Water profile advice

[stiray]

I have an issue, next to my house is a spring, which is considered as "healing" by the locals but I don't have any water analysis, it is drinkable, often used by aquarists, the only thing that I know is that it has 5.3 pH.

On the other side, this is our tap water, chlorine is almost never used and even than for only for short period of time on special events (earthquake, drought, flooding,...).

pH: 7.4
Calcium: 73 mg/l
Magnesium: 5 mg/l
Sodium: 25 mg/l
Potassium: 0.85 mg/l
Chloride: 7.68 mg/l
Nitrate: 13.7 mg/l
Sulfate: 10.9 mg/l
Chlorine: 0 mg/l

Full analysis, in our language, but chemistry names are similar all over the world, Water Analysis.

Since I don't know much about spring water, I wanted to experiment a bit with tap water, but again I am greenhorn, could someone suggest me what/if there is something to improve?

For now, I am in love in Belgian tripels, but i have an issue with spring water as it goes down to pH 4.86 before fermentation and it leaves a very slight sour aftertaste at 1.005 (OG 1.080, M31 yeast) which bothers me a bit, it is not unpleasant but not really tripelish.

Any suggestion? From what to improve on water profile to what beer would be more appropriate for it, I am all ears. If you need some more info, I am glad to provide it, just ask.

 

[lumpher]

Adding 1 tsp of baking soda per gallon into the mash will increase alkalinity to a normal level.

 

[stiray]

Adding 1 tsp of baking soda per gallon into the mash will increase alkalinity to a normal level.

Hm, I have 2.5 gallon kegged for experiments, can I do it after fermentation?

Actually more exact question would be: can low pH in mash be the reason for sour after-taste? I was reading about possible infections but I keep sanitary at highest levels and all transfer from wort is, Aussie style, from mashing "all in one" at 100C to stainless steel fermentor, where it is cooled down in CO2 environment and later transferred to kegs in closed circle?

I mean, if I am doing something wrong, I am all for adjustment, but since the liquid is transferred at ~100C and the fermentor is prefilled with CO2 and PBWed/Starsaned, there should be no reason for infection, even without starsan, it is still liquid at ~100C (preheating all the empty space filled with CO2 in fermentor) that should kill everything floating around. Imho, I am just very theoretical here, don't have experience to lean on...

 

[lumpher]

Low mash ph will definitely account for it. The profile of the wort is set during mash... sour, sweet, dry, etc. Once mash is done, you have what you have, barring infection or intentional alterations. Not drawing a line and saying there are no exceptions, though.

 

[AlexKay]

• For me at least, if I had two water sources and only one was analyzed, I wouldn’t mess around with the one I knew nothing about. What’s the benefit?
• This is doubly so, since you tried the spring water and didn’t like the results.
• pH of your water before brewing is generally speaking not useful information.
• If that 4.86 is your mash pH, it’s a little low. My guess, though, is that you wouldn’t taste any difference in the beer. Maybe a slight thinness.
• If the 4.86 is your wort pH, post-boil, it’s probably just fine. People sometimes go out of their way to acidify their wort below this level. It’s almost certainly not a problem.
• I don’t know why you’d get a sour taste in the finished beer using spring water. It has nothing to do with the pH values you’ve measured. Maybe mineral content? Too much magnesium? I’m guessing here.
• Your tap water has good mineral levels for brewing, or could be easily adjusted, BUT:
• The nitrate levels are potentially unsafe, not just for beer but for everyday drinking water. I’m not a doctor or an engineer, but I would urge you to use bottled water known to be safe for infants and pregnant women.

 

[camonick]

The nitrate levels are potentially unsafe, not just for beer but for everyday drinking water. I’m not a doctor or an engineer, but I would urge you to use bottled water known to be safe for infants and pregnant women.

Yeah, definitely this^^^
I know the OP doesn’t live in the United States, but the US EPA considers anything over 10 mg/L to be unsafe to drink and the OP’s water is pushing 14.

 

[stiray]

Hm, interesting to know, thank you for mentioning, but looks like in EU this is a bit different. The top allowed level is 50mg/l and it seems interesting as typically EU is much more restrictive regarding food/drink than US.

https://environment.ec.europa.eu/topics/water/nitrates_en
Movement of nitrates values over the years and after a check on the internet, 50mg/l is also in compliance with bunch of other countries:

 

[stiray]

Hm, there is also the second value, called "Nitrat 50 nitrit 3", here the situation is a bit different, the max allowed value in EU is 1 mg/l and we never come even close to it.

