Mexican Chocolate Stout

[ScoobyDude]

I would love to attempt a spicy chocolate stout, similar to Clown Shoes "sombrero stout". Anyone make this before? Or make a chocolate stout and have ideas for giving it some spice? Thanks.

 

[jdauria]

As soon as I saw your subject line I thought of Clown Shoes' Mexican Sombrero! Love that beer. Don't have a recipe for you, but as for the spice, why don't you do what Clown Shoes did and add some ancho chillies to the recipe? I assume you would put them in the secondary and let the beer sit on them for a few days to a week.

 

[Brainsnap]

Another brewer tried that here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/mexican-chocolate-stout-343451/
but didn't give results.

I'm going to do something similar. I've got a chocolate stout (I've made it before with good results) that is two weeks into primary fermentation. I'm going to re-rack to secondary on top of two cinnamon sticks and about a tsp each of ancho chili powder and cayenne pepper. I don't think I'm going to put the spices in vodka, but I may do a small tea infusion to pasteurize them.

 

[Derp]

Copper Kettle Brewing in Denver make a great Mexican Chocolate stout that won a gold medal at GABF when the brewery was in its infancy. They're really nice people and might be willing to give you some pointers. It can't hurt to try.

http://www.copperkettledenver.com/contact.html

 

[ScoobyDude]

Another brewer tried that here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/mexican-chocolate-stout-343451/
but didn't give results.

I'm going to do something similar. I've got a chocolate stout (I've made it before with good results) that is two weeks into primary fermentation. I'm going to re-rack to secondary on top of two cinnamon sticks and about a tsp each of ancho chili powder and cayenne pepper. I don't think I'm going to put the spices in vodka, but I may do a small tea infusion to pasteurize them.

sounds good. please share the results!

 

[breckenridge]

Subscribed. My next batch is going to be 10 gallons of sweet stout. I'm going to do 5 gallons straight, and keg that. The other 5 I'm going to do in 1 gallon fermentations, adding cacao nibs to each, doing one with WLP550 (OT, just for giggles), and then 3 with increasing additions of cinnamon and New Mexican red chile powder. It'll be 6-8 weeks, but I'll update with concentrations and tasting results.

 

[FATC1TY]

Look for some Hunapuh recipes or westbrooks Mexican cake for amounts of spices and vanilla.

 

[ScoobyDude]

Alright, it's time to give this a go. I'm brewing extract. Here is what I'm thinking after reading a bunch of stuff online (too much stuff!!). Questionable items are in parenthesis:

Steep:
Crystal 60L - 8oz.
Chocolate Malt - 1lb.
Roasted Barley - 8oz.
Black Patent - 3oz.

Boil:
Pale LME - 9lb.
(Amber/Dark DME instead of steeping Crystal 60L/BlackPatent??- 3lb., reduce Pale LME to 7 if so)
Lactose - 1lb
(2oz. Nugget - 60min)

Yeast:
s-04

Secondary:
Cocao nibs - 4oz.
Ancho chilies - 1oz.
Cinnamon - 2 sticks
Vanilla - 2 beans
(any best ideas out there to soak in vodka or tea-infuse?...unsure on how both processes work tbh)

I've been on the fence about doing this with a more imperial- or milk- stout base. It seemed to uneducated me that Sombrero is closer towards Imperial end of the Stout spectrum with its sharper bitterness quality. But last night I did try a Young's Double Chocolate Stout and now I'm thinking a smooth creamy base sounds about right, hence the addition of lactose.

Anyone have advice/thoughts on this recipe or answers to my questions that are mostly parenthesized?

 

[924RACR]

Subscribed for the great ideas... I am toying with the idea of doing basically the above - 10gal Left-Hand Milk Stout clone, split into 2 carboys... one half gets cocoa nibs and cold-brewed coffee (which we did already once, loved it), the other half to get some mix of chipotles (we like our pepper beers to have some heat!), anchos, maybe even a habanero, plus cocoa nibs and vanilla. We'd probably avoid cinnamon, or keep it very minimal, seems so easy to overdo.

When we've done peppers in secondary before, we've just done the steep in 160F water for 15min (along with the nibs etc). Not sure 'bout the vanilla, guess we'd do the same; in the past we've soaked in bourbon, but those were bourbon vanilla porters etc - would probably be rather at odds for this beer.

Tequila, OTOH...

 

[ScoobyDude]

Woooh, that does sounds like some heat.

Have you steeped the cinnamon like that too? My question, which applies to both steeping in water or soaking in an alcohol (tequila sounds kinda fun btw), is what do you do with the liquids when you are done with the steep/soak? Do you just pull out the peppers/cinnamon/vanilla/etc. and drop them in the secondary and discard the liquid? It seems there would be a lot of flavors lost in these adjuncts by doing that, but then, maybe that's a good thing..

