Leap Year 2012?

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WIMARIPA said:
Missed the previous post, would you really leave it on the nibs for a year? That seems like a long time to me but as I said I've never used the nibs before.
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I dunno. Just everything I've read says that the cocoa has oils that take a long time to break down if you want to get the "full effect" / flavor of the chocolate. I'm assuming that nibs are probably more complex than powder in this case, probably taking longer.

But again, no experience. Just basing it off of what I've read.
 
WineIsRed said:
I've always used cocoa powder, but agree that it does make a mess and is difficult to mix. I have heard that nibs do a good job of imparting chocolate aroma, but aren't nearly as good at imparting flavor as powder.
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hey, that's good to know. would you recommend adding it in primary or secondary? And about how long do you leave it on the powder / lees?
 
BoxMan said:
hey, that's good to know. would you recommend adding it in primary or secondary? And about how long do you leave it on the powder / lees?
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I've used it mostly in primary, and then added a little more in secondary, but I think that was a mistake. You'll lose a great deal of all the chocolatey goodness during active fermentation (especially if degassing during SNA, and using a robust yeast like ec-1118).

I'm not sure about the cocoa powder vs. nibs difference in flavor and aroma, but I have read it a few places. I think it might just come down to time – cocoa powder has vastly more surface area than nibs, so maybe it would just take nibs more time to impart the same level of flavor??

In my batches, I put 1 – 1.5 pounds of cocoa powder in primary (6gal batch) and I left it there for 1 – 3 months. There was an enormous amount of sediment, and I had to top off with a large amount of water. I'm thinking that it might be better to use a smaller amount of powder in primary (maybe 0.5lb after SNA is done), and then after 3 months racking on top of a pound of nibs in secondary to sit for a year.

All this relates to a “normal” chocolate mead. I've never made a bochet, and I have no idea if this would change anything. Given that the caramelized honey has a different flavor profile, maybe it would be better to use less chocolate? Maybe more? I dunno.
 
For those thinking of doing a bochet for the first time, there's good info in this thread, and also this one (has some good pics). There's some other threads that deal with bochet too, but these are probably the best ones.

Also this thread from my 'other board' has some info on using the burnt honey in a beer, along with general bochet info.

EDIT: another good thread that has a link to a video of the process, and some more pics
 
What I plan on doing is blending my previous bochet recipe and my cocoa mead recipe.

The bochet used 18 lbs honey, and the cocoa, 15 lbs. I think I'll stick with the 18 lbs; the amount of residual sweeteness seemed just right to me, and I think will complement the cocoa well, and I hopefully won't even have to backsweeten (although I'll do so if necessary...)

The cocoa mead recipe was this one, and I scaled it up to 6 gal, so I used 20 oz of regular Hershey's unsweetened cocoa powder. This was added right at the start...I heated up some of the water needed, and dissolved the powder, which was *much* easier with hot water as compared to cold. I then added the honey, and cooled to pitching temps, and brought water up to the full 6 gal batch size.

I think in this case I will boil the honey first as I did with my prior bochet, then once I have it partially cooled down and have added some of the water, I will add the cocoa, then continue to cool/bring up to volume.

Yeast: I am a big fan of the Wyeast 4632 Dry Mead strain...I used it for both of these meads, and will use it for the Cocobochet. I'll make a 1/2 gal starter and get my pitch rate up a bit first...

With the cocoa in primary like this, it is a bit messy, so if you try this, use a blow off tube. Also be prepared for a fair bit of lees after the primary ferment...a mix of yeast and cocoa solids. One of the reasons for my using 6 gal batches is so I can rack from 6 gal down to 5, and have a bottle or two extra for topping off later if I rack again.

When I did the cocoa before, I had to rack a couple times before it was clear, and actually ended up using finings *twice* to get it to clear...ultimately it is crystal clear, and a nice deep golden color (of course the bochet version will be much darker...)

I'll be curious to hear from others that do the cocoa nibs in secondary as to whether or not they get an adequate cocoa presence...I know there's *plenty* there using this technique!
 
I recon i will put some of the nibs in primary, maybe a third of the total and crushed slightly, then when the yeast has dropped out go to secondary on the remaining amount. May have to book some of the day off work for this one...
 
So the Chocolate Bochet is the mead of choice for the leap year mead?

My first meads are just fermenting (well..at least one of them is, I have another thread about that though). :p

The thought of a leap year mead is interesting. I suppose I'm in if I can get the materials. Is there any movement towards a specific recipe? I only skimmed over the five pages and didn't see a recipe posted. I'd be doing a 1 gallon batch as that's the only size of carboy I have open. (4 1-gal glass amber carboys and 1 5-gal clear glass carboy...considering getting myself a 5-g better bottle already...)

