Looking at going electric rather than propane, new to electric brewing

[veazer]

I'm doing a single kettle, 1 rubbermaid cooler for HLT, 1 rubbermaid cooler for MLT all grain electric system (because as people on this forum have suggested, propane is way more expensive and annoying to use than electricity (after the initial setup...)). I have a 15 gallon blichmann kettle (G1 bought for $200) that I was going to add one of the heating elements like in Kal's system to. I'd build a full on Kal clone but I live in an apartment. Now I know I'll need an in-line manual GFCI that's 240V 30A. I'm assuming I'll plug that directly into the dryer outlet. Then I need some sort of controller with a long ass cord to get from the GFCI to outside the apartment. The controller would be an on/off plus a knob or a PID with a socket or a cord with a socket that would take the heating element's L6-30 plug.

Right? It would look like this: (dashes are wires)

Dryer Outlet (plug) -- GFCI -- (plugs) -------------allthewayoutsidelike40'------------------- controller (plug) ------- kettle

or this:

Dryer Outlet (plug) -- GFCI -- (plugs) -------------allthewayoutsidelike40'------------------- controller ------ (plugs) ------- kettle

What's the best way to go about this as an industrial engineer with access to 12/18V drills, elbow grease, and very limited electrical knowledge but a lot of respect for electricity?

I'll buy a heating element pre-assembled ($195) or heating element kit ($145) if I don't need a drill press from http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/heating-element-kits

I'll buy a GFCI for $150ish here: http://www.gfcistore.com/30-amp-inline-gfcis.html that has either a 3 prong or 4 prong dryer plug on the male end depending on the plug behind my dryer (moving in 2 weeks) and then what plug on the other side? the same one? different? L6-30?

Then I buy (or make... can I make one cheaper and not have to take another EE course at a local college?) a temperature controller like one of the following with an L6-30 output and a plug on a long ass cord that matches the female of my GFCI, right?
http://jaggerbushbrewing.com/PID-CONTROLLER-220-VOLT-6000-WATT-30-AMP_p_21.html
http://jaggerbushbrewing.com/BOIL-CONTROL-220-VOLT-6000-WATT-30-AMP_p_13.html
http://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/Electric-Kettle-Controller-269p3084.htm

I'm assuming I'd rather go PID than knob since a PID can do everything a knob can when set to manual mode, but a knob can't maintain a specific temp for a long time (other than boiling)? Is it worthwhile/safe/cheaper to make it myself? I'm assuming with a PID I'll have to add a thermometer probe to the kettle as well, so that means another hole but it's not like I'll be repurposing it for non-electric use (Not being able to make kettle corn or deep fry things with electric brew kettles seems like the only downside). Also I'd be doing this outside, so are those controllers capable of outside/possibly getting wet use?

EDIT: Also aside from the plugs needed for the GFCI and the control box, does it matter if the dryer outlet is 3 pronged or 4? I get that one has a neutral/ground wire and the other has them separated, but does that matter for this use case?

 

[SilverZero]

Your best start would be to read through Kal's website:

www.theelectricbrewery.com

It's a wealth of information and should get you thinking along the right lines. If you're using really long runs of 40' regardless, I'd say it's better to do so with the main power line instead of the element cords, temperature probes, and pump power cords all bundled up over that distance.

You want 4 prongs so you can run a neutral line and a ground line in addition to the two hot lines. That way you can incorporate 120v components into the control panel.

A $150 GFCI is a lot more expensive than a $60 spa panel, so you might want to consider that as well.

I built my electric brewery with a full control panel, 3 PIDs, 2 pumps, and 3 20-gallon kettles for way less than I expected. I never added it all up, but I'd be surprised if it was over $1,000 total. I spread it out over a few months of getting pieces, so it seemed really cheap.

Another thought is to look at the Hosehead / Elsinore systems that have been emerging. I was halfway through my build when that came out or else I might have gone that route.

 

[veazer]

You want 4 prongs so you can run a neutral line and a ground line in addition to the two hot lines. You can run a neutral line and a ground line in addition to the two hot lines. That way you can incorporate 120v components into the control panel.

A $150 GFCI is a lot more expensive than a $60 spa panel, so you might want to consider that as well.

Yeah I'm renting though so I can't do an outdoor panel or rewire anything, plus I want it to be portable and all that jazz. I'm not sure whether my new apartment has a 3 prong or a 4 prong dryer outlet yet, as I couldn't pull it out to check when I took a tour. All I'm looking to do right now is build an electric kettle with some sort of control device, not a full-on Kal clone with pumps and whatnot. Can I use a PID in a control panel like one of the ones I linked if I'm using a 3 prong outlet or will they only work with a 4 prong? If I ever buy a house I'll do it the right way when I build a HERMS/RIMS setup with a multi-purpose control panel and pumps, but for now I'm just trying to see if an electric brew kettle will be more economical than buying a burner and using propane.

If you're using really long runs of 40' regardless, I'd say it's better to do so with the main power line instead of the element cords, temperature probes, and pump power cords all bundled up over that distance.

That's what I was thinking. Plus then I can have the controller close to the kettle.