I just bought my ingredients yesterday. I added in 8oz. of flaked oats to bolster the body and head retention, but still (hopefully) not impart much oat flavor with that amount. I ended up getting 8.5lb of Pale LME extract as well. While it was being filled at my LHBS I realized 7 would be sufficient so I had the clerk cut it off. Even so, 7 or 9 will likely only affect alcohol levels, right? I also went with Nugget hops, and plan to do a 60-min. boil with 1.25oz of the stuff. It's 13%AA so this boil will get me a desirable 33 IBU. Previous threads on similar beers have said later hop additions don't contribute much, and I don't want any strong or "fresh" hop flavor in this anyway. I'm shooting for a full, creamy mexican chocolate stout. Too much hop spice or floral aroma might be confusing IMO. I think 33 IBU from Nugget will be a good balance to the malts and accent the spice well.

I also like the idea of splitting out my (5g) batch into two secondary batches, one plain chocolate and one mexican, but I'll have to find a couple 2.5g carboys first..

Brew day is tomorrow, I'll let you know how it goes.

According to BrewSmith, anticipated values are:
Est OG: 1.066
Est FG: 1.015
Est ABV: 6.8%
IBU: 33
SRM: 39

 

[924RACR]

I've not done a cinnamon addition, so can't speak there.

When we've soaked in water, we just pitch it, but any booze we'll throw in too, gotta save all that lovely flavor! Water, we don't need that in our beer...

Yeah, the extra LME shouldn't really matter much to the flavor of the beer IMO... not that I'm an expert by any means, but...

As for splitting batches, your solution is simple - just brew 10gal at a time.

 

[ScoobyDude]

Update: I finally got around to brewing the stout base for the mexican chocolate stout last night (i.e. sans everything to make it mexican, and the cocoa nibs). smelled pretty good, tasted alright (lots going on in the wort post-boil with the lactose, hops, and very dark grains so I'm taking that with a grain of salt). OG - 1.065.

I pitched dry s-04 at 64 degrees and it the fermenter read 58 when I woke up this morning, so I warmed it back up to the 64 with a warm bath. Trouble is, 24 hours later and fermentation has yet to take off. only in the past couple hours has a small layer of foam developed, but no visible bubbling inside or in the airlock....not sure what to make of this. Anyone have an idea?

 

[DurtyChemist]

Rdwhahb.

 

[ScoobyDude]

Rdwhahb.

Been seeing that a lot in posts, had to google it. Yes, it's all about patience in the homebrew world.

As an update, it ended up taking off by morning 2. A nice Krausen on top. That evening I noticed it was stuck at 58 on the fermometer, which to my understanding is low, so I thought to add warm water to the water bath it's been sitting in. Bad idea! The fermometer climbed to 64 pretty fast and the Krausen was growing fast as well, so I backtracked and put cold water back in the tub and threw on the blow off tube. IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT. I created an hour of work for myself and only created opportunity for messing up the beer. a steady 58 is better than fluctuating I suppose...

All said, everything is looking good. Can't wait to try it when I take a gravity reading on day 14.

SO, my thinking/understanding is that I will transfer the beer to the secondary once the beer reaches its final, stable gravity. Then let it sit on the chilies, etc., for about a week. If you have a better idea, let me know.

 

[924RACR]

Damn straight; we've made lots of great beer at around 60F. Many don't believe the ABV levels we've gotten with just a basic SA-05; I believe it's due to a cooler, slower fermentation, very low final gravities.

I'd say at least 1, preferably 2 weeks on the chiles... but YMMV!

 

[ScoobyDude]

Almost secondary time. Anyone have an idea on fresh vs. dried ancho chilies? I plan to soak the anchos, cinnamon, vanilla, and nibs in a bowl of vodka for a day, dump it all in the secondary and rack on top of that. Sound good?

 

[ScoobyDude]

And say I get a fresh ancho chile. I've read people roast them, which I could go for. BUT, after roasting, do I still boil or soak in vodka?

I also plan to get rid of the seeds. I'm looking for flavor and aroma, and not so much burning heat.

 

[924RACR]

We used dried ancho... don't think fresh would get you any better flavor, perhaps less. Roasting or smoking could get you more towards smokey flavor, but not sure that's what you're going for.

We didn't use vodka, but rather we went for the 10min steep in 160F water. Didn't lose anything by pitching that water. But sure, no reason vodka wouldn't work.

 

[BHowe]

I'm about to do the same for a big chocolaty stout that I did. It's been in primary for 30 days and on the 2nd and then it will go into a secondary for another 30 days.

planning to add an ancho, coffee beans, and cacao nibs to it about 10 days before kegging (probably all soaked in bourbon), and then some oak chips 2-3 days before kegging that have also been soaked in bourbon.

