So just finished my first couple of lagers and was happy with the results but not blown away. Before I take my carboy out for a diacetyl rest the flavor is phenomenal, very lager like and crisp ; however, after performing a diacetyl rest (beer has only a couple gravity points left) for a couple of days my lagers turn more ale like with fruity esters being given off. These don't go away with long periods of lagering either. Is there any way to avoid these? Should I rack to secondary first and then perform a diacetyl rest? Whats everyone's fermentation process when fermenting a lager? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Loosing Lager flavor after diacetyl rest???
- Thread starter Walfy10
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I taste the beer as it is fermenting and conduct a d-rest only when I actually taste diacetyl, which is rare, maybe 1 batch in 20. Otherwise, I maintain lager fermentation temps throughout.
As for my fermentation schedule with lagers, I cool to a couple degrees below target, pitch, and let it ride in the fermentation cabinet to the target temp.
As for my fermentation schedule with lagers, I cool to a couple degrees below target, pitch, and let it ride in the fermentation cabinet to the target temp.
DoD_Ales
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Are you TASTING any diacetyl before the rest. If not then a rest might not be necessary. You could keep the beer at the lower fermentation temp to complete the fermentation without letting esters form.
Which lager yeast did you use? Some are known to produce some esters.
What was the temperature of the samples different? I believe esters are normally created during the beginning of fermentation a few days warmer at the end should not add that much. Maybe the esters were there before the D-rest and you only noticed because the beer was warmer.
I would definitely not move to a secondary for a D-rest.... I could see that making things worse.
I have actually went the other direction recently. When I brew lagers, I now use kegs as the fermenter. I brew 4.5-4.75 gallons to leave a bit of head space (but not as much needed as an ale). I use a CO2 disconnect with tubing into a mason jar of starsan for ferment. I ferment for about 8-10 days. A that point, I put a spunding valve on the keg, take it out to room temp for a couple days and then back into the fermentation chamber where I go down 5 degrees per day to 35 or so. I then just leave it there until 4-5 weeks (still on the yeast). This really seems to allow for a cleaner flavor and lets the yeast do its thing a little longer and clean stuff up. around week 4-5 I jump it from the fermentation keg to a serving keg. I add gelatin at this point if needed. Sometimes it is not.
I have had the same problem you mention where a lager kind of goes from really good to really mediocre from 10-20 days or so. I have done this a few times and really like the results so far.
I have actually went the other direction recently. When I brew lagers, I now use kegs as the fermenter. I brew 4.5-4.75 gallons to leave a bit of head space (but not as much needed as an ale). I use a CO2 disconnect with tubing into a mason jar of starsan for ferment. I ferment for about 8-10 days. A that point, I put a spunding valve on the keg, take it out to room temp for a couple days and then back into the fermentation chamber where I go down 5 degrees per day to 35 or so. I then just leave it there until 4-5 weeks (still on the yeast). This really seems to allow for a cleaner flavor and lets the yeast do its thing a little longer and clean stuff up. around week 4-5 I jump it from the fermentation keg to a serving keg. I add gelatin at this point if needed. Sometimes it is not.
I have had the same problem you mention where a lager kind of goes from really good to really mediocre from 10-20 days or so. I have done this a few times and really like the results so far.
Which yeast, and what was your fermentation temp? Temp of your DR, and how long did you maintain the DR - you mention "couple," so I presume, 2 days? Temp post-DR?
Since you don't notice ester production prior to the DR, for me that rules out insufficient oxygenation at pitching or elevated temps during primary. My mind goes elevated temps during the DR.
I actually do a DR with every lager. Because it's not only diacetyl, but diacetyl precursor that you are wanting to get rid of - it will show up later as diacetyl and you definitely don't want that in any lager, at least none I can think of.
Since you don't notice ester production prior to the DR, for me that rules out insufficient oxygenation at pitching or elevated temps during primary. My mind goes elevated temps during the DR.
I actually do a DR with every lager. Because it's not only diacetyl, but diacetyl precursor that you are wanting to get rid of - it will show up later as diacetyl and you definitely don't want that in any lager, at least none I can think of.
Again, why? Taste it. If you taste diacetyl then do a d-rest but if your don't then don't.
Obviously, we all do what we want. For me: You can't taste acetolactate, a diacetyl precursor. So if you crash without a DR, because you don't taste diacetyl, you've taken the only chance you have to rid your lager of this precursor, and you up the risk of diacetyl in your finished beer.
I'm not much of a fan of diacetyl in any ales, though respect the ales that deliberately include some diacetyl quality with the rest of their profile. It's a choice. I find diacetyl especially nasty in lagers, so yes, as for me, my lagers all get the rest.
I'm not much of a fan of diacetyl in any ales, though respect the ales that deliberately include some diacetyl quality with the rest of their profile. It's a choice. I find diacetyl especially nasty in lagers, so yes, as for me, my lagers all get the rest.
eRicphtgr
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no not again. I start the fermentation on August 28, so I am planning to do D-rest by Sep 8, planning to do it for 3 days and see what's the outcome.
No diacetyl before the rest I think I might try letting it go to completion at lager fermentation temps and forego the rest.
So I used Octoberfest Wyeast lager blend and for the rest took out my carboy from my lagering fridge where it was at 48F and left it at room temp for two days and final temp was 65F. Tasted the beer at this point and got a little more fruity flavor than I would have liked but proceeded to crash it down to 32F by putting it back into my lagering fridge.
That makes sense since the beer was sampled at a cooler temperature and I did't notice fruity esters until it was sampled warm. I'll have to take that into consideration
I used to use the wyeast kolsch yeast and the warm samples always had a slight but noticeable welches grape juice like flavor. Once chilled and served it would be gone. Never warmed it up again to see if it would come back.
