Low OG??

[Dave V]

Hi All,

Help!! I was trying to BIAB a recipe from Charlie Papzian:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/237705/who-s-in-the-garden-grand-cru

I followed the recipe closely but found that after ~40 mins of the brew a lot of it had boiled off. I panicked a bit and put 2L more water in but found the OG was pretty low (about 1.015, although I'm not 100% certain I didn't misread it). There wasn't a massive deal of action in the primary fermenter, FG was about 1.008. I then bottled and primed it last night, all seems to be going OK so far (yeast starting to drop out). I'm now fairly sure I diluted the wort with my water addition and have ended up with a pretty weak brew. Any ideas/thoughts/advice??

Sorry if these are dumb questions - this is only my 4th brew so I'm a bit of a newbie!

Thanks all - have already learned so much from scouring the forums!

Dave

 

[wilserbrewer]

1.015 OG is really low! I would think you had an inaccurate gravity reading unless your grain crush was extremely poor.

 

[Dgallo]

Many of my beers finish at 1.015. Something went terribly wrong

 

[NGD]

Few questions:

Your beer would have finished out at 0.92% abv. You would have a pretty watery brew if thats the case.

Did you try a sample? How did it taste?

What was the deciding factor to add that much water? A volume calculator or just eyeballing it?

How was your crush?

If it tastes close..then likely you just misread the OG sample and your probably fine. If it tastes way off...then its a good learning experience and you won’t likely make the same mistake again.

 

[Soulshine2]

Hi All,

Help!! I was trying to BIAB a recipe from Charlie Papzian:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/237705/who-s-in-the-garden-grand-cru

I followed the recipe closely but found that after ~40 mins of the brew a lot of it had boiled off. I panicked a bit and put 2L more water in but found the OG was pretty low (about 1.015, although I'm not 100% certain I didn't misread it). There wasn't a massive deal of action in the primary fermenter, FG was about 1.008. I then bottled and primed it last night, all seems to be going OK so far (yeast starting to drop out). I'm now fairly sure I diluted the wort with my water addition and have ended up with a pretty weak brew. Any ideas/thoughts/advice??

Sorry if these are dumb questions - this is only my 4th brew so I'm a bit of a newbie!

Thanks all - have already learned so much from scouring the forums!

Dave

What was the volume when you added the 2 liters of water? The recipe was only 4.5 liters to begin with. Boil off is normal . You should have a preboil volume of approximately 10 -15% more than your intended fermenting volume, also to offset your trub and yeast precipitant amount later. So, if your batch was 4.5 liters and you boiled some off but added 2 liters after the boil you not only reversed what boiling did but surpassed it and lowered the preboil gravity substantially. If you had a gravity reading of 1.015 you should have taken it back to boil to lower it back to your target. 4.5 liters is barely a gallon anyway. Such a small volume to make anything.

 

[IslandLizard]

Can you post your actual grain bill and how much water you used in your BIAB?
Was your grain crushed and finely enough? How long did you mash for and at what temp?

1.015 OG is awfully low. How and when did you read it?

 

[Dave V]

Few questions:

Your beer would have finished out at 0.92% abv. You would have a pretty watery brew if thats the case.

Did you try a sample? How did it taste?

What was the deciding factor to add that much water? A volume calculator or just eyeballing it?

How was your crush?

If it tastes close..then likely you just misread the OG sample and your probably fine. If it tastes way off...then its a good learning experience and you won’t likely make the same mistake again.

Hi NGD,

Thanks for the reply

In answer to your q's..

I sampled the wort - it seemed OK, fairly sweet, although as I said this is my 4th brew so I'm not mega experienced!

Deciding factor to add water was a panicky eyeball of the situation and putting what I thought was an appropriate amount in...not mega scientific!

I used fine crushed light wheat malt (it was pre crushed - not up to all graining just yet!)

I only bottled on Monday so it'll be a week or so before I sample the beer - it looks OK in the bottles so I'm hopeful it was just a dodgy reading (I was trying to brew while the kids and various other family members were floating about the house - I should have waited until no-one was in!)

Thanks so much for your reply, I'll keep you posted on the final taste!

Dave

 

[Dave V]

Can you post your actual grain bill and how much water you used in your BIAB?
Was your grain crushed and finely enough? How long did you mash for and at what temp?

1.015 OG is awfully low. How and when did you read it?

Hi Island Lizard,

Apols for newbieness - I guess grain bill is just a list of which grains I used?? I used 2.3kg of Weyermann Light Wheat Malt (fine crushed). It was mashed for an hour on a rolling boil.

For the OG I used a hydrometer shortly after the mash had finished although as per my above reply there were a few distractions so I'm hoping it was a dodgy reading on my part. I'll keep you posted!