Hm, this might be it, I have found this from Pennsylvania State University: Nitrates in Drinking Water

"Supplies should not contain more than 45 mg/l of nitrate or 10 mg/l of nitrate-nitrogen"

 

[stiray]

Yep this is it, verified a few other sources, there are two types of nitrate.

@AlexKay and @camonick, I really appreciate the warning, but you scared the **** out of me If I would get this to FB there would be riots

Just as interesting detail from our constitution, Art. 70.a:

Everyone has the right to drinking water. Water resources are a public good under state management. Water sources serve primarily and sustainably supply the population with drinking water and water for household supply, and in this respect are not a marketable commodity. The population is supplied with drinking water and water for household supply by the state through self-governing local communities directly and on a non-profit basis.

 

[dwightr8]

I have an issue, next to my house is a spring, which is considered as "healing" by the locals but I don't have any water analysis, it is drinkable, often used by aquarists, the only thing that I know is that it has 5.3 pH.

On the other side, this is our tap water, chlorine is almost never used and even than for only for short period of time on special events (earthquake, drought, flooding,...).

Full analysis, in our language, but chemistry names are similar all over the world, Water Analysis.

Since I don't know much about spring water, I wanted to experiment a bit with tap water, but again I am greenhorn, could someone suggest me what/if there is something to improve?

For now, I am in love in Belgian tripels, but i have an issue with spring water as it goes down to pH 4.86 before fermentation and it leaves a very slight sour aftertaste at 1.005 (OG 1.080, M31 yeast) which bothers me a bit, it is not unpleasant but not really tripelish.

Any suggestion? From what to improve on water profile to what beer would be more appropriate for it, I am all ears. If you need some more info, I am glad to provide it, just ask.

You probably live in an agricultural area. Your nitrate levels are in the unsafe range. (anything over 10mg/l is considered unsafe). We have the same problem where we live so we use nothing but bottled water for drinking (and beer making). If possible you should get the spring water tested. It may be alright.

 

[stiray]

You probably live in an agricultural area. Your nitrate levels are in the unsafe range. (anything over 10mg/l is considered unsafe). We have the same problem where we live so we use nothing but bottled water for drinking (and beer making). If possible you should get the spring water tested. It may be alright.

It was misunderstanding, just to avoid confusion in this topic, there are two types of nitrates with different maximum threshold:

Nitrates #1 - legal allowance 50mg/l in EU, don't know about US, probably similar, our tap water 16mg/l max
Nitrates #2 - legal allowance 1mg/l in EU, 10mg/l in US, our tap water 0.33mg/l at max in 9 years of analysis published on internet.

The requirement for #1 and #2 were wrongly cross compared. We have extremely clean water, I could bottle it.

Nitrates in Drinking Water

"Supplies should not contain more than 45 mg/l of nitrate or 10 mg/l of nitrate-nitrogen"

This should explain it in full, but it is much more to read: Drinking Water Nitrate and Human Health: An Updated Review

 

[mabrungard]

Visit the Bru'n Water site and go to Section 2.5.1 Undesirable Ions to see what is the limit.

Bru'n Water

 

[stiray]

mabrungard, thank you, wealth of info in regards to everything else too.

So if I understand this correctly, nitrate levels for beer should be bellow 24,97 mg/l (mine: 13.7 mg/l) due to possibility to be converted to nitrates (mine: 0.0050mg/l), as a result of bacteria infection (which we don't want anyway). I will survive.

----

In regard to "Nitrate 50 nitrite 3" that was puzzling me, it is so called "TON Consent Parameter" that should always be < 1 and is calculated by (in mg/l):
(nitrate / 50) + (nitrite / 3)

"The TON Consent Parameter is a calculation from Nitrate and Nitrite values and the result should be less than 1 for the water to be considered wholesome. This result is directly linked to the Nitrate and/or Nitrite values. Any actions taken to reduce the Nitrate or Nitrite will lower this value as well."

so in my case: (13.7 / 50) + ( 0.005 / 3) = 0,275666667

(maybe it comes handy to someone later, the conversion factor from ppm to mg/l is 0.9988590004)