any more difficult that steeping. From start to pitching the yeast was about 4 hours. A lot of that time was spent waiting for water to heat up on the kitchen stove. I can’t wait until I have a yard so I can use propane!
Click to expand...
It's hard to say without seeing the grains but I'll bet it had an effect.

I'm glad to hear you say that it was no more difficult than steeping. I think anyone could use this method and it doesn't take that much longer.
Thank you for taking the plunge and telling us about your experience.
 
Great info/discussion in this thread. Learning a ton of info. Thanks to all.

I bought and converted a 5Gal Rubbermaid Victory cooler I got from target. I'll use that for PM brews. I am considering getting a 10Gal cooler to use as the sparge tank (for now) and will reverse the two when I go all grain sometime in the future. Would this work? Is it advisable? My thinking is that a 10 Gal PM mash tun would leave to shallow a grain bed. And I don't want to buy a cooler that'll be too small for going AG.

Also, the SS braid may be effective for PM...will it be for AG?

I bought a SS sparge arm, but it's 1/2" too wide to fit in the 5 Gal cooler, so I'll try and rig it somehow, or save it for when I go AG and use a strainer or something to "rain" the sparge water on the grains.

Thanks.
 
gaelone said:
I bought and converted a 5Gal Rubbermaid Victory cooler I got from target. I'll use that for PM brews. I am considering getting a 10Gal cooler to use as the sparge tank (for now) and will reverse the two when I go all grain sometime in the future. Would this work? Is it advisable? My thinking is that a 10 Gal PM mash tun would leave to shallow a grain bed. And I don't want to buy a cooler that'll be too small for going AG.
Click to expand...
That sounds like a great idea to me and I agree that a 10 gallon cooler would be too big for PM. The grain bed would be shallow and a smaller mash may not hold temp as well in the larger cooler.

gaelone said:
Also, the SS braid may be effective for PM...will it be for AG?
Click to expand...
Maybe someone who has tried this can chime in but, from my experience with the mini mash brew, I would think the SS braid would work very well with AG.
 
Originally, I was planning on selling the mini Mash/Lauter tun I made after this experiment was done but now I'm thinking about keeping it. That Mini mash brew session was so easy that I may do some more of them. Might be nice to do when the weather is too bad for out door brewing.
 
Prowler 13 said:
D. If you really want to improve your brew, the next step up from partial mashes is: Full boils with late extract addition. First wort hopping (flavor hops added to the steep).
Click to expand...

Please Explain:

Full boil with late extract addition: What are the advantages? How late is the extract added to the boil?

First wort hopping (flavor added to the steep.) Does this work with all beer styles or only certain beer styles?


Prowler 13 said:
And all the other factors being improved - temp control, yeast starters when using liquid yeasts, ensuring you are buying the freshest ingredients, using a program like beersmith to tweak your OGs, IBUs and so on.
Click to expand...

If I am using a yeast smack pack should I still add the yeast to a starter or directly to the wort?
 
Jwedel said:
Please Explain:

Full boil with late extract addition: What are the advantages? How late is the extract added to the boil?

First wort hopping (flavor added to the steep.) Does this work with all beer styles or only certain beer styles?

If I am using a yeast smack pack should I still add the yeast to a starter or directly to the wort?
Click to expand...


Advantgages to late additions are lighter color, and less caramelization of the extract. add at 15 minutes left. But theres no set time you have to add it at.

SO far on my reading up on first wort hopping, most people do it on Pilsners and lagers, of course once again, there are no set rules on this. Try some experimenting of your own.

If you are using a smack pack, well technically it is a starter, but once again, its up to you if you want to make an even bigger starter. And now Wyeast smack packs come in the XL size. 400 ml I believe
 
I'm going to brew this weekend and the yeast I'm using was harvested from a primary fermenter a few months ago. I want to make a starter for it to be sure it is still viable. My LHBS is closed today and I don't have any DME so I did a small 2 pound batch in my mini masher.
2 pounds of grain, 1/2 gallon mash water, and 1 gallon sparge water. I boiled the wort for 30 minutes. I ended up with a bit less than 1 gallon between 2 growlers. The OG is 1.050 which is pretty darn good. I was afraid that the very shallow grain bed would create problems but it worked great. The wort came out very clear with lots of trub.
I like this thing and I'm glad I made it.
Here's a pic of the wort in the hydrometer flask.
2967-StarterWort.jpg
 
This is a great thread and there's a ton of information on here, but I still have one fundamental question.

How big of a cooler SHOULD I get?

I'm going to try and piece together a lauter tun this weekend, I've seen a few coolers start to go on sale now that the 4th of July is behind us. I don't forsee myself going all-grain at anytime in the foreseeable future, at least not for a couple years, so convertibility into something useful to the AG process isn't a concern. Hell, I'll just convert it back into a cooler to hold more beer! I'd like to start doing partial mashes, start getting a good chunk of my fermentables from grain. I'd like to be able to do a barleywine using a good amount of grain, but I don't really know what that means in terms of weight or volume.

Basically, my plan WAS to get a 5-gallon rectangular cooler, but it seems that a few posts indicated that heat loss might be too much. One of the original posts pointed towards a 2-gallon cooler that happens to be the exact model we already have in storage and that I had earlier dismissed as too small. I was actually thinking about using that to hold the sparge water, with a few minor mods, if I do any fly sparging.

