Local brewery allows employees to smoke while brewing...

[ericbw]

I'm surprised how many people reading this seem to think it's about second hand smoke or banning smoking. It's not. Have a smoking lounge. Have smoking permitted in the bar (for customers, not servers). Smoke it up!

 

[kombat]

I'm not convinced second hand smoke is a real thing.

If it's such a real scourge, how come none of us know anyone who's died from it? No one in our personal lives, no actors, no athletes, no politicians, no one. If it's such a silent killer, why haven't we heard of anyone dying from it? Where's the "5K Fun Run" in support of the millions who've supposedly died from second-hand smoke? How come it's never listed as the cause of death?

I mean, sure, it stinks, and I don't want to stand around it, but we can ban it without all the fake histrionics and faux outrage and turning into some mythical, dangerous killer thing. Just say you don't like the smell, and you'd prefer people not smoke around you when you're at a bar/restaurant/beach. That's enough. No need to make it any more than that. Pretending it's some sort of killer epidemic when there's such weak supporting empirical evidence just hurts your credibility, and makes people want to push back just out of spite.

 

[Weezy]

An old pizza shop around here (opened in 1952) was known for haphazard pizzas. Pepperoni so roughly cut that one pizza might look like it was grated and next week the pizza might have 10 pieces of pepperoni stuck together because the pepperoni wasn't sliced through all the way.

He chain-smoked. Some ashes on your pie was like holy water sprinkled by the local bishop, and we're certain is part of the very important seasoning on the floor of the oven. People have even seen him bounce a tossed pizza off the ceiling and smash a fly into the dough while doing it. The fly doesn't get removed.

 

[ericbw]

I'm not convinced second hand smoke is a real thing.

If it's such a real scourge, how come none of us know anyone who's died from it? No one in our personal lives, no actors, no athletes, no politicians, no one. If it's such a silent killer, why haven't we heard of anyone dying from it? Where's the "5K Fun Run" in support of the millions who've supposedly died from second-hand smoke? How come it's never listed as the cause of death?

I mean, sure, it stinks, and I don't want to stand around it, but we can ban it without all the fake histrionics and faux outrage and turning into some mythical, dangerous killer thing. Just say you don't like the smell, and you'd prefer people not smoke around you when you're at a bar/restaurant/beach. That's enough. No need to make it any more than that. Pretending it's some sort of killer epidemic when there's such weak supporting empirical evidence just hurts your credibility, and makes people want to push back just out of spite.

Please cite your research. The fact that you don't know anyone who has died from it is just anecdotal.

These are just from the CDC and NIH, so it must be a hoax:

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/health_effects/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3477960/

 

[kombat]

We can all name family members, celebrities, athletes, politicians, whatever, who have died from cancer, car crashes, plane crashes, shootings, kidney failure, drug overdoses, whatever. And yet I can't come up with a single name of anyone who would have lived, had it not been for second-hand smoke. That's all I'm saying.

If it's really such a scourge, where are all the victims?

 

[ericbw]

I know people with HIV but no one that has died. Must be a hoax?

 

[Mainer]

I'm just gonna go unfollow this thread now.

 

[Baabaadoo]

Same

 

[VApatriot]

Here's my question. If a guy was smoking near the mash tun in that brew pub and you never saw him doing it, would you be able to tell from the beer?

Now, I am a smoker and I thing it definitely wrong for a worker to smoke near a process for any consumable item beer, food, whatever. The bottom line is if you see something you don't like in an establishment you're not obligated to return and buy from them. Ever go into a restaurant and see a cockroach running around? If you did would you really go back?

Last point. This is not new news, some people smoke, some people don't, those that don't hate the smoke, we get it. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[ericbw]

Again. Not about smoking per se. The rule is about handwashing after smoking or eating or going to the bathroom. Touching your mouth or other things, and then touching food you're preparing.

It's not just about what affects me, but also the potential to affect other customers. We should all look out for others.

 

[Brownalemikie]

Do the workers touch their mouths and then touch a food product that I'm going to eat? Then you're right - I'd be concerned.

