Mashing

[Anbrand]

I have decided after much consternation to make the move to a direct fired RIMS.

I have a couple of questions regarding the mashing process. What is the science behind the water/grist ratio (usually near 1.33 quarts per gallon)? I ask because I will have some "mashing" dead space under my FB. I plan to adjust my water volume to compensate for the dead space. Recirculating this additional water will effectively reduce the wort concentration but not the mash consistency. Is this an issue to be concerned about? This affects the sizing of the new HLT I'm looking to purchase. I'm trying to squeeze into a 10G HLT and the additional water makes a difference. I will be doing 11G batches.

Lastly, I'm looking for helpful links that explain the mashing process including stepped mashing and the significance of the temperatures and time durations.

 

[MalFet]

Kaiser has a ton of good info about the science behind mashing, including the relative effects of water to grist ratio. At the end of the day, it's not a particularly significant factor, especially when compared to temperature. I have a system similar to what you are describing and I use a pretty routine 1.5 quarts per gallon. Once in a while, if I'm brewing a very familiar recipe and I want to try to tweak it some I might, but it's really just about a few percentage points of attenuation.

When you ask if this is an issue to be concerned about, it depends what you mean. Every system takes some time to get used to, but there is nothing wrong with what you are describing. Compared to a different system, you might find that you need to sparge differently, etc., but that's no more true for this set-up than any other.

If you are looking to understand mashing, Palmer's book How to Brew is a good place to start, as is Bobby_M's series of youtube videos (if you are more visual). If you're more science-minded, Kaiser's webpage is great. I would start with a few simple infusion mashes before trying to futz with stepped mashes. They're not particularly any harder (especially with direct fired RIMS), but stepping is just one more thing to think about.

 

[Anbrand]

Thank you for the reply. I was just curious where the 1.33 comes from. Why not 1.75? Why 60 minutes, not 50? Now I can study up.

Tell me about your system and how it differs from what I'm planning.

I'm planning to set up mine initially as follows:
2 burners
1 MLT/BK (dual use)
1 HLT
Transfer vessel to collect wort (bucket or bucket's)
1 Pump
Cam lock QD's
Fly sparge arm

I'll have to clean the MLT of spent grain prior to transferring the wort back in to boil. RIMS makes the most sense to me and before I put any automation to it I want to do it manually with the least amount of investment. I also don't want to buy anything that will not end up in my end system (if there is such a thing). I know there are inherent time inefficiencies with this initial set-up but I should be able to make as good a beer as an automated system. Just more to do, but that's how I how hope to learn what automation I need and what I can live without.

 

[MalFet]

Thank you for the reply. I was just curious where the 1.33 comes from. Why not 1.75? Why 60 minutes, not 50? Now I can study up.

Tell me about your system and how it differs from what I'm planning.

I'm planning to set up mine initially as follows:
2 burners
1 MLT/BK (dual use)
1 HLT
Transfer vessel to collect wort (bucket or bucket's)
1 Pump
Cam lock QD's
Fly sparge arm

I'll have to clean the MLT of spent grain prior to transferring the wort back in to boil. RIMS makes the most sense to me and before I put any automation to it I want to do it manually with the least amount of investment. I also don't want to buy anything that will not end up in my end system (if there is such a thing). I know there are inherent time inefficiencies with this initial set-up but I should be able to make as good a beer as an automated system. Just more to do, but that's how I how hope to learn what automation I need and what I can live without.

I think that most people wouldn't bat an eye at anything between 1qt/lb and 2qt/lb. Outside of that range even, you would probably be fine, but people have mentioned problems with enzyme access, pH, good draining, etc.

60 minutes is a good balance between efficiency and convenience. Truth be told, you would probably extract and convert the vast bulk of your sugars in 30 minutes, but 60 minutes gives you some buffer. For some very cool mashes like saisons I'll do 90 degrees just to be cautious, but even this probably isn't necessary.

My system right now is single vessel, manual direct fire, batch sparge, recirculation tun. I boil and mash in the same 10gal pot on my stovetop and don't use a HLT. I've done more complicated things at various points, including herms, PID controllers, etc., but this is simple and consistent. I can see my temperature reading from my couch and go fiddle with the stove a couple of times over the course of the hour, but nothing more than that. I don't fly sparge because I'm lazy and I don't really like getting above 75% efficiency anyway.

 

[Anbrand]

I like the simple and consistent approach. How do you get your 2nd batch sparge water up to temperature?

 

[MalFet]

I like the simple and consistent approach. How do you get your 2nd batch sparge water up to temperature?

I don't, actually. Kaiser's article about cold sparging convinced me, and I haven't noticed a single downside since I've been doing it.

I also use a nylon mesh bag to help me get my spent grains out easily (BIAB-style, though with the sparging, false-bottom and recirculation, this isn't really the true spirit of BIAB).

Don't let me talk you out of your system, though. Everybody on here's got a different set-up and you'll likely notice that yours changes over the coming months and years. I do like my system for its convenience, though. I go about 4- to 4.5-hours from stove-on to cleanup, with results that match or beat everything else I've tried.

 

[Anbrand]

I'll have to read up on the cold sparge. Do you recirculate using a pump? Is so, which one?

My goal from the start was to have fun making good beer. I immediately found that home brewing is way more of an art than science and most every home brewer has a different opinion. There is no one right way to brew. You are the first one-vessel AG brewer I've heard of. It doesn't get any simpler than that. Some brewers try to automate nearly everything. I would not find much fun in pulling up a recipe and pushing a couple buttons. Viola, beer is ready in six weeks.

I've also found it hard to discern from all the differing opinions, processes, and equipment which direction to go. I want to move to AG without breaking the bank while utilizing the equipment I already have. I very much appreciate your reply to my questions.

 

[MalFet]

I'll have to read up on the cold sparge. Do you recirculate using a pump? Is so, which one?

My goal from the start was to have fun making good beer. I immediately found that home brewing is way more of an art than science and most every home brewer has a different opinion. There is no one right way to brew. You are the first one-vessel AG brewer I've heard of. It doesn't get any simpler than that. Some brewers try to automate nearly everything. I would not find much fun in pulling up a recipe and pushing a couple buttons. Viola, beer is ready in six weeks.

I've also found it hard to discern from all the differing opinions, processes, and equipment which direction to go. I want to move to AG without breaking the bank while utilizing the equipment I already have. I very much appreciate your reply to my questions.

Yep. I use the March 315HF sold at MoreBeer.

Sounds like good goals. Start simple and small, then gradually build up. Most of all, enjoy!