making my first pilsner. pitching question

[raptorvan]

So I'm reading this recipe and it says to ferment at 50 degrees.....my question is this, do i pitch at 50 degrees as well or do i pitch at the 65-70 that most beers call for and then stick it in the cooler? And if i do pitch warmer, do i let fermentation begin before i cooler it?

 

[sagnew440]

I'm getting ready to brew my first lager tomorrow. I've heard of starting it high, then lowering the temps. Also starting in low, around 45-48deg and raising it to the ferm temp. Personally I'm going to pitch it low and raise it.

 

[osagedr]

Pitching low and raising it is the better method IMO, but you HAVE TO PITCH ENOUGH YEAST if you decide to go this route. A lot of new lager brewers underpitch. Pitching high and cooling is more forgiving but then a greater proportion of early fermentation occurs outside the proper temperature range, and might lead to off flavours.

If you must pitch warm and then drop your temp, try to do it around 60 rather than around 70.

 

[ceweldon]

Just made my first Pilsner last week. I waited a bit and pitched at 50, I didn't want to risk the chance of any off flavors from pitching at too high a temperature.

 

[raptorvan]

Pitching low and raising it is the better method IMO, but you HAVE TO PITCH ENOUGH YEAST if you decide to go this route. A lot of new lager brewers underpitch. Pitching high and cooling is more forgiving but then a greater proportion of early fermentation occurs outside the proper temperature range, and might lead to off flavours.

If you must pitch warm and then drop your temp, try to do it around 60 rather than around 70.

Ok so pitching low...IE UNDER 50 degrees then raising it TO 50. Degrees is better? So do you pitch then immediately go into conditioning or let fermentation start then. Ring the temps up?.....

That question is posed for the pitch warm then drop method too.

Whynot just pitch at the fermentation temp?

 

[metal850]

Ok so pitching low...IE UNDER 50 degrees then raising it TO 50. Degrees is better? So do you pitch then immediately go into conditioning or let fermentation start then. Ring the temps up?.....

That question is posed for the pitch warm then drop method too.

Whynot just pitch at the fermentation temp?

You don't condition until fermentation is done. I've noticed too many esters when pitching warm. In my experience yeast tend to react more favorably to temperature rises than temperature drops (this is true for ales or lagers)

 

[rockfish42]

More than you could ever want to know about lager fermentation
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers
Pitching low minimizes esters and diacetyl if you pitch adequate yeast, you can often get away without a diacetyl rest.

 

[944play]

I'm not sure I can agree with the pitch-warm-if-you-don't-have-enough-cells advice at all. I think lager yeasties are more active than spoilage microbes around the 50ºF range, so I'd probably prefer to underpitch cold and be patient than let bacteria and wild yeast get a chance.

This is based on not very much empirical data, so YMMV.

 

[rockfish42]

I think the pitching warm idea is to avoid stressed yeast off flavors or excessive diacetyl. My first lagers years ago were pitched warm and took a long time to clean up but ended up being very decent. Alternatively s-23 at 60ish degrees makes something that's almost but not quite exactly unlike a proper lager.

 

[MaynardX]

IMHO, the best bet is to pitch the correct amount of yeast at your fermentation temp.

 

[raptorvan]

I'm not sure aabout pitching warm...it seems to me that any yeast production and fermentation that happens before the wort cools down would produce off flavors

 

[944play]

I think the pitching warm idea is to avoid stressed yeast off flavors or excessive diacetyl.

Probably yes, but what situation results in more diacetyl, a long cool growth phase or a shorter warm one? IDK.

This is probably an unwelcome tangent in context, but I can share what has worked very well for me. 2308 is totally my baby. I pitch at least half of what MrMalty recommends, at ferment temp, and oxygenate for about a minute. Diacetyl is zilch (in pleasant contrast to 34/70) and sulfur is low, especially if a d-rest happens. Repitches are generally a little bit better, but straight off the starter ain't bad.

 

[osagedr]

Diacetyl is zilch (in pleasant contrast to 34/70) and sulfur is low, especially if a d-rest happens.

Never had diacetyl with 34/70 myself...then again I always do a d-rest.

I'm sure I've asked you this before, but I can't remember what temp you typically ferment at with 2308.

 

[944play]

10 ºc, 50 ºf