Man, I love Apfelwein

[dave8274]

Not sure what else to do at this point. I have 3 batches that are all approaching 2 months the carboy. I've tried adding pectic enzyme, degassing one of them, and adding champagne yeast to 2 of them a couple weeks ago. They just aren't clearing at all. Meanwhile, I started a batch 2 weeks ago with Lalvin-1118 and that one seems to be clearing well. Any other ideas?

 

[twofocused]

Got my first 10 gallons going today. 1.10 Gravity WOAHHHH

-EC 1118 yeast to reach higher abv levels
-5 pounds cane sugar
-2 pounds light brown sugar
-yeast nutrient
-Oh yeah and 5 gallons apple juice

Can hardly wait. The plan is to age them until January or so then bottle. Let them sit in bottles a few months and then pass them out. This is going to be a hangover machine.

Thanks to everyone for answering my questions.

 

[jstampler]

Not sure what else to do at this point. I have 3 batches that are all approaching 2 months the carboy. I've tried adding pectic enzyme, degassing one of them, and adding champagne yeast to 2 of them a couple weeks ago. They just aren't clearing at all. Meanwhile, I started a batch 2 weeks ago with Lalvin-1118 and that one seems to be clearing well. Any other ideas?

I had the same thing a couple months ago. I added super-kleer and 2 weeks later it was completely clear.

 

[dave8274]

I had the same thing a couple months ago. I added super-kleer and 2 weeks later it was completely clear.

Nice, thanks, looks like my LHBS has that in stock. How did it taste?

Also, and idea why yours didn't clear? The only thing I can think of with mine is the fermenting temperature might have been a bit low (mid/high 60s) but other than that, I followed the recipe exactly, even used the same Tree-Top Apple juice.

 

[jstampler]

Nice, thanks, looks like my LHBS has that in stock. How did it taste? Also, and idea why yours didn't clear? The only thing I can think of with mine is the fermenting temperature might have been a bit low (mid/high 60s) but other than that, I followed the recipe exactly, even used the same Tree-Top Apple juice.

It turned out great once I got it cleared. It was my first batch of this stuff and I saw a couple posts where people said that they would give the carboy a little swirl once a day to keep fermentation going. I thought it was weird but it's also a very different kind of recipe so I just did it. Bad idea I guess. My second and third batches I didn't touch after pitching and they cleared perfectly on their own. Did you swirl or move yours at all?

 

[dave8274]

It turned out great once I got it cleared. It was my first batch of this stuff and I saw a couple posts where people said that they would give the carboy a little swirl once a day to keep fermentation going. I thought it was weird but it's also a very different kind of recipe so I just did it. Bad idea I guess. My second and third batches I didn't touch after pitching and they cleared perfectly on their own. Did you swirl or move yours at all?

Not for the 1st 5 or 6 weeks. When it wasn't clearing, at that point I swirled one and moved it upstairs where it is a little warmer. Then when that didn't work, I did some degassing, pithed some champagne yeast (my SG was 1.006) added some pectic enzyme, etc. but nothing helped.

In the future, I am going to try a different brand of juice, I think that's the only real constant in the batches that won't clear.

 

[emmanuec]

Not for the 1st 5 or 6 weeks. When it wasn't clearing, at that point I swirled one and moved it upstairs where it is a little warmer. Then when that didn't work, I did some degassing, pithed some champagne yeast (my SG was 1.006) added some pectic enzyme, etc. but nothing helped. In the future, I am going to try a different brand of juice, I think that's the only real constant in the batches that won't clear.

Which juice brand are you using?

 

[dave8274]

Which juice brand are you using?

Tree Top, though I'll be switching to Member's Mark from Sam's in the future. It's less expensive anyway.

 

[Hello]

My EC-1118 yeast didn't seem to pick up speed until day 2. This morning I came down to this and it makes me feel a lot better about this batch. I dry pitched for the first time and originally had the carboy in a swamp cooler for the first night. The temps in NC dropped so I took it out and now it has warmed up to about 85º. It's sitting at room temp now.

