Might have ruined my first Lager. Help!

[carter840]

Hi All,


I brewed my first lager last night, but had a yeast issue. I had all my ingredients (including crushed grain) sitting for a couple months. I used a Wyeast 2007 Pilsen Lager. It had a MFG date of Feb 2012. I know that this is old and that it is not as viable as fresh stuff, but it is all I had.

I pitched it this morning after activating it last night. There was no activity in the smack pack (that I could see), and I was hoping that pitching it this morning in stead of last night would have given the yeast some time to grown inside the smack pack. I am wondering if I should go buy another package of yeast and add it late. I will not be ale to do this until tomorrow, so it will be added 48 hours after the boil. I really hope I didn't ruin my first lager.

Any input is appreciated!

Other Info:
Lager currently at 51F
OG 1.044

 

[mtyquinn]

Usually you want to pitch more yeast for that for a lager, or at least do big starter. I think it might help if you pitch more yeast. You should be fine though.

 

[kh54s10]

If it is a true lager it requires a lot more yeast than an ale.

If it was mine I would go buy more packs of yeast to pitch. Maybe even 3-4 packs depending on the recipe.

It will ferment as is but by underpitching by so much, I would expect off flavors. Lagers, being lighter beers don't mask off flavors as well as a malty ale would.

Check mrmalty.com and yeastcalc.com for proper yeast pitching rates.

 

[carter840]

Thanks for the feedback,

So since this is already started, should I go and get more yeast tomorrow and add it in tomorrow night. I cannot go to the LHBS today because it closes early. Should i just buy two packages of 2007 Pilsen Lager Yeast, smack them in the store and then add them a few hours later?

 

[progmac]

it is going to take a long time to get going. the lag with lagers is long even with a fresh pack. I would add one more smack pack, the freshest one you can find.

 

[kh54s10]

Mrmalty suggests using 31 packs of yeast at that date when not making a starter.

If you got fresh (Aug 15th is what I input) yeast it still asks for 4.2 packs.

FYI. The inner pouch in a Wyeast pack is just nutrient. When you smack it it causes the yeast to produce a little co2 inflating the pack. This is only a proof to tell you the yeast are viable. It is also a bit inaccurate. You may not get much inflation and still have good yeast.

With liquid yeast it is always better to make a starter and pitch the proper amount of yeast.

 

[carter840]

Well I guess this is just a good indicator that it is time to start making starters. I plan to buy two more packs of this same yeast and pitch them tomorrow night. I will make starters in the future, but I need to get a stir plate and flask setup.

 

[slarkin712]

FYI, you will not get yeast growth inside the smack pack(at least not significant). The point of the smack pack is to verify that the yeast is healthy and active. When you smack the pack and then it inflates, you know you have viable yeast. If it doesn't inflate it doesn't mean that your yeast are dead either. You just need to make an appropriate sized yeast starter to grow more yeast and verify they are viable. If this is a 5-5.5 gallon batch you'll need 300-350 billion yeast cells. Let's say that your smack pack had 20 billion cells(this is not a scientific estimate, just an estimate). To get the number of required cells you'll need 3 more fresh smack packs. I'm not sure what the best course of action is for you considering that you already have yeast pitched and growing in your fermentor. I'd get more fresh yeast into the fermentor as soon as possible. It might be a little late, as excessive growth from the initial yeast pitch may cause some off flavors. But, adding more fresh yeast will at least help get to a satisfactory final gravity. If you add more fresh yeast you do not need to activate the packs. Just open them and dump in.

 

[carter840]

FYI, you will not get yeast growth inside the smack pack(at least not significant). The point of the smack pack is to verify that the yeast is healthy and active. When you smack the pack and then it inflates, you know you have viable yeast. If it doesn't inflate it doesn't mean that your yeast are dead either. You just need to make an appropriate sized yeast starter to grow more yeast and verify they are viable. If this is a 5-5.5 gallon batch you'll need 300-350 billion yeast cells. Let's say that your smack pack had 20 billion cells(this is not a scientific estimate, just an estimate). To get the number of required cells you'll need 3 more fresh smack packs. I'm not sure what the best course of action is for you considering that you already have yeast pitched and growing in your fermentor. I'd get more fresh yeast into the fermentor as soon as possible. It might be a little late, as excessive growth from the initial yeast pitch may cause some off flavors. But, adding more fresh yeast will at least help get to a satisfactory final gravity. If you add more fresh yeast you do not need to activate the packs. Just open them and dump in.

So I should not pop the new yeast packs? Just to be sure the interior pouch is the nutrient and can be thrown away? I want to be sure not to throw away the yeast, rather then the nutrient.

 

[jtejedor]

No yeast in the pouch, the yeast is all that other stuff floating in the smack pack. As stated you are going to need quite a few smack packs to ferment this beer optimally. Starters are very important with lagers, I would not even attempt one unless I had enough time to build up the appropriate starter.

 

[carter840]

No yeast in the pouch, the yeast is all that other stuff floating in the smack pack. As stated you are going to need quite a few smack packs to ferment this beer optimally. Starters are very important with lagers, I would not even attempt one unless I had enough time to build up the appropriate starter.

I understand your position, BUT what do I do now? I cannot get any new yeast until tomorrow. I can buy 3 or even 4 packs if I need to, but I can't go back in time and make a starter. I will be adding yeast that is already 48 hours late from when I finished the boil and pitched the original yeast.

Options to save this beer:

1. Add 3 more packs tomorrow, and not use the nutrient package inside of the wWeast packages.
2. Buy 3 packs, smack them in the store, drive home and add them 2 hours later?
3. Do nothing? (I likely will not want to do this since the original yeast was old.

Also I will be making starters in the future, trust me I have learned my lesson.

 

[kh54s10]

I would go ahead and smack the packs and get the yeast awakened. It won't hurt and may help by getting them going before pitching.

 

[beerman0001]

Get 2 packs of dry yeast and pitch those.

 

[carter840]

Get 2 packs of dry yeast and pitch those.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Seems like it might be a decent idea. Are there any good dry yeasts for a lager? Could you recommend one? This is a cheaper option too.

Thanks

 

[jtejedor]

Get 2 packs of dry yeast and pitch those.

Word. Exactly what I would do. As long as sanitation was good I wouldn't worry about letting it sit that long. Obviously you do want to get some yeast in there as quick as you can.

 

[carter840]

Word. Exactly what I would do. As long as sanitation was good I wouldn't worry about letting it sit that long. Obviously you do want to get some yeast in there as quick as you can.

Alright well tomorrow I will get a couple dry packs and add them. Thanks for the help on this.

 

[carter840]

Just thought I would give you all an update.

I went out to my LHBS and got two packets of 2007 pilsen lager yeast. The gentleman at the store convinced me that I was better off continuing with liquid yeasts. He even gave me one of the packs for free, and seemed to genuinely want my wort to be beer just as much as I do. I popped both packs in the store and pitches them 2 hours later. 2 days later (Thursday), I cam home to an intense fermentation. The beer was around 65F and I lowered my chamber to 55F for this initial fermentation. So it seems like my brew is going fine. Thanks to everyone for the helpful advice.