Or do you mean because it's emulsifying animal flesh from all parts of the animal, and that's gross? Or is it because slaughter is gross by itself?

Surely they are concerned with sanitation in a hot dog factory. I'm not talking about gross.

Full disclosure: I'm a non-smoker and don't care to be around cigarette smoke. But to me, it's really wussification when people are concerned about what goes on in a brew house behind a glass wall. Sure, it doesn't look good....but really, do you think smoking around beer in sealed containers will effect the quality of their beer?

If their beer is good, I'd have no problem going there repeatedly.

Btw, I still standby my comment....if you ever see how a hotdog is made, you'll never eat them again

 

[day_trippr]

Pretty sure it's a goner already...

 

[brandonlovesbeer]

Fair enough​, but let's be realistic. From what I'm gathering it's a small Brewer with a couple guys who probably had a few beers in them.

Pretty sure the guys aren't top paid guys, not so much an excuse as it is a chance for the brewer to remedy the situation.

A couple of beers? Most brewery workers are allowed to drink pretty much all they want.
There were some days where my co workers were stumbling out the door at the end of the day.

And regarding the pay?
Ha. Laughable.
The highest paid guy at our brewery was the brew master and made a laughable salary of about $29,000-$30,000. That's less than a teacher makes.
And he was on call 24/7. Everyone else except for the packaging supervisor was paid $10/hr. With a very firm "No raise" policy from the owner.

 

[Yesfan]

So, what is the name of this mystery brewery in Memphis? Will that ever be revealed in this thread?

 

[Calichusetts]

So, what is the name of this mystery brewery in Memphis? Will that ever be revealed in this thread?

Smokey McSmokeface brewing company.

 

[ericbw]

Butt & Ash Brewery. The beer they were making was an I pee-pee A.

 

[ericbw]

Full disclosure: I'm a non-smoker and don't care to be around cigarette smoke. But to me, it's really wussification when people are concerned about what goes on in a brew house behind a glass wall. Sure, it doesn't look good....but really, do you think smoking around beer in sealed containers will effect the quality of their beer?

If their beer is good, I'd have no problem going there repeatedly.

Btw, I still standby my comment....if you ever see how a hotdog is made, you'll never eat them again

I've seen how hot dogs are made. It's gross, but I try not to think about it. Are we talking about gross or unsanitary?

Do the hot dog makers wash their hands after touching their mouths. No one has answered that.

Who said it was around sealed containers?

It's not about smoking. It's about washing your hands after eating, smoking, or going to the bathroom. If they are smoking without touching it, I have no problem.

 

[Brownalemikie]

I've seen how hot dogs are made. It's gross, but I try not to think about it. Are we talking about gross or unsanitary?

Do the hot dog makers wash their hands after touching their mouths. No one has answered that.

Who said it was around sealed containers?

It's not about smoking. It's about washing your hands after eating, smoking, or going to the bathroom. If they are smoking without touching it, I have no problem.

The word "wussification" keeps coming to mind. Btw, when your friends and family drink your home brew, how do they know you washed your hands before brewing? Anyways, I'm bored with this topic....hope you win the argument. Happy Brewing!

 

[Yesfan]

Butt & Ash Brewery. The beer they were making was an I pee-pee A.

With all the cig talk, I figured it was a smoked pooter they were making.


Tobacco Spit Imperial Stout?
2nd Hand Smoked Helles?

What about a Marlboro Maibock?
Winston's Whitbier?
Kool Kolsch?

Man, this is too easy.....


Belgian Strong with candi syrup cigarettes?
Copenhagen Cascadian Dark Ale?
Smoking Gun Graff?
Red Man's Red....man.
Lucky Stripe Lambic
Pall Mall Pale Ale
Dutch Masters' Doppelbock

This mystery brewery, whoever they are, is really missing out here! :fro:

 

[z-bob]

"You should see how I make donuts!" :fro:

 

[lschiavo]

The word "wussification" keeps coming to mind. Btw, when your friends and family drink your home brew, how do they know you washed your hands before brewing? Anyways, I'm bored with this topic....hope you win the argument. Happy Brewing!