 

[Tricky78]

You should look into an induction burner. If you already have a kettle and a mash tun, all you need is a $150ish induction burner (IC3500) and probably an adapter for the plug to fit either a dryer or range plug.

It's MUCH cheaper and good for apartments.

IF you do smaller than 5 gallon batches you can probably just get an 1800 watt that plugs into a regular outlet.

Too easy.

 

[applescrap]

I kind of did similar. You can find it under Bernards build or something like that. Right now I'm using a small cord that was just a start, but heck you could go around the house with the right cord. The cord will be pricey. I used jagger bush.

 

[veazer]

You should look into an induction burner. If you already have a kettle and a mash tun, all you need is a $150ish induction burner (IC3500) and probably an adapter for the plug to fit either a dryer or range plug.

It's MUCH cheaper and good for apartments.

IF you do smaller than 5 gallon batches you can probably just get an 1800 watt that plugs into a regular outlet.

Too easy.

I want it to be able to boil 13-14 gallons. Would an induction burner be able to do that?

 

[doug293cz]

...
I'm assuming I'd rather go PID than knob since a PID can do everything a knob can when set to manual mode, but a knob can't maintain a specific temp for a long time (other than boiling)? Is it worthwhile/safe/cheaper to make it myself? I'm assuming with a PID I'll have to add a thermometer probe to the kettle as well, so that means another hole but it's not like I'll be repurposing it for non-electric use (Not being able to make kettle corn or deep fry things with electric brew kettles seems like the only downside). Also I'd be doing this outside, so are those controllers capable of outside/possibly getting wet use?

EDIT: Also aside from the plugs needed for the GFCI and the control box, does it matter if the dryer outlet is 3 pronged or 4? I get that one has a neutral/ground wire and the other has them separated, but does that matter for this use case?

Here is a simple design that will work from a three wire (H-H-G) 240V outlet. I uses the Auber DSPR110 that has a temp hold function, like a PID, but uses a different (non-PID) algorithm. It also has a boil control mode, that is knob adjustable, to set boil power from 1% - 100%. It can also be used with a four wire feed, by just not wiring the neutral. Obviously, without a neutral, you cannot run any 120V devices from the panel.



Brew on

 

[Tricky78]

You would have to insulate the kettle. I know people have done 12 gallons. I have done 7.5 easily with the 3500 watt. Do a search on the Avantco IC3500 induction burner on here. Give it a read and see if it suits your purposes.

But it is probably one of the cheapest ways to make beer inside.

 

[applescrap]

Yeah I like the idea of an induction burner to. I could have gone that route. I don't think it Heats like my 5500 watt submerged element, but this stuff is touchy and I wouldn't want to get it wet. it just seems an accident waiting to happen. If you don't mind a little slower an induction burner, I think is a good option. Also looking back I thought once I had paid to install the plug I might as well go all in and I was planning on maybe recirculating. But I would think you would save money with induction as well (no pid, cords,plugs,element,probes,etc.). Kind of wish I would have given propane a try to tell you the truth. The burners seem durable and are easy to use. Now I remember I didn't have an induction pot either so if you don't you will need one, I think the test is a magnet sticking to it. Finally I was considering doing 10 gallon full volume biab and not sure induction will do that. I hope I helped

 

[veazer]

But it is probably one of the cheapest ways to make beer inside.

If I could only ventilate that...

 

[veazer]

Here is a simple design that will work from a three wire (H-H-G) 240V outlet. I uses the Auber DSPR110 that has a temp hold function, like a PID, but uses a different (non-PID) algorithm. It also has a boil control mode, that is knob adjustable, to set boil power from 1% - 100%. It can also be used with a four wire feed, by just not wiring the neutral. Obviously, without a neutral, you cannot run any 120V devices from the panel.

Brew on

So do I need to ground the kettle separately or is that accomplished via the power cord?

 

[doug293cz]

So do I need to ground the kettle separately or is that accomplished via the power cord?

Depends on how the element is mounted. If you use any of the element housings from Brewhardware.com, They mount in a way that grounds the kettle using the ground connection to the element housing. But yes, there does need to be a solid ground connection to the kettle somewhere.

Brew on

 

[WScottCross]

You should look into an induction burner. If you already have a kettle and a mash tun, all you need is a $150ish induction burner (IC3500) and probably an adapter for the plug to fit either a dryer or range plug.

It's MUCH cheaper and good for apartments.

IF you do smaller than 5 gallon batches you can probably just get an 1800 watt that plugs into a regular outlet.

Too easy.

Don't induction burners require induction ready kettles? He said he has a Blichmann G1, which I've heard is not induction heating compatible.

 

[SilverZero]

If I could only ventilate that...

Box fan and an open window.

 

[Tricky78]

Don't induction burners require induction ready kettles? He said he has a Blichmann G1, which I've heard is not induction heating compatible.

Hmm I dunno. Only one way to find out! Get a cheap induction burner! Or find a friend who has one.

 

[applescrap]

Hmm I dunno. Only one way to find out! Get a cheap induction burner! Or find a friend who has one.

Or a magnet, i think!