Thats the plan anyway.

 

[ScoobyDude]

Sounds tasty BHowe

As an update: By day 17 I was able to transfer the beer and adjuncts into the secondary. The beer tasted like a great stout on its own. Had a hint if raisin going on that was surprisingly good.

So I boiled the adjuncts for 10 minutes and put in empty secondary. Word of warning here.... have a funnel with a large enough opening to fit the cinnamon sticks and bigger peppers. I lost half a pepper when I couldn't use my funnel....but was adding extra so thats a wash. Now this adjunct stew also tasted fantastic. I think I've got a great beer on my hands.

I then racked on top. Much of the adjuncts floated to the top.

Took a gravity reading: 1.028. Higher than expected but then again I added a lot of specialty grains and lactose.

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[Brainsnap]

My stout was just bottled last week. It has a little bit of heat in the finish, but the cinnamon doesnt really pull through the chocolaty maltiness. I'll update again after it's carbonated because it will open up the flavor a little bit.

I wish I would have been more aggressive with spices, because I think more would be beneficial. A friend added a ghost pepper to a porter recently and said he got a decent amount of heat, but it's not overpowering. I think I may go that route if I do this beer again.

 

[924RACR]

Interesting comment re: the ghost pepper; just tried "Crime" from Stone Brewing... a mix of various Bastards, barrel aged and a whole mess of peppers including Scotch Bonnet and ghost. Impressively tasty heat; smells more like a hot sauce than a beer in the glass, but the malty sweetness of the Bastards tempers it well!

That said... it's only a bit hotter than the beer we make with Thai chiles. Probably that's the difference between secondary and in the boil; they used in the secondary of course, whereas we throw in the peppers for the last 10 minutes of the boil.

So simply getting hotter peppers isn't the only answer (though we are now admittedly tempted)... you can run 'em in the boil too, and get loads of heat out that way.

But I think we're not trying to make a killer hot stout here, so I wouldn't be recommending that method (unless you're a serious pepper-head)...

 

[ScoobyDude]

It's been a week since racking to the secondary with they adjuncts. It tastes great! Both the heat and flavor from the spices are pretty mild, but I am liking that right now. It'll still be up to another week before I bottle it, so I'm sure that flavor will pick up more, which is also good.

I am seeing how the comments on cinnamon apply. I used two sticks, and am not picking up too much of that flavor. Or maybe it's masked by the pepper.

And then there is still this raisin like flavor coming through from the malts. It was there before adding the peppers so I know it's not from that. I am also wondering if the sweetness from the lactose is also contributing to the raisin flavor.

All in all, it's shaping up to be a great beer. Not quite like the Clown Shoes' Chocolate Sombrero that I was shooting for, but it's good and unlike any beer I've had so I'm stoked. Having tasted my ChocoTaco Stout (what I'm calling it), which has the sweeter milk stout base, I am sure Chocolate Sombrero is an Imperial Stout. I recall it being like a spicier version of Old Rasputin, that was black in color and had some of that charcoal-like flavor. Mine seems like a candied up version of that, and is more of a mahogany color with more clarity than I was expecting.

 

[bondra76]

My stout was just bottled last week. It has a little bit of heat in the finish, but the cinnamon doesnt really pull through the chocolaty maltiness. I'll update again after it's carbonated because it will open up the flavor a little bit.

I wish I would have been more aggressive with spices, because I think more would be beneficial. A friend added a ghost pepper to a porter recently and said he got a decent amount of heat, but it's not overpowering. I think I may go that route if I do this beer again.

What peppers did you use and when in the process?

Here's the ingredients for a Mexican Chocolate Stout from Beersmith:


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
13 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 71.2 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.2 %
12.0 oz Roasted Barley (Thomas Fawcett) (609.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.1 %
8.0 oz Carafa Special III (Weyermann) (470.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.7 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.7 %
1 lbs Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 6 5.5 %
1 lbs Milk Sugar (Lactose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 7 5.5 %
1.00 oz Nugget [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 36.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 9 11.9 IBUs
8.00 oz Cocao Powder (Boil 10.0 mins) Flavor 10 -
1.00 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35.49 ml] Yeast 12 -
3.00 Items Vanilla Bean (Secondary 10.0 days) Spice 13 -
1.00 Items Cinnamon Stick (Secondary 10.0 days) Spice 14 -
4.00 oz Cocoa Nibs (Secondary 10.0 days) Spice 15 -
2.00 oz Ancho Chili (Secondary 10.0 days) Spice 16 -

 

[ScoobyDude]

alright, some paranoia setting in as I am hoping to bottle soon. I am concerned about the FG, which is 1.030. Before, I was feeling OK about it because of the addition of lactose and large volume of steeping grains (2+lbs.). I also dry pitched one bag of us-04 (maybe two would have been better). The FG has been at 1.030 (well, optimistically 1.028) since racking to secondary 10 days ago. The OG was 1.065

I really dont want to deal with re-pitching. My greatest concern is bottle bombs. The beer itself tastes great. Thoughts on the higher than expected FG?