I forgot to mention that the guys in my earlier post are the brewers at Wussy Brewing.

Here is a customer:

The beer is fed in through the tube.

You can smoke in the suit.

 

[passedpawn]

"You should see how I make donuts!" :fro:

Boooooo! (haha)

 

[RevKev]

Kinda sad that this thread that was an open discussion about a morally gray area has come to name calling. How old are we?

 

[treacheroustexan]

I just want to chime in and say something. For us homebrewers, smoking, cooking, not washing hands, etc. might not seem like a big deal while brewing. For a professional brewery serving customers, it is. For example, I am working on a project at work with a certain micro brewery I am unable to name right now (I work in R&D). In order for us to even ship product to their facility, we have certain food safety regulations we need to follow. The product we are shipping to the brewery won't even make contact with any customers, but we need to follow the same guidelines as them to eliminate the risk of contaminating their facility and bottling line. It might not directly harm the beer itself, but you're still contaminating the facility... that's why every restaurant/brewery/manufacturer has procedures in place to eliminate that risk. This brewery is clearing not following any procedures to take care of their customers.

 

[ericbw]

Kinda sad that this thread that was an open discussion about a morally gray area has come to name calling. How old are we?

Agreed. We need to start a separate name calling thread

 

[kombat]

I know people with HIV but no one that has died.

Of course you do: Rock Hudson, Freddy Mercury, Arthur Ashe, Liberace, Isaac Asimov...

Now name one celebrity who died from second hand smoke. Just one.

You mention you know people with HIV who are still living (so do I: Magic Johnson, Charlie Sheen, Greg Louganis) - know anyone suffering (but still living) from cancer attributed to second-hand smoke?

You're making my point for me.

It stinks. I agree. But it's not the killer the left wants us to think it is. It's a justification for exerting their will on people. "I don't like the smell of smoke, so you can't smoke in this restaurant." Why don't you just avoid restaurants that allow smoking? "No. Not good enough. We're going to make it illegal so I don't have to smell it, but can still go to any restaurant I feel like."

I guess I'll just smoke on the patio then. "Not so fast..."

Seriously? Not even on an outdoor patio? The cars/trucks going by are putting worse pollutants into the air.

FWIW, I'm not a smoker. I just get annoyed at seeing one group impose their will on another, while using flimsy justification for it.

 

[Baabaadoo]

@Kombat, apparently you missed the earlier post where I debunked all your underdeveloped concerns and then some. This isn't about imposing your will on others. It's about meeting a standard that you claim to be, which is currently defined by governmental law. Read my linked post for a detailed explanation on that philosophy.

For the record, I shouldn't have to provide a link to celebrities who have died from tobacco, but I will to appeal to ignorance:

https://quitsmokingwithvivian.wordp...lebrities-who-died-of-tobacco-related-causes/
https://smokeaway.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/227-famous-people-who-died-because-they-smoked/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...rs-lung-60-day-parents-second-hand-smoke.html

Read the link CDC link in my post #111 for more information on the toxic effects of smoking.

As far as the law on banning smoking, I am philosophically not a fan of the government controlling how businesses are ran, but I hate that a this as a divider in most restaurants is going to stop any of the toxic smoke coming from the smoking sections into a non-smoking section.

 

[ericbw]

Of course you do: Rock Hudson, Freddy Mercury, Arthur Ashe, Liberace, Isaac Asimov...

Now name one celebrity who died from second hand smoke. Just one.

You mention you know people with HIV who are still living (so do I: Magic Johnson, Charlie Sheen, Greg Louganis) - know anyone suffering (but still living) from cancer attributed to second-hand smoke?

You're making my point for me.

It stinks. I agree. But it's not the killer the left wants us to think it is. It's a justification for exerting their will on people. "I don't like the smell of smoke, so you can't smoke in this restaurant." Why don't you just avoid restaurants that allow smoking? "No. Not good enough. We're going to make it illegal so I don't have to smell it, but can still go to any restaurant I feel like."