Thanks so much for reply

Dave

 

[Dave V]

What was the volume when you added the 2 liters of water? The recipe was only 4.5 liters to begin with. Boil off is normal . You should have a preboil volume of approximately 10 -15% more than your intended fermenting volume, also to offset your trub and yeast precipitant amount later. So, if your batch was 4.5 liters and you boiled some off but added 2 liters after the boil you not only reversed what boiling did but surpassed it and lowered the preboil gravity substantially. If you had a gravity reading of 1.015 you should have taken it back to boil to lower it back to your target. 4.5 liters is barely a gallon anyway. Such a small volume to make anything.

Hi Soulshine,

thanks for the reply. Actually I've realised the recipe I posted was a scaled down version of the one in the book that I followed. I had a boil of 7.5 litres which was made up to 19 litres with cold water in the fermenter. I reckon the 2L I added replaced what had boiled off, i.e. got it back to about 7.5L

as per other replies, I'm thinking it was either a dodgy OG reading from me (in which case all well) or as you say above, I'd reduced the OG by adding the extra water (in which case I won't do it again!). I guess I'll find out in a couple of weeks when I taste the brew!

Thanks!

Dave

 

[Dave V]

Thanks all for replies - I'll keep you all posted when I open the bottles in a couple of weeks

 

[RM-MN]

Hi All,

Help!! I was trying to BIAB a recipe from Charlie Papzian:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/237705/who-s-in-the-garden-grand-cru

I followed the recipe closely but found that after ~40 mins of the brew a lot of it had boiled off. I panicked a bit and put 2L more water in but found the OG was pretty low (about 1.015, although I'm not 100% certain I didn't misread it). There wasn't a massive deal of action in the primary fermenter, FG was about 1.008. I then bottled and primed it last night, all seems to be going OK so far (yeast starting to drop out). I'm now fairly sure I diluted the wort with my water addition and have ended up with a pretty weak brew. Any ideas/thoughts/advice??

Sorry if these are dumb questions - this is only my 4th brew so I'm a bit of a newbie!

Thanks all - have already learned so much from scouring the forums!

Dave

Wild guess. You boiled off a lot of water which concentrated the wort, much like that of extract brewing. Then you added water to it, much like done in an extract batch where you add top off water. The water is difficult to get to mix well with the concentrated wort. This causes a very low OG reading and is the reason I often suggest that extract brewers just use the published expected OG instead of measuring. I suspect your wort was much higher in OG than the 1.015 you measured.

 

[Dave V]

Wild guess. You boiled off a lot of water which concentrated the wort, much like that of extract brewing. Then you added water to it, much like done in an extract batch where you add top off water. The water is difficult to get to mix well with the concentrated wort. This causes a very low OG reading and is the reason I often suggest that extract brewers just use the published expected OG instead of measuring. I suspect your wort was much higher in OG than the 1.015 you measured.

Thanks for the reply RM-MN - I hope it is this! I'll reply to the thread when I sample it in a couple of weeks. It looks fine in the bottles so here's hoping

 

[JimRausch]

It was mashed for an hour on a rolling boil.

Woops- did you boil WHILE mashing? Mashing is a separate process of converting starch to sugar and needs temperatures of 140-165 degrees f. If you were boiling it then, you destroyed any enzymes and it's no wonder you got basically no sugar. The boil happens after you have completed the mash and collected your sweet wort.
EDIT- shoot, I should have looked at the recipe first and saw that it is an extract recipe. In that case, it may have been a mixing issue and your OG may be closer to the recipe than you measured. Good Luck!

 

[IslandLizard]

I was trying to BIAB a recipe from Charlie Papzian:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/237705/who-s-in-the-garden-grand-cru

I used 2.3kg of Weyermann Light Wheat Malt (fine crushed). It was mashed for an hour on a rolling boil.

I followed the recipe closely...

Recipe on Brewer's Friend:
0.54 kg Dry Malt Extract - Extra Light

Look at the parts I emphasized in bold and red, they don't go together.

Malts and extracts need to be handled differently when brewing.
BIAB is an all-grain brewing process, using (crushed) malts that are 'mashed' between 148 and 160F for an hour, then 'lautered' (wort separated from the grain) and often 'sparged' (rinsed).

If you just dissolved malt extract it's not all-grain and not BIAB. The malting company did the hard work of mashing the grain, lautering, then condensing the resulting wort into an extract, either LME or DME.

You either used (wheat) malt extract or you used wheat malt. What was it exactly?

 

[Dave V]

Recipe on Brewer's Friend:
0.54 kg Dry Malt Extract - Extra Light

Look at the parts I emphasized in bold and red, they don't go together.