Edit: checked the gravity and it was 1.027... Not sure what to do at this point. I don't want it to sit with the peppers much longer. It's already been 11 days.

 

[ScoobyDude]

My stout was just bottled last week. It has a little bit of heat in the finish, but the cinnamon doesnt really pull through the chocolaty maltiness. I'll update again after it's carbonated because it will open up the flavor a little bit.

I wish I would have been more aggressive with spices, because I think more would be beneficial. A friend added a ghost pepper to a porter recently and said he got a decent amount of heat, but it's not overpowering. I think I may go that route if I do this beer again.

What was your FG? How long did you let the peppers sit in with the beer?

 

[ScoobyDude]

Damn straight; we've made lots of great beer at around 60F. Many don't believe the ABV levels we've gotten with just a basic SA-05; I believe it's due to a cooler, slower fermentation, very low final gravities.

I'd say at least 1, preferably 2 weeks on the chiles... but YMMV!

Any thoughts on my 1.028 FG. Should I bottle?

 

[FatsSchindee]

Any thoughts on my 1.028 FG. Should I bottle?

The general consensus is that if this FG has remained stable for at least three days, it's pretty much done and you should be able to bottle without fear of bottle bombs...

 

[BHowe]

In my little experience, the milk lactose will drive the final OG higher than expected since the yeast can't really ferment it out. I did just a quick search of the milk stout recipes here, and they all seemed to be in the 1020's somewhere.

 

[ScoobyDude]

thanks. yeah, i've spent too much time stressing about it over the past 24 hours. this is supposed to be fun, right?! I'm likely going to go ahead and bottle in the next 48 hours (making it 17 days in primary, 14 days in secondary) and proceed with caution over the next month after that.

apparently the lactose add 7 points to the gravity, and plus i'm sure I had plenty of unfermentables from steeping grains (chocolate, caramel, barley, black patent, oats) so I'm going to believe that 1.027 is entirely safe to bottle at. I've also been reading that extract will run you a higher FG too.

The beer tastes great too. It's not overly sweet or anything, so I'm thinking that sweetness is all lactose.

 

[BHowe]

This is a chocolate milk stout that I just did. Mashed at 152 and pitched on top of a 1056 pale ale cake. It spent just over 4 weeks in primary and got 4oz. of cacao nibs that had been soaked in vodka for a week all pitched in about 7 days before kegging. Final gravity 1024.

8 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 60.4 %
1 lbs 4.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 2 9.4 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.5 %
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 4 7.5 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.8 %
8.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.8 %
0.75 oz Perle [9.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 7 23.9 IBUs
1 lbs Milk Sugar (Lactose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 8 7.5 %
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 ml] Yeast 9 -

 

[Brainsnap]

What was your FG? How long did you let the peppers sit in with the beer?

Sorry it took so long to reply, I don't check my email often. Here's the recipe I used:

14 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
2 lbs Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)
1 lbs Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM)
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM)
1 lbs Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM)
1.00 oz Galena [10.10 %] - First Wort 60.0 min
1.00 oz Brewer's Gold [10.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [7.30 %] - Boil 15.0 Hop
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [7.30 %] - Boil 10.0 Hop
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [7.30 %] - Boil 5.0 Hop
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [7.30 %] - Boil 3.0 Hop
3.0 pkg Nottingham (Danstar #-) [23.66 ml]

There is also 4 oz of baker's chocolate added at the end of the boil.
then I added about 1 tsp each of chili powder and cayenne pepper, along with 2 4" cinnamon sticks. Left in secondary for three weeks with the adjuncts.
I based these measurements on some research I did within this forum of things others have tried, some said 3 tsp was too much, nobody mentioned this amount was too little.

OG 1.082, FG 1.024.

Since the last post, the carbonation (which there is too much of) opened up the flavor quite a bit. but the heat is still faint at the back of the throat.
It is a smooth and quite enjoyable stout, but if I asked someone who didn't know, they probably would not be able to pick out the chili, and the cinnamon is practically nonexistent. It's a tasty beer (I did the same last year with cardamom to great success) but it could certainly be improved.

 

[924RACR]

Personally I much prefer using whole chiles to chili powder; same goes for my chili! Likewise, I'd rather have 'em in the boil for 5 minutes... and would tend towards ancho, chipotle, guajillo and the like vs. cayenne - much deeper flavor, less focus on heat, seems more in character for this brew.