Looking to get into all grain

[Travis H]

i have been doing some homework reading and studying. I am looking to start putting an all grain system together. My question or at least looking for some input is should I do I setup for 5 gallons or should I just start out with a 10 gallon system.

Thanks in advance for the input

 

[grampamark]

I think your choice should be based on how often you will actually brew 10 gallon batches. If you will regularly drink/spill/give away 10 gallons a month then a 10 gallon system makes sense. If you drink a 6 pack a week, and rarely entertain, there probably isn't any good reason for the larger system unless you really want to go big in the beginning "just in case".

Assuming equipment of equal quality the larger system will probably end up costing around 50% more than a 5 gallon setup. While you can brew smaller batches on a larger system, if you are rarely going to use the extra capacity, the additional cost would pay for a lot of ingredients, upgrades, shiny objects, etc. You have to make the want vs need decision before you proceed. Good luck.

 

[madscientist451]

You don't need a "system". A kettle and a BIAB bag is all you need. Having an extra food grade bucket helps. You can add a 5 gallon round cooler and a spigot for about $50.
Unless you have unlimited money, spend the bare minimum to make your wort. Invest in a chest freezer for temperature controlled fermentation and some kegs.
Bottling a 10 gallon batch is a PITA and cleaning and storing a large "system" is another PITA.
Brewing smaller batches gives you more variety and more experience.
If you keep your brewing simple, the more likely you'll want to brew.
You can upgrade your wort making equipment later.

 

[myndflyte]

My suggestion would also be BIAB. But I'd say get at least a 10 gallon round cooler to mash in. But I found BIAB more enjoyable, way easier, and I'm getting great efficiencies and making good beer.

 

[grampamark]

If you're going to have lunch, you can choose between eating with a knife, fork and spoon or just using your fingers. As tools, equipment and methods, used to facilitate the process of feeding yourself, either choice could be defined as a system.

The OP asked about size, not specific tools, equipment or methods. Just sayin'.

 

[Soulshine2]

i have been doing some homework reading and studying. I am looking to start putting an all grain system together. My question or at least looking for some input is should I do I setup for 5 gallons or should I just start out with a 10 gallon system.

Thanks in advance for the input

IF you think you'll EVER be brewing a 10 gallon batch , go buy those supplies . You can always brew a 5 gallon batch in a 10 gallon system but not the other way around.

 

[mongoose33]

A 10-gallon kettle, a BIAB bag, and you're all-grain for 5-gallon batches. Hard to get things to be cheaper. To do a 10-gallon batch you'll need a 20-gallon kettle (might get away with 18, but 20 makes more sense).

The only other issue is having something with which to hoist the bag. I brew in my garage, used an eye-hook in the ceiling for this, plus a pulley setup. You can get that from Wilserbag.

I applaud you for thinking ahead on this--i think of all the money I could have saved had i realized where I'd end up in brewing. Except....that is very hard to do, at least it was in my case, as I needed to go through each stage to realize I wanted to up my game to the next level.

 

[LittleRiver]

I think a 15gal kettle is the sweet spot for what the OP is describing. It'll work great for 5gal batches (including full volume BIAB), with no worries of boilovers. It'll also do 10gal batches (in those you'll probably want to mash with part of your water, and sparge with the rest).

I started out BIAB with a 15gal kettle, and it's proven to be one of my best decisions.

 

[Morrey]

I applaud you for thinking ahead on this--i think of all the money I could have saved had i realized where I'd end up in brewing.

As Mongoose33 said - it is very hard to project ahead to know what your needs will be in a year or so. I originally thought I'd stick to 5G batches and all is settled. Within a year, I was doing 10G batches with my point being - buy equipment to satisfy your current brewing demands but with an eye for future growth.

It would have made sense to buy a 20G kettle from the get-go, but I didn't see it this way at the beginning and bought a 10G kettle. Point of story is I now have a 10G and a 20G kettle and have spent double. Think about where you are today with the idea you may want to have the equipment to go larger in the future....and you'll be covered.

 

[wepeeler]

Buy a bigger kettle than you think you need, and start with BIAB. I've done 11 gallon batches in a 15 gallon kettle with BIAB and fermcap. It's great to have the ability to brew 5-11 gallon batches. Plus you only need 1 vessel for mash and boil.

 

[McKnuckle]

I know it's crazy to contradict the "bigger is better" mantra, but some of us started at one volume and got smaller over time. I brew 2-3 gallons exclusively now, and everything in my system from kettle to keg is sized accordingly.

I started out with 5 gallons too. But I'm the only regular drinker in the house. I prefer variety to quantity. And I enjoy the activity of brewing so it's fun to do it more often. Plus everything is easier to store and move and clean when it's smaller.

Joking aside, this may be totally irrelevant for the OP, but I mention it to provide another perspective.

 

[kevin58]

A 10-gallon kettle, a BIAB bag, and you're all-grain for 5-gallon batches. Hard to get things to be cheaper. To do a 10-gallon batch you'll need a 20-gallon kettle (might get away with 18, but 20 makes more sense).