Malts and extracts need to be handled differently when brewing.
BIAB is an all-grain brewing process, using (crushed) malts that are 'mashed' between 148 and 160F for an hour, then 'lautered' (wort separated from the grain) and often 'sparged' (rinsed).

If you just dissolved malt extract it's not all-grain and not BIAB. The malting company did the hard work of mashing the grain, lautering, then condensing the resulting wort into an extract, either LME or DME.

You either used (wheat) malt extract or you used wheat malt. What was it exactly?

Hmmm I think that might be the issue - it was wheat malt, not malt extract (which also is mentioned by Jim Rausch's post above!). I'd meant to buy Malt extract but bought the wrong one doh. Which suggests I was boilin' when I shoulda been mashin' - I think that's the issue.

As a side point it also looks like I've been misusing the term BIAB! I did use a bag to avoid mess but it looks like BIAB is all grain rather than extract. I've got a lot to learn clearly! But the good thing is I'm learning - thanks so much for all your advice and help everyone

Cheers

Dave

 

[IslandLizard]

Hmmm I think that might be the issue - it was wheat malt, not malt extract (which also is mentioned by Jim Rausch's post above!).

Yup, @JimRausch was on the right track, just wanted to verify what you'd actually used. Darn, would have been better if it were a mere incomplete mixing issue.

As a side point it also looks like I've been misusing the term BIAB!

BIAB is a somewhat confusing term as it really should be called Mash in a Bag, MIAB. After the mash is over, the bag (with the spent grist) gets removed, leaving clear wort behind in the kettle. The mesh fabric is the sieve. Regardless of the misnomer, BIAB is a nifty method for all grain brewing using a single vessel. Not counting a bucket, tub, spare kettle, or so when electing to do a dunk sparge at the end.

 

[JimRausch]

Ah well, we all learn. Sometimes by making mistakes, sometimes by reading other's mistakes.
If you haven't already, I'd suggest getting John Palmer's 'How to Brew' (the latest version) and study it. It really is GOLD!

 

[IslandLizard]

I'd suggest getting John Palmer's 'How to Brew' (the latest version) and study it. It really is GOLD!

I second that! ^

4th Ed. is the latest one.

 

[Dave V]

@IslandLizard, @JimRausch @everybody, thanks for your advice and kind words! One last question - any ideas what the secondary fermentation will do? Presumably the taste will be off from the malty mishap earlier on - I primed it with 150g sugar for the 19 litre batch - I guess this will up the alcohol slightly and make it fizzy but not much else?

I've been going from Charlie Papazian's book so far which I've found really helpful but happy to take the recommendation and have just bought John Palmer!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

BIAB is a somewhat confusing term...

So it does not stand for Boil In A Bag?

Good luck Dave! It has been a while since my first few brews and I know I have made plenty of mistakes along the way.

Edit: After reading the thread more closely, I am a bit curious how this batch turns out. It sounds like wheat malt was boiled for an hour, with some hops and spices added into the mix. It could turn out to be a refreshing low abv wheat beer/drink...or it could be terrible.

 

[IslandLizard]

and have just bought John Palmer!

Excellent!

any ideas what the secondary fermentation will do?

Technically, bottle carbonating is a secondary fermentation, but generally not referred to as such. It's more commonly known as bottle conditioning (and carbonating).

Secondaries will do nothing good, but may (or will) create problems such as oxidation and infection. IOW, secondaries are basically not needed, with very few exceptions. With 99.999% of all beer, leave the beer in your "primary" fermenter until ready to package (bottle/keg). And don't open it up too much, let it be.

For comparison with your brew, many of us make yeast starters with liquid yeast. The OG (original gravity) of starter wort is typically 1.037-1.040, double the gravity from what you've got in this batch. The resulting beer from starters is pretty weak and meh tasting. At least you've got some hops and spice in yours, but it will be very weak though.

What yeast did you use? WLP400? Did you save it?

 

[Mic Carp]

Hmmm I think that might be the issue - it was wheat malt, not malt extract (which also is mentioned by Jim Rausch's post above!). I'd meant to buy Malt extract but bought the wrong one doh. Which suggests I was boilin' when I shoulda been mashin' - I think that's the issue.

As a side point it also looks like I've been misusing the term BIAB! I did use a bag to avoid mess but it looks like BIAB is all grain rather than extract. I've got a lot to learn clearly! But the good thing is I'm learning - thanks so much for all your advice and help everyone

Cheers

Dave

Dave!
Welcome to the world of homebrewing. Your questions remind me of where I was about 10 years ago. Now, after 10 years I am what you might call an experienced novice.
Things will click for you after a few more brews and reading through the forums.
My advice, keep brewing and if you can avoid the crowd while doing so it would help. Otherwise, enlist them to learn with you.