Should I go with a 3-gallon? 4 gallon? Is five gallon really too big, or is heat loss not that big a deal as long as I preheat it?

Insight and suggestions are much appreciated...
 
WalMart has the 5 gallon orange Igloos for right around 20 bucks right now. My only problem is this though. I did so well with a partial mash, that I went straight into all grain on the next batch and haven't looked back since. Now Im wishing I had picked up a 10 gallon cooler instead.

Oh well, but the 5 gallon did great for a partial though. It held temp great, and for my partail I used the SS braid. That worked liek a champ too.
 
I am planning on using the SS braid, as well. This setup looks like it will be pretty easy to get going. As long as the 5 gallon holds temp well, I'll go with that; again, my only concern is extra heat loss if I go too big.
 
Just be sure to add very hot water and let sit for 15 minutes or so, then dump out and add your stirke water. That way the cooler is up to temp and you wont loose much heat at all. And with the lid on, I maintain my temp great, I maybe loose 1 degree in a 1 hour mash.
 
the_bird said:
Basically, my plan WAS to get a 5-gallon rectangular cooler, but it seems that a few posts indicated that heat loss might be too much. One of the original posts pointed towards a 2-gallon cooler that happens to be the exact model we already have in storage and that I had earlier dismissed as too small. I was actually thinking about using that to hold the sparge water, with a few minor mods, if I do any fly sparging.

Should I go with a 3-gallon? 4 gallon? Is five gallon really too big, or is heat loss not that big a deal as long as I preheat it?

Insight and suggestions are much appreciated...
Click to expand...
You could probably go with your 2 gallon cooler. I did 5 pounds of grain in the 3 gallon and had plenty of room. Give it a shot. If it doesn't work you can convert your cooler back to a cooler. :mug:
 
I'll take a trip to Target and see what I find. The crappy little Wal-Mart I was in tonight had nothing I wanted, if I have no luck at Target (which I doubt) I may go that route. Would much prefer to have a dedicated cooler, though.
 
Chimone said:
*shameless pics of my 99% completed mash tun. Hopefully the hardware store will have high temp tubing so I can connect the false bottom to the ball valve and brew this afternoon.

3394-MashTun002.jpg


3394-MashTun005.jpg
Click to expand...

I'm not in the "handy catagory," especially when it comes to plumbing. Something like this looks fun to make though! Any specific parts/sizes I should look for? Also, what's the cleanup on that going to be like, will you need to take it apart each time, or run a rinse through?

Jason
 
iloman said:
I'm not in the "handy catagory," especially when it comes to plumbing. Something like this looks fun to make though! Any specific parts/sizes I should look for? Also, what's the cleanup on that going to be like, will you need to take it apart each time, or run a rinse through?

Jason
Click to expand...


Thats a 1/2 inch ball valve with barbed fittings from ACE hardware. I ordered the weldless bulkhead fitting from morebeer.com. I'm pretty sure I could have put that together at the hardware store too.

Installation is a breeze, just make sure you use teflon tape so there aren't any leaks.

Cleanup takes about 5 minutes. I don;t take mine apart, well I havent yet. I just spray the crap out of the inside to get any pieces of grain out, then fill it up and let it drain 2-3 times. Sweet wort is water soluble so as long as your not letting it sit for days in there you shouldn;t have a problem.
 
iloman said:
Based on what I've read at http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixD-3.html a 5 Gallon cooler would be able to handle an AG brew, and wouldn't be bad for a PG either from what I've read in this thread. Am I understanding that correctly? I JUST started to read up on partial and all grain brews today.

Jason
Click to expand...
Actually, the point I've been trying to make is I think the 5 gallon cooler is too big for PM brewing. It makes for a shallow grain bed and with the smaller volume of water and malt, the heat loss would be too great.
When I did the batch with the 3 gallon cooler, it held temp very well. It didn't drop 1 degree in an hour.
Also, I will state again, the smaller coolers take up less room for the folks living in apartments or other small dwellings.
If you are doing extract brewing with steeped grains, give this some thought. It really isn't that much harder and it will make your beer better. You don't need a lot more equipment to do it and you will save money in the long run.
 
Ok, Rich, sorry if I'm being dense, but does the grain depth matter if you're doing batch sparging as opposed to fly sparging? I've tried reading all that I can on this topic, but there are still some basics that I'm having trouble wrapping my head around.
 
the_bird said:
Ok, Rich, sorry if I'm being dense, but does the grain depth matter if you're doing batch sparging as opposed to fly sparging? I've tried reading all that I can on this topic, but there are still some basics that I'm having trouble wrapping my head around.
Click to expand...
I don't think you are being dense at all. Lots of great questions, suggestions, and opinions being expressed. We are all learning from this.
I can't base this on fact but to me the grain bed aids in clarifying the wort. The husks in the mash act as a filter taking out small grain and husk particles. I don't think you get much filtering in a shallow grain bed. Also the wort has to be recirculated to clear it before draining into the brew pot. How do you pour the wort back over the shallow grain bed without disturbing it?

If there are folks out there who have tried PMs in a large cooler please chime in.
 

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