I've brewed many a 10 gallon batch in a 15.5 gallon keggle. Like LittleRiver said, a 15 gallon kettle would be the sweet spot for doing both 5 gallon batches and the occasional 10 gallon batch. A kettle, a bag and a heat source are all you need for BIAB. It's gonna be fun... enjoy!

 

[mongoose33]

I've brewed many a 10 gallon batch in a 15.5 gallon keggle. Like LittleRiver said, a 15 gallon kettle would be the sweet spot for doing both 5 gallon batches and the occasional 10 gallon batch. A kettle, a bag and a heat source are all you need for BIAB. It's gonna be fun... enjoy!

Depends on how large a grain bill, how much water, and whether you're squeezing or not. I'd typically get 6.5 to 6.75 gallons in my 10-gallon kettle. At double that, it's 13 to 13.5 gallons in a 15-gallon pot. It's doable, but you're not that far away from a boilover. My inclination is to stay away from boilovers, so I'd be hinky with a 15-gallon kettle.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

When i built my system i went with the 10 gallon option fueled by propane. I don't regret going that size because I can brew 5 gallon batches in it or 10 gallons with a friend. Its a lot harder to try and brew 10 gallons in a 5 gallon setup
I also built a smaller less elaborate system that i can do 3 gallon or half batches on. With this I can brew inside on my stove in the winter. Smaller batches means I can brew more often.

 

[Gilbert Spinning Horse]

You also want to consider how often you will be able to put a day aside to brew. If you, like me, are restricted by time then a bigger system makes sense. Having a business to run and a 4 year old son I don't get a massive amount of time to brew. When I was doing 5 gallon batches I continually ran out of beer if I couldn't keep a rolling system going. Now I have moved up to 10 gallons I don't have to panic as soon as the fermentation chamber is free.

 

[tellyho]

I like things simple, don't drink / give away a whole lot. I spent probably $400 to put together an electric 5 gal setup. 11 gal kettle, no pumps, cooler mash tun. If BIAB had been a thing when I put it together, I'd probably be doing that. My brew day is 4 hours - a lot of which is hands off.

 

[Travis H]

Seems like a lot of people are a fan of the BIAB setups here. I have not really done much homework or reading on this process.

Are the bags reusable?

is it more of like an extract kit when brewing?

damn new ideas that keep coming in!!!! lol

Thanks for the input. this has given me some other options to take into consideration as well here.

 

[madscientist451]

Seems like a lot of people are a fan of the BIAB setups here. I have not really done much homework or reading on this process.

Are the bags reusable?

is it more of like an extract kit when brewing?

.

Go on you tube and see how its done. Super easy, very simple. I've been brewing for years on my kitchen stove, started BIAB, went to mash tun brewing, now back to BIAB, its quicker and easier for me right now, I don't have much free time these days.
When brewing inside, I get to be in my A/C in the summer and the heat in the winter.
I don't have to drag my burner and tank out and cleaning up my inside brewing stuff is easier than cleaning out my keggle.
I have both 2.5 gallon and 5 gallon kegs, and I usually run 2.5 gallon or 4- 4.5 gallon batches.
I can ferment my 4 gallon batches in a 5 gallon carboy.
If you run full 5 gallon batches you'll need a fermenter larger than 5 gallons, maybe 6 or 6.5 gallons.
My kettle is a 7.5 gallon tall boy, but I also have 6, 4 and 3 gallon pots as well as a 15 gallon keggle.
Doing BIAB, having an extra side pot comes in handy for doing a dunk sparge, but it isn't 100% necessary.
Lots of brewers have spent big money to make their wort and they don't like hearing about how you can do it for practically nothing. Do what you think is best and what your budget allows.
If you want to spend the cash, the electric BIAB "systems" that recirculate the wort look pretty nice; expect to pay $750-$1,000 for that.
But I'll say it again, bottling is a total PITA, getting a kegging setup will make brewing much more enjoyable for you.

 

[RM-MN]

Are the bags reusable?

is it more of like an extract kit when brewing?

I bought a pair of paint strainer bags and tore a hole in the first on with only about 20 batches through it. That was about 5 or so years ago. I decided when that second bag tore I would upgrade to a better bag but so far it has held up well. I probably have over a hundred batches made with it.

It can be a lot like an extract kit if that is what you want or it can be about as complex as you want. Pick out a recipe, get the ingredients, making sure they are well milled, and start the mash. The quality of the milling will mostly determine the mash efficiency so if that matters to you make sure it is milled fine enough. Although most recipes call for an hour long mash, if the grains are milled well you can cut that a bit shorter or if they are not milled well you can compensate some by extending the mash to 90 to 120 minutes.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

BIAB is a very simple way to all grain brew. If i already didn't have a gravity/pump setup i may have gone that route. The only thing to keep in mind is that the grain bag can be extremely heavy. Consider a high ABV brew with 30+ lbs dry grain, then add water to that. When the mash is done you need a way to lift the bag, which is now considerably heavier out of the kettle. Most people use some sort of lift or pulley system for that

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I know it's crazy to contradict the "bigger is better" mantra, but some of us started at one volume and got smaller over time. I brew 2-3 gallons exclusively now, and everything in my system from kettle to keg is sized accordingly.

