Let's play in the water!

[Vintage Iron]

I'm hoping someone here with more knowledge would be willing to help me decode what I should do with this water profile. I understand that one size does not fit all with regards to brewing different beer styles, but what is a good start for getting this water in the ballpark for a generic blonde ale as well as an IPA?

After having issues with no head on my beers (kegged) i cut the water with 50% RO water and that helped a bunch. Shortly after trying that change, I got a Ph meter and have been using acid to drop the Ph of my mash, but the problem is that mash Ph is starting in the upper-6's and only gets to the upper 5's (5.75) with 6ml lactic acid. (I don't want to use any more acid than that because I can taste it if it gets to 10ml in a 5gal batch)

Lately, a good friend suggested I use some gypsum, especially for my IPAs, and that does seem correct based on the research I've done. Rather than guessing, I figured I'd ask someone who knows. What do you see that needs to be addressed? This is all very greek to me, so any insight is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[bracconiere]

(I don't want to use any more acid than that because I can taste it if it gets to 10ml in a 5gal batch)

i've heard phosphoric acid is tasteless....

 

[day_trippr]

Well...phosphates are intrinsic to mashed grains and I expect that allows some perception headroom to additional phosphates provoked by the use of phosphoric acid. That said, I once had a batch that I used an excessive amount of PA and swear it made a character difference - and not for the better. I don't want to say it approached excessive use of lactic acid but it was in the same character defect realm.

fwiw, my artesian well water TDS and alkalinity are only modestly lower that the OPs. I invested in a 100 gpd RO system and never looked back...

Cheers!

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

It looks like you would need to add ~7.2 mL of 85% Phosphoric Acid, or alternately add ~9.3 mL of 88% Lactic Acid to each 5 gallons in order to hit ~5.5 pH and in so doing, bring your alkalinity down to ~37 ppm (mg/L).

 

[mabrungard]

That water has a huge amount of temporary hardness. Pre-boiling is would drop a bunch of chalk, but it won’t reduce that somewhat high magnesium content. A bit of dilution is a good approach.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

It looks like boiling would only get his alkalinity down to about 148 ppm, while reducing his calcium down to about 12 ppm also. If his calcium was close to 115 ppm he could get alkalinity down to about 65 ppm via boiling. After that its pretty much game over for alkalinity reduction.

To wind up with ~65 ppm alkalinity and ~81 ppm calcium his pre-boil calcium level would need to be around 183 ppm.

Plus boiling is very energy intensive. $$$

 

[Vintage Iron]

Thanks so much for the thoughts. It sounds like I should continue with my 50/50 mix of RO water with my own.

I've tried pre-boiling, and there is a ton of precipitate when I do that, but it's kind of a pain because I do a single vessel brew day, so I'd have to boil, pull the water out of the kettle, clean out the precipitate, then refill the mash kettle. Not to mention it's pretty inefficient from an energy usage stand point.

Maybe I should experiment with some Phosphoric Acid since I can taste the lactic acid. Thoughts?

Should I add gypsum to get the sulfate levels up when brewing an IPA, or is that a no-no with as much hardness that is already in this water?

Thanks again!

 

[doug293cz]

I would take @day_trippr 's advice, and get your own RO system. Start with 100% RO and add minerals as needed.

Brew on

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Your SO4 is initially 24 ppm due to Ward Labs telling you that sulfur derived from SO4 is 8 ppm. SO4-S means sulfur derived from sulfate. It does not mean SO4. Farmers only want to know 'S' and could care less about SO4. And Ward Labs caters primarily to farmers.

In my opinion, for a West Coast IPA you should try to get sulfate up to about 150 ppm and chloride up to about 75 ppm. Whatever you do, don't add any Epsom Salt.

 

[Vintage Iron]

I would take @day_trippr 's advice, and get your own RO system. Start with 100% RO and add minerals as needed.

Yeah, that is probably the best idea given the crappy make up of my water. Has anyone developed a simple spreadsheet type guide that says what needs to be added to 100% RO water for the different beer styles? Something like this:

IPA: Add X, Y, and Z
Stout: Add S, T, and Z
Light Ale: Add X

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Yeah, that is probably the best idea given the crappy make up of my water. Has anyone developed a simple spreadsheet type guide that says what needs to be added to 100% RO water for the different beer styles? Something like this:

IPA: Add X, Y, and Z
Stout: Add S, T, and Z
Light Ale: Add X

I have.

 

[bracconiere]

' and could care less about SO4.

lol, just going to crack a funny...does that mean they care about SO4? :ribjab: (if it's not an emoji it should be....)

 

[6Tap]

I have.

Please refer to Brew Your Own Magazine, March-April 2020 issue page #50, Brewing with Reverse Osmosis water. Would tell you but I’m just stating to read the article now. [emoji482]

 

[bracconiere]

on an off note, could try this...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ecoone-Eco...035528?hash=item1a6031f188:g:itMAAOSw3utY6mzN

definitely be cheaper then a RO system....(it's what i use)

 

[Robert65]

on an off note, could try this...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ecoone-Eco...035528?hash=item1a6031f188:g:itMAAOSw3utY6mzN

definitely be cheaper then a RO system....(it's what i use)

That will make water safer to drink, but will not make it any more suitable for brewing.

+1 for builing from the ground up with an RO system.

 

[bracconiere]

https://nuaquasystems.com/products/...stage-100gpd-ro-system?variant=15426278359089

didn't realize they were that cheap.....does seem like at 100GPD, it'd take a while to fill my kettle though....

 

[doug293cz]

https://nuaquasystems.com/products/...stage-100gpd-ro-system?variant=15426278359089

didn't realize they were that cheap.....does seem like at 100GPD, it'd take a while to fill my kettle though....

Just start collecting your water the day before you brew. Just get something like a 20 gal HDPE container, and you can collect more than you need for a brew day.

Brew on

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, my typical batch requires ~8 gallons of strike water, and it takes a little over 11 gallons to fully cover the hex in my hlt.
My 100 gpd RO system will crank out 20 gallons in 5 hours, so I fire it up the afternoon before brew days and fill the kettles directly...

Cheers!

 

[Robert65]

My system is rated at 90 GPD which seems about right. Puts out a gallon in just over 15 minutes. I run my water any time I have some time and keep it stocked up; it's not as though it will go bad waiting to brew.

It should be noted that any system will see a significant improvement in both speed and rejection efficiency (how much of the dissolved solids it removes) with increased differential pressure between feed and output: therefore, DO NOT use a bladder tank (which provides back pressure) in your system; collect your permeate directly in an open bucket or jug.