Making hard water soft??

[Cobrachu]

Hey all, first post here. My question is do you think it's possible that by boiling my very hard, highly alkaline water before mashing in I am creating soft water?

I ask because all of my dark beers, say an amber or darker, have a taste I think is tannins. Butterscotch or anise??? I draw all my water the day before brewing to let the chlorine dissipate and also add Camden to aid with that. I bypass our water softener and flush the lines also.

I usually boil all my water and dump my strike volume in my mash tun to preheat it before mashing in. I also use 5.2. There is not even a hint of this flavor in my lighter ales which from what I have read is contrary to what I should be brewing with this hard water.

Am I softening it by boiling it beforehand? There is always chalk in the pots when I am done so I would assume so. I have been contemplating a water analysis and salts/ph meter, but SHMBO would probably roll her eyes at me if I told her I need more stuff for my obsession I mean hobby.

If I were to an analysis, would it be better to send the preboiled water or the boiled water?

Thanks for any thoughts, I've been lurking these forums for a long time and my keezer is full or recipes from this site. Great site

 

[afr0byte]

Hey all, first post here. My question is do you think it's possible that by boiling my very hard, highly alkaline water before mashing in I am creating soft water?

I ask because all of my dark beers, say an amber or darker, have a taste I think is tannins. Butterscotch or anise??? I draw all my water the day before brewing to let the chlorine dissipate and also add Camden to aid with that. I bypass our water softener and flush the lines also.

I usually boil all my water and dump my strike volume in my mash tun to preheat it before mashing in. I also use 5.2. There is not even a hint of this flavor in my lighter ales which from what I have read is contrary to what I should be brewing with this hard water.

Am I softening it by boiling it beforehand? There is always chalk in the pots when I am done so I would assume so. I have been contemplating a water analysis and salts/ph meter, but SHMBO would probably roll her eyes at me if I told her I need more stuff for my obsession I mean hobby.

If I were to an analysis, would it be better to send the preboiled water or the boiled water?

Thanks for any thoughts, I've been lurking these forums for a long time and my keezer is full or recipes from this site. Great site

Normally darker beers would have fewer problems wIth tannins. Perhaps it isn't tannins you're tasting. A butterscotch flavor sounds more like diacetyl.

Yes you're softening the water by boiling if you leave behind that chalk that forms. I'd use the preboiled water for the analysis.

 

[Cobrachu]

If its diacetyl then why just in the darker beers?

 

[Beernik]

You can reduce the calcium carbonate (temporary hardness) by boiling and cooling.

Are you using different yeasts for the light & dark beers? If so , it could be a yeast strain - ferment temp issue.

 

[ajdelange]

Hey all, first post here. My question is do you think it's possible that by boiling my very hard, highly alkaline water before mashing in I am creating soft water?

If chalk is precipitating then hardness and alkalinity are both being reduced.

I ask because all of my dark beers, say an amber or darker, have a taste I think is tannins.

Tannins are not so much tasted as felt as a pinching or tightening sensation in the back of the throat nothing like

Butterscotch

which would be due to diacetyl or use of too much caramel malt and or scorching during the boil

or anise???

Ethyl hexanoate - probably a fermentation problem though some is found in hops.

I draw all my water the day before brewing to let the chlorine dissipate and also add Camden to aid with that.

No need to let water stand if Campden tablets are used. If chlorine only (no chloramine) standing is sufficent treatment.

I bypass our water softener and flush the lines also.

Good

I usually boil all my water and dump my strike volume in my mash tun to preheat it before mashing in. I also use 5.2.

Don't do that (use 5.2 that is). It just loads your mash up with sodium and doesn't have any beneficial effect on mash pH to speak of.

There is not even a hint of this flavor in my lighter ales which from what I have read is contrary to what I should be brewing with this hard water.

Astringency (what you are probably tasting) can be caused by high mash pH which would be more of a problem with light beers than dark but it can also come from too much roast malt.

Am I softening it by boiling it beforehand? There is always chalk in the pots when I am done so I would assume so.

I have been contemplating a water analysis and salts/ph meter, but SHMBO would probably roll her eyes at me if I told her I need more stuff for my obsession I mean hobby.

Tell her that global warming is causing a change in pH and that you are worried about the effects of this on her and the kids. Find one of those charts on a quack site that shows that high pH causes cancer (or is it low pH?).

If I were to an analysis, would it be better to send the preboiled water or the boiled water?

Pre. You need to know what you are starting out with. We can estimate what your post boil water will probably be like but if you do get into decarbonation you will need to be doing tests on both pre and post boiled to see how much alkalinity has actually been reduced. You'll need alkalinity and hardness test kits for that.

 

[Cobrachu]

Wow! Thanks for your insight! I know I have a lot to learn, I am by no means an expert. Nearly all my recipes come from this site and the yeasts used have been nearly all different. My fermentation temps could very well be a suspect, I just put it on the basement floor which right now is about 62 degrees. I just found it odd that all things being the same (water prep, mash procedures, ferm temps) that I only notice the taste with the darker beers. That is why I was suspecting the effects of my water and mash ph with the darker grains in the mash. I am going to be getting the analysis done if nothing else, just to know. Thanks again!

 

[mabrungard]

If I were to an analysis, would it be better to send the preboiled water or the boiled water?

If preboiling is your normal brewing water procedure, then sending the boiled water for analysis is FAR better than a preboiled sample. That would take more of the guesswork out of what the starting water quality is. Although there is a simple formula on the Water Knowledge page of the Bru'n Water website, it still takes a guess about the final bicarbonate or calcium content in the boiled water to complete the calculation.

With all that said above, having the preboiled water quality could also be valuable since there might be a rare occasion when you want a little more alkalinity in your brewing water and you can use this information to estimate how much of that water you will need.