I started out with 5 gallons too. But I'm the only regular drinker in the house. I prefer variety to quantity. And I enjoy the activity of brewing so it's fun to do it more often. Plus everything is easier to store and move and clean when it's smaller.

Similar story here. The best thing I could have done to improve my brewing was to start brewing small batches. I still brew 5 gal batches, but I am brewing more 1 gal sampler batches, 2 and 2.5 gal batches and often splitting my 5 gal batches to play around with different ingredients, yeast or processes. It is a great way to tune in recipes.

5 gals is a good amount of beer...about 2 cases. I cannot recall the last time I purchased a craft beer in an amount larger than a 6 pack. I don't see myself wanting to brew 4 cases of the same beer. Usually about the time I am 3/4 through a 5 gal keg I am really wanting to get something else on that tap.

 

[Soulshine2]

I like things simple, don't drink / give away a whole lot. I spent probably $400 to put together an electric 5 gal setup. 11 gal kettle, no pumps, cooler mash tun. If BIAB had been a thing when I put it together, I'd probably be doing that. My brew day is 4 hours - a lot of which is hands off.

how are you brewing 5 gallon batches in 4 hrs. I'm fairly efficient in my brew day , cant seem to get it done less than 6 hrs. Not that speed is my goal...its something to do .

 

[tellyho]

Heat strike water: 20 min, 1 hour mash, batch sparge is about 30 min, 1 hour boil, cool. Clean up as I go, kettle sits with PBW for a day (or until I get to it).

I don't have patience for much longer time!

I've actually been experimenting with shorter mash and boil to compress the time frame. I think I could get it down to 3 to 3 1/2 if I really worked at it.

 

[LittleRiver]

how are you brewing 5 gallon batches in 4 hrs...

My standard 5gal brew day takes about 3:40-3:45. That's from starting to fill the kettle to everything cleaned and put away (i.e. no prior prep), with a full hour mash and a full hour boil. If I cut 15 minutes off both my mash and boil I can get close to 3:00. I'm efficient, but I don't rush. I normally brew in the morning, a lot of time is spent sitting sipping coffee.

One of the biggest time savers is using a simple rig. There's just less to setup, cleanup, and put away -- time is saved at every step. The basics of my rig are a 15gal kettle with drain valve, a propane burner, a Wilser bag, and a Thermoworks ChefAlarm thermometer.

The remote probe alarm thermometer is a time saver. I set the target temp (for example, a few degrees below strike temp) then go do something else, there's no need to monitor it. The thermometer will beep me when the water is ready.

While the mash water is heating I get organized, and weigh/crush grains. During the mash I weigh hops, etc, and get ready for the next step. I hoist the bag and let gravity drain it over the kettle during the boil. There's no need to squeeze it if you let it fully drain. During the boil I get my recirculating immersion chiller ready, and clean/sanitize the fermenter. My chilling system creates the hot & warm water I need for cleanup, so I'm ready to start cleaning just as soon as the fermenter is filled.

I enjoy the brewing process, I look forward to it, so speed for speed's sake is not my goal. If I want to have a friend over and take 4-5hrs to brew then I do that. But it's nice to know that I can do a brew in just over 3hrs, which lets me easily squeeze in an evening brew session, or one in the morning before a full day of doing something else.

 

[kevin58]

Depends on how large a grain bill, how much water, and whether you're squeezing or not. I'd typically get 6.5 to 6.75 gallons in my 10-gallon kettle. At double that, it's 13 to 13.5 gallons in a 15-gallon pot. It's doable, but you're not that far away from a boilover. My inclination is to stay away from boilovers, so I'd be hinky with a 15-gallon kettle.

I've started with nearly 14 gallons in my 15.5 gallon keggle and never had a boilover. Did some boilover? Yes. But mostly because I wasn't paying attention. If you take the proper steps to avoid them, you won't get boilover... use Fermcap-S and control your boil vigor - especially at the beginning. Also don't get distracted when your wort approaches the boiling point. You need to be right there ready to either stir, control the heat or both.

 

[mongoose33]

I've started with nearly 14 gallons in my 15.5 gallon keggle and never had a boilover. Did some boilover? Yes. But mostly because I wasn't paying attention. If you take the proper steps to avoid them, you won't get boilover... use Fermcap-S and control your boil vigor - especially at the beginning. Also don't get distracted when your wort approaches the boiling point. You need to be right there ready to either stir, control the heat or both.

I agree. But you're assuming all that works, when you can build in significant defense of boilovers just by....using a larger kettle.

I like solutions that don't have multiple points of failure, i.e., if any of those points fail, your system fails. I agree, IF you do all the things above, probably you don't have a boilover. But that means I need to A) not get distracted, B) use Fermcap, C) control boil vigor, D) be right there to be ready to either stir, control the heat, or both.

I'd rather have a system less dependent on EVERYTHING going right. But that's me, yours seems to work for you.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Biab is the way to go at least to start. Don't waste a ton of money, time and space on a big system if it's not required for your needs. Cheers