Just throwing it out there, what about adding a unique paring to the chocolate flavor to give the mead a little more character to stand out (although I suppose scorched honey itself is unique in the mead realm).

I'm not sure how it fares in a mead recipe, but perhaps maybe a mint flavor added? Not a typical York candy mint, but a more natural wild mint? Boil a few leaves in a small amount of water to extract flavor/kill germs and then pitch it in?

EDIT:

Maybe a foot in for a recipe for a gallon:
Primary - 4lbs of honey, boiled down, add water, throw maybe 1/3 of a pound of cocoa nibs into the carboy then siphon the must on top.
Secondery - add about 1/4 cup of cocoa, 3-5 mint leaves, boil the leaves for about 5 minutes, let cool a while, dissolve cocoa powder into the boiled mint, throw in secondary, rack primary on top

Just suggesting an extra amount of honey because the cocoa nibs would add some bitterness to the mead.
 
I'm going to make a gallon batch of this at least, and I like the mint idea. My friend grows a weird chocolate mint variety that tastes well, like chocolate mint. I will see if I can get my hands on some and add it to secondary with some cocoa nibs.


I'm also planning a second batch, undecided if I will do 3 or 5 gallons. This will be one I know my other half will appreciate, hence the larger quanitity.

for 3 gallons-
6 pounds fireweed honey
6 pounds orange blossom honey
5oz hibiscus
an as of yet undertermined amount of hops, probably Fugle and Goldings
Uvaferm 43 yeast

Trying for something similar to Dansk Mjod's Vikings Blod, I have a basic recipe put together so far and some questions regarding it, particularly with the hops, but perhaps I should start another thread for this recipe?
 
You guys are much more thorough with your cocoa then I was when I made my chocolate cherry wine. I just dumped some cocoa in the secondary and mixed it a little bit. It never really dissolved, it was just clumps of cocoa that I shook up into the wine with the lees every week or so.

I thought it turned out fine, but I was just looking to add a hint of chocolatey flavor. I'll be more precise this time.
 
I'm not personally sold on the mint idea, when ever I have a drink containing mint I always end up wondering why I ordered it. To me it just doesn't work as a drink indredient, much like trying to eat something after brushing your teeth, it just does weird things to your taste buds.
I would be more tempted with the vanilla addition someone mentioned, though am happy with a "standard" chocco-bochet.
 
Insomniac said:
I would be more tempted with the vanilla addition someone mentioned, though am happy with a "standard" chocco-bochet.
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I think vanilla would make a very nice addition to any bochet, or cocoa mead, or a combined. I think cinnamon would also be a very complementary flavor to a cocoa mead, and I've also thought of doing a cocoa mead with chipotles too...I've made a chocholate cinnamon chipotle stout that I really like, and I think it would work in a mead too...

Overall, though, I think for now I'm just going to do the Cocobochet...
 
Hrm. I wonder if anyone out there has actually tried mint in a mead before. I'd be interested in knowing if they liked it. It was just a crazy suggestion.

Cinnamon might be a good addition. I don't really see the point of vanilla and chocolate in a drink though.
 
My raspberry mint mead turned out fantastic....granted it needed about 8 months to come to flavor.
 
I might do one straight chocolate and one with mint just to see. These are going to be aging quite a while so I don't think that will matter too much. What did you do with your mint and what mint did you use?
 
Well I used 1oz. of McCormick mint leaves in a tie bag and steeped them in for about 28 hours at 65 degrees. I removed them after I had a distinct flavor of mint but not overpowering. Then I just it mellow with age and its been one of my best brews.

Think ill try some mint in the primary next time and then add some lavender. Lavender mint.....mmmmmm *mug*
 
lawpaw said:
Not crucial for a bochet at all. I only chose meadowfoam because it is very marshmallowy when heated, so I thought it would go well with some chocolate.

Considering throwing in some buckwheat instead of steeped grains for a "malty" flavor. My buckwheat isn't very grainy tasting, but it is rich like molasses and that could be as good.
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GinKings said:
Meadowfoam is one of my favorite honeys. I've used it with cocoa nibs and really liked the combination, but I'm not sure about using it in a Bochet. I haven't made one yet, but I wonder if you'd lose those wonderfully unique flavors after a couple hours of boiling.