I guess I'll just smoke on the patio then. "Not so fast..."

Seriously? Not even on an outdoor patio? The cars/trucks going by are putting worse pollutants into the air.

FWIW, I'm not a smoker. I just get annoyed at seeing one group impose their will on another, while using flimsy justification for it.

OK, fair enough on the list of celebrities who have died and lived with AIDS. But you can't JUST get your information from People Magazine.

Did you read either of the links I included about secondhand smoking. You have to at least open the links.

*Obviously* it is less common than problems from smoking directly, but you think it's a leftist conspiracy?

http://breathinghappy.com/passive-smoking-killed-the-famous-entertainer/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...rs-lung-60-day-parents-second-hand-smoke.html

https://consults.blogs.nytimes.com/...-at-risk-for-lung-cancer/comment-page-4/?_r=0

But I have t mention again, employees in a food production facility smoking is different than employees in a non-food production facility. If they were working in a facility that made and packaged lawn ornaments, it wouldn't matter. But they are working in a food production operation where the rule is that you wash your hands after smoking, eating, or going to the bathroom.

The rule isn't about smoking, it's about hand washing.

 

[Baabaadoo]

It's about hygiene practices, not hand washing. Hand washing is small component of that ensemble. It's sad that I need to outline that; unless you're just trolling?

 

[kombat]

For the record, I shouldn't have to provide a link to celebrities who have died from tobacco, but I will

You're confused. I'm not saying smoking doesn't kill. I'm saying second hand smoke doesn't kill.

Yes, cigarette smoke contains lots of nasty stuff. And when you inhale it directly from the tip of a cigarette, you're getting a concentrated dose of it.

But the trace wisps of it, just floating around the air near a smoker are so low in concentration as to be virtually harmless. Sure, it stinks, but so do farts. They won't kill you.

That's my point.

 

[kombat]

You can get lung cancer without being a smoker. And the woman with COPD is also morbidly obese.

I'll concede that breathing in all that smoke certainly didn't make them any healthier. I'll even concede that it probably even contributed to their illnesses. But who are these people? A couple random, obscure stories you dug up several pages deep in a Google search? If you give me a second, I'll cherry-pick a couple of stories about people who got flesh eating disease from swimming in bacteria-ridden Mexican rivers. Does a couple of rare cases justify a blanket ban? The justification I've seen posted claimed "second hand smoke" has killed millions. But of course, it's nowhere near that.

As I've shown, it's trivially easy to come up with names of actors, athletes, politicians, or family members who've died from relatively obscure things like Parkinson's or AIDS. And yet you had to dig up a story about some woman none of us know, none of us have ever met or even heard of, a woman who was obviously otherwise very unhealthy to begin with and whose maladies may or may not be related to her mother's smoking habit, to make your point.

If it's such a scourge, where are all the victims? That's all I'm asking. I'm actually fine with banning smoking indoors, mainly for employee health workplace expectations, but when the lefties go so far as banning it in outdoor spaces (patios, parks, beaches), that's a considerable overreach, in my opinion.

 

[passedpawn]

Sure, it stinks, but so do farts. They won't kill you.

If you've had corona, you just KNOW those Mexican brewers are tooting up a storm during the boil. Man. Far more egregious than smoke IMO.

 

[Baabaadoo]

If it's such a scourge, where are all the victims? That's all I'm asking. I'm actually fine with banning smoking indoors, mainly for employee health workplace expectations, but when the lefties go so far as banning it in outdoor spaces (patios, parks, beaches), that's a considerable overreach, in my opinion.

I agree. No complaint from me here. As I said, I think the government has gone too far in many regulatory aspects, as I mentioned previously. I think businesses should be able to choose how to run, who to serve, and how they manage their products, but they should be required to publicly post those practices in many available areas.

 

[beerguyfrmsd]

Hmmmm smoking in brewhouse = Carafa addition recipe . If they want to smoke in the brewhouse that is okay with me, but I just will not buy their brew.