I think this will work out after all. I want to make another batch but maybe try the turbo cider recipe.

 

[dave8274]

Tree Top, though I'll be switching to Member's Mark from Sam's in the future. It's less expensive anyway.

Ont thing I noticed is that on the nutrition info, the Tree Top says 29 g Carbohydrate, 26 g Sugar, while the Member's Mark has both at 28 g. I wonder if the 3 g of non-sugar carbohydrate might be what is causing the problem? At the same time, plenty of people have used Tree Top without issue.

I have a carboy going right now that I started on 9/18 with Member's Mark and the Lalvin 1118 yeast, and it is already clearer than my other much older batches.

I'd like to try a batch with just Member's Mark and Montrachet, as I am not sure how close to the original recipe the Lalvin turns out.

 

[finsfan]

Ont thing I noticed is that on the nutrition info, the Tree Top says 29 g Carbohydrate, 26 g Sugar, while the Member's Mark has both at 28 g. I wonder if the 3 g of non-sugar carbohydrate might be what is causing the problem? At the same time, plenty of people have used Tree Top without issue.

I have a carboy going right now that I started on 9/18 with Member's Mark and the Lalvin 1118 yeast, and it is already clearer than my other much older batches.

I'd like to try a batch with just Member's Mark and Montrachet, as I am not sure how close to the original recipe the Lalvin turns out.

Just relax and give it more time. It seems like youve been doing a lot to the cloudy batch and it doesnt surprise me that it hasnt cleared. Wait another month and then see where its at. If worst comes to worst, stick it in the fridge to cold crash it a few days before bottling. But thats only if nothing happens in a month or two. I cant stress patience enough

 

[dave8274]

Just relax and give it more time. It seems like youve been doing a lot to the cloudy batch and it doesnt surprise me that it hasnt cleared. Wait another month and then see where its at. If worst comes to worst, stick it in the fridge to cold crash it a few days before bottling. But thats only if nothing happens in a month or two. I cant stress patience enough

I don't have a problem with that, other than EdWort said not to leave it on the yeast for more than 3 months. I've got plenty of beer to drink while I wait

 

[finsfan]

I don't have a problem with that, other than EdWort said not to leave it on the yeast for more than 3 months. I've got plenty of beer to drink while I wait

O I did not read that. I thought he said the longer the better. I had planned on leaving mine in the carboy for 4 months, I guess I can drink it sooner now

 

[munro]

I think he said aging is good but not on the yeast cake. So in keg or bottles after 6 months it really hits its stride

 

[Leadgolem]

Not sure what else to do at this point. I have 3 batches that are all approaching 2 months the carboy. I've tried adding pectic enzyme, degassing one of them, and adding champagne yeast to 2 of them a couple weeks ago. They just aren't clearing at all. Meanwhile, I started a batch 2 weeks ago with Lalvin-1118 and that one seems to be clearing well. Any other ideas?...

I had the same thing a couple months ago. I added super-kleer and 2 weeks later it was completely clear.

I was going to suggest bentonite powder rather then super-kleer, but yeah. Try a fining agent.

Something else that you can try, is pasteurizing a sample. Pull a quart or so and heat it to 140-160f in a pan on your stove. Then put it in your fridge. If the sample clears, you might want to batch pasteurize the whole batch. Let it clear at room temperature, then rack off the lees and bottle. It will take two or three times longer to clear at room temperature then it will in the fridge, but it should still clear if the sample did. You'll know in about a day if your sample is going to clear.

I'm not sure why, but sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't.

I think he said aging is good but not on the yeast cake. So in keg or bottles after 6 months it really hits its stride

It's been debated back and forth, but I personally prefer to get mine off the yeast cake in less then six weeks. I've had wine occasionally develop a soy sauce like flavor if you leave it on the yeast to long. Cider seems to be more tolerant, but no need to take the risk IMO.

 

[BamaProud]

Good luck leaving it alone that long once you have tasted it.

That reminds me though, it should be just about time for some good apple cider to show up in stores. I'll have to start keeping an eye out for some.

Oh I will definitely have to make more in order to keep the temptation down!