One piece of advice I learned during my first batch...

"It's Really really hard to make a really really great beer. But, it's also really really hard to make a really really crappy beer. most of the beers you make from a kit will be as good or better than most beer you can get in the grocery store!"

 

[TwistedGray]

I have moved into primarily brewing table beers and low ABV beers (2-3%), so my OGs mostly hover around 1.020-1.030. It is quite a challenge to add mouthfeel and depth to a very low ABV ("watered down") beer, but depending on the style it can be done.

With that out of the way, I would go straight from your fermentation vessel into bottles (bucket if you must) and avoid racking the beer off the yeast into another vessel to "clear it up". You are already struggling with an extremely low ABV beer, so any exposure to anything is likely to cause a much more rapid infection or at least it will amplify the likelihood of infection (compared to a higher ABV beer).

I hope that helps provide some additional feedback/thought on your situation.

 

[Dave V]

Dave!
Welcome to the world of homebrewing. Your questions remind me of where I was about 10 years ago. Now, after 10 years I am what you might call an experienced novice.
Things will click for you after a few more brews and reading through the forums.
My advice, keep brewing and if you can avoid the crowd while doing so it would help. Otherwise, enlist them to learn with you.

One piece of advice I learned during my first batch...

"It's Really really hard to make a really really great beer. But, it's also really really hard to make a really really crappy beer. most of the beers you make from a kit will be as good or better than most beer you can get in the grocery store!"

Thanks Loud Mic! (Love the name btw ) - in a roundabout way I'm actually quite pleased with the mistake I made on this, it's helped me learn, I'm keen to get more adventurous with my brewing and I guess I need this experience to develop. As they say, stars can't shine without the dark...

I'm going to sample the batch tonight, I'll let you know how it works out!

Dave

 

[Dave V]

I have moved into primarily brewing table beers and low ABV beers (2-3%), so my OGs mostly hover around 1.020-1.030. It is quite a challenge to add mouthfeel and depth to a very low ABV ("watered down") beer, but depending on the style it can be done.

With that out of the way, I would go straight from your fermentation vessel into bottles (bucket if you must) and avoid racking the beer off the yeast into another vessel to "clear it up". You are already struggling with an extremely low ABV beer, so any exposure to anything is likely to cause a much more rapid infection or at least it will amplify the likelihood of infection (compared to a higher ABV beer).

I hope that helps provide some additional feedback/thought on your situation.

Thanks Twisted Gray - it's too late in this case, when I bottled I went from the bucket into a keg to clear the trub (Not that there was much due to low fermentation levels) - I then bottled directly from the keg. I've been pretty much on point with my sanitation so fingers crossed it doesn't get infected, even if the taste is a bit weird. Should be sampling tonight, I'll let you know!

 

[Dave V]

@everyone who is interested - I just cracked a bottle of the doomed brew...it was very lively (luckily I opened it over the sink!) and while it wasn't undrinkable, it was completely tasteless not far off fizzy water. onwards and upwards - sadly a work trip and holiday mean I won't get to brew anything more until September but I'll pay extra attention to what I'm buying ingredients wise...thanks for help and advice everyone!

 

[NGD]

@everyone who is interested - I just cracked a bottle of the doomed brew...it was very lively (luckily I opened it over the sink!) and while it wasn't undrinkable, it was completely tasteless not far off fizzy water. onwards and upwards - sadly a work trip and holiday mean I won't get to brew anything more until September but I'll pay extra attention to what I'm buying ingredients wise...thanks for help and advice everyone!

Thats a bit of a bummer but it certainly isnt the worst. If your in marketing you can just say you were going for a sparkling hard water.

 

[RM-MN]

@everyone who is interested - I just cracked a bottle of the doomed brew...it was very lively (luckily I opened it over the sink!) and while it wasn't undrinkable, it was completely tasteless not far off fizzy water. onwards and upwards - sadly a work trip and holiday mean I won't get to brew anything more until September but I'll pay extra attention to what I'm buying ingredients wise...thanks for help and advice everyone!

I don't know just when you brewed this beer but your first post about it was July 30 when you said you bottled it the night before. That was just 9 days ago. Give this beer another 2 weeks, then try it again. Beers sampled early do not have the flavor developed and do not make a good head in the glass either. Patience is the game.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

while it wasn't undrinkable, it was completely tasteless not far off fizzy water.

Those fizzy, tasteless hard seltzers are all the rage these days. Sounds like you are just keeping up with the latest trends!!

Good luck on the next batch.