 

[ericbw]

It's about hygiene practices, not hand washing. Hand washing is small component of that ensemble. It's sad that I need to outline that; unless you're just trolling?

You said you were unfollowing this thread.

I'm specifically talking about 21 CFR, 117.10. Handwashing, yes, but also not eating, drinking, chewing gum, or using tobacco in an area where food is produced, packaged, utensils washed, etc.

 

[ericbw]

You can get lung cancer without being a smoker. And the woman with COPD is also morbidly obese.

I'll concede that breathing in all that smoke certainly didn't make them any healthier. I'll even concede that it probably even contributed to their illnesses. But who are these people? A couple random, obscure stories you dug up several pages deep in a Google search? If you give me a second, I'll cherry-pick a couple of stories about people who got flesh eating disease from swimming in bacteria-ridden Mexican rivers. Does a couple of rare cases justify a blanket ban? The justification I've seen posted claimed "second hand smoke" has killed millions. But of course, it's nowhere near that.

As I've shown, it's trivially easy to come up with names of actors, athletes, politicians, or family members who've died from relatively obscure things like Parkinson's or AIDS. And yet you had to dig up a story about some woman none of us know, none of us have ever met or even heard of, a woman who was obviously otherwise very unhealthy to begin with and whose maladies may or may not be related to her mother's smoking habit, to make your point.

If it's such a scourge, where are all the victims? That's all I'm asking. I'm actually fine with banning smoking indoors, mainly for employee health workplace expectations, but when the lefties go so far as banning it in outdoor spaces (patios, parks, beaches), that's a considerable overreach, in my opinion.

These were first page results. But I see that you still haven't looked at the links to the CDC or NIH articles? Just looked at the picture of the woman and came to a conclusion?

You have to look at those articles before you can intelligently say, "Where are all the victims?"

This isn't about "lefties" taking away your cigarettes. It's about sanitation in a food production facility.

 

[ericbw]

@Kombat, apparently you missed the earlier post where I debunked all your underdeveloped concerns and then some. This isn't about imposing your will on others. It's about meeting a standard that you claim to be, which is currently defined by governmental law. Read my linked post for a detailed explanation on that philosophy.

For the record, I shouldn't have to provide a link to celebrities who have died from tobacco, but I will to appeal to ignorance:

https://quitsmokingwithvivian.wordp...lebrities-who-died-of-tobacco-related-causes/
https://smokeaway.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/227-famous-people-who-died-because-they-smoked/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...rs-lung-60-day-parents-second-hand-smoke.html

Read the link CDC link in my post #111 for more information on the toxic effects of smoking.

As far as the law on banning smoking, I am philosophically not a fan of the government controlling how businesses are ran, but I hate that a this as a divider in most restaurants is going to stop any of the toxic smoke coming from the smoking sections into a non-smoking section.

It's funny how the discussion has turned to the government taking away your rights!

 

[CGVT]

OMG!!! He touched his mouth!!!!

Smoking while working in a brewery is probably against health regulations and certainly is not good for business.

If it bothers you, don't go there, call the health department, tell your neighbors, hide you wimmin and chillens, whatever.

But FFS, get over it, dude. It's not the end of the world

Lighten up, Francis. Damn.

 

[ericbw]

I agree. No complaint from me here. As I said, I think the government has gone too far in many regulatory aspects, as I mentioned previously. I think businesses should be able to choose how to run, who to serve, and how they manage their products, but they should be required to publicly post those practices in many available areas.

All of that is a slippery slope. Choosing who to serve is what we used to have in this country, separate restrooms, back of the bus, etc.

 

[ericbw]

OMG!!! He touched his mouth!!!!

Smoking while working in a brewery is probably against health regulations and certainly is not good for business.

If it bothers you, don't go there, call the health department, tell your neighbors, hide you wimmin and chillens, whatever.

But FFS, get over it, dude. It's not the end of the world

Lighten up, Francis. Damn.

You've heard of Typhoid Mary, right?

This is a discussion, so discussing it is what is happening here. If that bothers you, "get over it, dude."