 

[dave8274]

I was going to suggest bentonite powder rather then super-kleer, but yeah. Try a fining agent.
.

Will a fining agent damage the yeast? I'm planning to bottle carb this.

 

[bleme]

Will a fining agent damage the yeast? I'm planning to bottle carb this.

Gelatin doesn't damage the yeast. Which agent are you thinking about?

 

[dave8274]

Looks like my LHBS has several, including bentonite and sparkeloid, so I was just going to go compare prices unless one is a clear winner. I do want to make sure I can still bottle carb though.

 

[DrewschBag]

Has anyone done anything to get a little more "nose" in this? I'm thinking the CO2 scrubs it all away during ferment. Maybe if I held back a gallon and added it after a couple of weeks I would get more aroma?

 

[bleme]

Has anyone done anything to get a little more "nose" in this? I'm thinking the CO2 scrubs it all away during ferment. Maybe if I held back a gallon and added it after a couple of weeks I would get more aroma?

You can get more "nose" by "dry-hopping" it with Granny Smiths.

 

[DrewschBag]

You can get more "nose" by "dry-hopping" it with Granny Smiths.

I like that idea! But it sounds like a PITA when you factor in the carboy.

 

[Leadgolem]

Will a fining agent damage the yeast? I'm planning to bottle carb this.

No. Different fining agents work differently. I don't know of any that will cause problems with the yeast though.

Here's a fairly good article on the fining agents as it applies to wine.
https://winemakermag.com/26-a-clearer-understanding-of-fining-agents

Basically, most fining agents work by having a strong charge and attracting particulates out of the liquid like a magnet. They then form masses large and heavy enough to fall out of suspension.

You will probably notice comments about flavor stripping in the article. When you remove particulates you are also removing some flavor compounds from the brew. Usually that's a good thing for white wine, or cider. For red wine, sometimes yes, sometimes no. It depends on the style of the wine.

 

[Leadgolem]

I like that idea! But it sounds like a PITA when you factor in the carboy.

It would be. That's best done in a fermenting bucket. You'd also want some pectin enzyme if you want it to clear. The pectin ends up in the brew and will haze it unless you neutralize it.

I'm not sure what it would do to the aroma, but acid blend or citric acid would give you most of the tang you'd get from the apples. It would be easier to do in a carboy too.

 

[Kdog22]

I racked my 1st batch of apfelwein into a secondary carboy and topped up with water this past weekend. It has been in the primary since June. Pretty color and nice and clear. FINALLY got my first sample taste of it, too, since I have not opened up the airlock since I put everything together. Has a great flavor already for it's age. I think the montrache yeast compliments this brew well. Already fairly smooth and the presence of apple is there with a good overall flavor. Cannot wait until Christmas to hand this out as gifts and crack open my first bottle. If I can wait that long..

I may still bottle carb half of the batch depending on funds and when I can get to my LHBS.

VERY happy with my results so far considering how easy this is to put together. Will probably be one of my regular brews to keep coming down the pipeline.

 

[snooby]

I ended up using us-05 yeast instead of the mono wine yeast in the recipe. Can I still age this in the primary for 3 months? Never used a wine yeast before so I don't know the differences.

 

[dave8274]

Well, unlike my Montrachet batches that still aren't clear after 2 months (though one of them seems to be clearing a little), the batch I made with EC-1118 on 9/18 is already crystal clear after 3 weeks. Should I go ahead and bottle it, or will it still benefit from some time bulk conditioning?

 

[blackhammer]

It would be. That's best done in a fermenting bucket. You'd also want some pectin enzyme if you want it to clear. The pectin ends up in the brew and will haze it unless you neutralize it.

I started a batch in a 5 gallon better bottle on 10-5-13. I would like to add some Granny Smith apples after fermentation in complete. Would the following be a feasible plan? Add 2 lbs of Granny Smiths to a bucket and rack the dry Apfelwein onto it for two weeks, then scoop out the apples. Then add the pectic enzyme.

How long after adding the pectic enzyme should I wait before bottling?

