Liquid vs. dry yeast in a "Big" beer

[gotbags-10]

So taking a stab at the Dark Lord clone in this months BYO. It calls for 4 packs of liquid yeast in a 3.7l starter. Two packs of 1056 and 2 packs of 1968. The pitch is a little high but I certainly understand why considering the SG of 1.169. I currently only have a 2l flask for starters and a small stir plate. I could possibly do a starter for each pack with my current setup but I really don't want to do that. That's why I'm exploring the idea of using dry yeast. So us-05 is 1056 and s-04 would be 1968's dry version equivalent. Obviously I prefer to use liquid but in this case it may not be feasible. That's why I was thinking 2 packs of us-05 and 2 of s-04. I'm hoping with the complexity of this grain bill and all the additional flavors from the coffee and dark sugars that I may mask the flavors from the dry yeast. Thanks for any help

 

[Revvy]

Personally I think the "liquid is better than dry" argument is silly, especially for basic ale strains where they're the same yeast. If it's easier and cheaper to use dry in this instance then that's what I would do. If it's a "special" yeast that's only in liquid form then I'd build up a huge starter which as much liquid as recommended.

I can gaurantee you that if you're making a big flavorful grain billed beer (and it sounds like you are) and you split the batch between the equivalent liquid and dry strains, you would not notice a huge difference in flavor profile if all else is equal.

I think it's been proven for the last 20years or so that the bias against Dry yeast is largely a hold over from prohibition times, when homebrewers had limited access to fresh and different yeast strains. Modern technology and practices for both liquid and dry strains are just as stringent.... And the technological leaps in the last few years have been extraordinary that's why were now seeing a surprising number of NEW dry strains out there including Belgian and Lager yeasts where even 10 years ago that was thought to be impossible.

science is a great thing.

Us what's the most convenient to your needs, sounds like the dry is or you wouldn't have bothered to figure it all out and even ask the question.... any biases between wet and dry these days is largely unfounded.

Enjoy what sounds like it will be a great beer.

 

[m00ps]

So us-05 is 1056 and s-04 would be 1968's dry version equivalent. p

I agree that if you are using the same strain, liquid vs dry is irrelevant. Only thing that matters is the pitch rate

But 1968 and s-04 are very different yeasts. When I used dry yeasts, s-04 would give me issues a lot of the time. After reading similar experiences on bear-flavored, I never used it again

 

[Revvy]

... After reading similar experiences on bear-flavored, I never used it again

You're making Bear flavored beer? That's gotta be as awesome as bacon beer would be. :rockin:

(Sorry just couldn't resist.)

 

[gotbags-10]

I've also heard of some people having flavor issues as well with s-04. Funny thing is I've used it plenty of times with no issues. Mainly in the zombie dust clone. Which is also another beer that calls for either 1968 or s-04. This is such an epic/expensive brew I don't want to screw it up. So maybe I just use us-05 and do two starters of 1968. Unless anyone knows of another dry English pub yeast?

 

[biestie]

I have 2L flasks as well for starters. If one of those isn't sufficient I use dry and I don't ever feel like I compromised.

 

[blizz81]

I would take an extra one-month insurance policy out on my house if I brewed a 1.169 beer and threw a bunch of S-04 at it. The surrounding block may not be saved from the explosion...

 

[ten80]

Agreed with Revvy. I have used US-05 in beers over 10% and have never had an issue with attenuation or off-flavors. I make a starter when necessary to attain the correct pitch rate.

I've used US-04 on 4-5 brews with no off-flavor issues.

There are a couple dry English yeast strains made by Danstar including Nottingham, Windsor, and Cask Ale but I have only tried their Belle Saison variety (with good success).

 

[ten80]

I would take an extra one-month insurance policy out on my house if I brewed a 1.169 beer and threw a bunch of S-04 at it. The surrounding block may not be saved from the explosion...

Amen. I start mine on the cold side around 58F and ramp up to 75F over the course of about 2 weeks to avoid having to clean krausen off of my ceiling. US-05 is also quite "vigorous."

 

[blizz81]

Amen. I start mine on the cold side around 58F and ramp up to 75F over the course of about 2 weeks to avoid having to clean krausen off of my ceiling. US-05 is also quite "vigorous."

I just had to use S-04 in a pinch on a 1.075 stout this week. Pitched at 55*F, had chamber set at 60*F, still was spewing pretty good out the carboy for a number of hours two days after pitch.


It's a beer I normally use a liquid irish ale yeast in (forget which, some WLP) that's pretty docile in comparison. Have stepped that same recipe up to 24.5lbs / 1.120-something I think - with the same yeast...lots of headspace, fermcap, set a few degrees colder than normal (I think that one was 62*F)...it still blew out pretty aggressively. Just imagining the difference with that yeast as it would apply to S-04 and 1.169...ha.

 

[gotbags-10]

Yeah I figured I would have a pretty violent fermemt either way I go. Going to do a 5.5g batch in my 14g conical so hopefully that contains it.

 

[hanuswalrus]

I've used S-04 once and it turned out well in a rye stout. Key is to keep it low around 60-62 for at least the first 3-4 days.

 

[ten80]

I just had to use S-04 in a pinch on a 1.075 stout this week. Pitched at 55*F, had chamber set at 60*F, still was spewing pretty good out the carboy for a number of hours two days after pitch.

Run the blow-off tube into a second beer and watch that beer start fermenting in minutes... literally. Talk about pitching some super active yeast! transfer of active krausen is a also good way to re-start a stuck high-gravity fermentation.

 

[wilserbrewer]

So taking a stab at the Dark Lord clone in this months BYO. It calls for 4 packs of liquid yeast in a 3.7l starter. Two packs of 1056 and 2 packs of 1968.

OMG that's a lot of yeast! 4 packs of liquid yeast is like $30? Could one just make a several gallons of "small" beer and repitch the yeast cake? Making a starter that big I'd be inclined to want to drink it