 

[Leadgolem]

I started a batch in a 5 gallon better bottle on 10-5-13. I would like to add some Granny Smith apples after fermentation in complete. Would the following be a feasible plan? Add 2 lbs of Granny Smiths to a bucket and rack the dry Apfelwein onto it for two weeks, then scoop out the apples. Then add the pectic enzyme.

How long after adding the pectic enzyme should I wait before bottling?

That would work just fine. It will take the pectin enzyme between 1 and 3 days to do it's job with alcohol in solution. It will take another few days for the particulates that were caught in the pectin to drop. So, a week is usually about right after removing the fruit and adding the enzyme.

 

[Dolomieu]

I have some that's just about ten months old. I'm glad I held out.

 

[blackhammer]

Thanks Leadgolem, I appreciate the info!

 

[munro]

I've had my first batch in primary for almost 10 weeks. Went into bucket July 31st. Guess its time to bottle soon eh? Would like to sweeten it a bit but have no access locally to lactose and this thread is so long I don't have the patience to read through it to find another way. I think I'll just carb it with priming sugar and then sweeten with 7up or sprite or more apple juice as needed unless someone can impart some wisdom. Is it 3/4 cup dextrose to prime? Thanks in advance

 

[Leadgolem]

I've had my first batch in primary for almost 10 weeks. Went into bucket July 31st. Guess its time to bottle soon eh? Would like to sweeten it a bit but have no access locally to lactose and this thread is so long I don't have the patience to read through it to find another way. I think I'll just carb it with priming sugar and then sweeten with 7up or sprite or more apple juice as needed unless someone can impart some wisdom. Is it 3/4 cup dextrose to prime? Thanks in advance

You could also sweeten with baking splenda. Just don't use the packets, they have an anti-clumping agent in them that is partially fermentable.

You would want to use a priming sugar calculator. It's probably going to be closer to 4 oz, or a half a cup.

 

[munro]

So just stir in the baking Splenda to taste and then carb?

 

[Leadgolem]

Exactly. Baking splenda isn't fermentable at all.

 

[TexasWine]

I've had my first batch in primary for almost 10 weeks. Went into bucket July 31st. Guess its time to bottle soon eh? Would like to sweeten it a bit but have no access locally to lactose and this thread is so long I don't have the patience to read through it to find another way. I think I'll just carb it with priming sugar and then sweeten with 7up or sprite or more apple juice as needed unless someone can impart some wisdom. Is it 3/4 cup dextrose to prime? Thanks in advance

You can definitely sweeten and bottle carb. Check out the pasteurization sticky in the cider forum. It gives great step by step instructions on the entire procedure, and it's very very simple.

 

[munro]

But it does require pasteurization even if using something like Splenda? I might just not sweeten if that's the case and just prime and bottle as I have enough bottling/Kevin/brewing to do I don't need another step at the moment

 

[jstampler]

I've never carbed anything before but I think I want to carb my next batch since I have 2 going at once right now. I don't think I'll sweeten it so can someone give me the specifics on how I would carb it?

From reading this thread and others I think I have a good idea but I don't want to leave out a step that could be critical. Do I take 4-5 ounces of priming sugar (for my 5.5 gallon batch), mix it with a few ounces of warm water and put it in my bucket and then rack my Apfelwein on top of it, stir and then bottle? Is it that simple? Do I need to use K-meta(campden) or Sorb? Do I need to let it sit for a while before bottling it or just bottle right away? Do I need to pasteurize it if I'm not planning on sweetening it?

 

[TexasWine]

But it does require pasteurization even if using something like Splenda? I might just not sweeten if that's the case and just prime and bottle as I have enough bottling/Kevin/brewing to do I don't need another step at the moment

No pasteurization required of you use a non fermentable like splenda.

 

[munro]

Awesome thanks. Last two things. I know it's all subject to ones own taste but is there a good start point for how much Splenda to a 5 gallon. This ties into oxidation. I'm thinking if I stir it in then keep adding to taste and keep stiring it will oxidize it. Is that a concern with apfelwine? Anyone had any off tastes from leaving it on yeast cake for almost 3 months?