BTW - I like the idea of a leap year bochet.
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Wow, I was just reading on GotMead about someone who did this meadowfoam chocolate nibs mead. Wierd.

turtlescales said:
I'm going to make a gallon batch of this at least, and I like the mint idea. My friend grows a weird chocolate mint variety that tastes well, like chocolate mint. I will see if I can get my hands on some and add it to secondary with some cocoa nibs.


I'm also planning a second batch, undecided if I will do 3 or 5 gallons. This will be one I know my other half will appreciate, hence the larger quanitity.

for 3 gallons-
6 pounds fireweed honey
6 pounds orange blossom honey
5oz hibiscus
an as of yet undertermined amount of hops, probably Fugle and Goldings
Uvaferm 43 yeast

Trying for something similar to Dansk Mjod's Vikings Blod, I have a basic recipe put together so far and some questions regarding it, particularly with the hops, but perhaps I should start another thread for this recipe?
Click to expand...

I don't know if you have made a thread for this or not, but I'd definitely be interested in reading it. Also, how is the Dansk Mjood's Vikings Blod? I just saw that a craft beer shop near me is selling the stuff.






Also, I'm down for jumping on this leap year meadsperiment. Although, I've never made anything other than a JAOM as of now, so I would be fine just doing a well-aged show mead. But anything works for me.
 
Bhunter87 said:
I'm starting my first mead on Monday (jaom) but I would love to be a part of this.

Subscribed
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I just threw a JAOM together not too long ago. I did a mixture of the original and the MAOM. I used the zest but then peeled the oranges, squeezed some juice out with my hands and then threw the rest of the oranges into the mix. In lieu of clover honey, I used orange blossom honey.

One other thing is I used blood oranges. Hopefully it gives the mead a nice crimson color. Or at least a bit red. That would be awesome. There's minimal flavor difference between a normal orange and a blood orange so it shouldn't affect the flavor too much. They just have a little bit of a raspberry flavor on the initial bite, but mellow out to a normal orange flavor.

I also put everything into the water and let it steep around 100-130 degrees for 15-20 minutes, then threw it all into a gallon carboy. Though I might need to repitch my yeast. I kinda set it to rehydrate and let it sit out a bit too long. Hopefully some bubbles start flowing soon.
 
vincanis said:
....I also put everything into the water and let it steep around 100-130 degrees for 15-20 minutes, then threw it all into a gallon carboy. Though I might need to repitch my yeast. I kinda set it to rehydrate and let it sit out a bit too long. Hopefully some bubbles start flowing soon.
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I also just did a 1 gallon JAOM. I'm about 3 weeks in, and let me tell you, mine didn't bubble hardly at all through the airlock. I think the most I had was one bubble every 2 or 4 seconds. My advice, check the SG before repitching.
 
My boyfriend and I just finished racking our 4 meads to secondary, or first attempts at mead making. Our Orange Blossom Traditional, Raspberry Melomel, and Clementine Cyser don't taste like much at this point, just young high octane mead.

Our Bochet on the other hand, even at only 1 month old already tastes incredible. So much so, that my boyfriend has changed his mind about Bochet (he despised the taste of the must at the beginning and wasn't a fan of the smell when I cooked it in the house)

Chocolate bochet sounds killer, I'd rather like to try one with chocolate and vanila, or perhaps chocolate raspberry.
 
turtlescales said:
my boyfriend and i just finished racking our 4 meads to secondary, or first attempts at mead making. Our orange blossom traditional, raspberry melomel, and clementine cyser don't taste like much at this point, just young high octane mead.

Our bochet on the other hand, even at only 1 month old already tastes incredible. So much so, that my boyfriend has changed his mind about bochet (he despised the taste of the must at the beginning and wasn't a fan of the smell when i cooked it in the house)

chocolate bochet sounds killer, i'd rather like to try one with chocolate and vanila, or perhaps chocolate raspberry.
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+1
 
(he despised the taste of the must at the beginning and wasn't a fan of the smell when I cooked it in the house)
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Nooooooooo not supposed to heat mead you newb! lol jk.
 
turtlescales said:
Chocolate bochet sounds killer, I'd rather like to try one with chocolate and vanila, or perhaps chocolate raspberry.
Click to expand...

I'm relying on the meadowfoam for vanilla, otherwise I'd probably add some.

I like the idea of each of us adding our own special twist to the chocolate bochet or at least using different honey.

I'll post my recipe when I finalize it.
 
Just doing done reading on mead making and have never done a batch... But would be cool to do a swap after it's aged....
 
So I have never made mead before, nor have I even tasted it (my first order is supposed to arrive today from NY, I'm in CA)...however this sounds so much fun.

I have a question about aging. At some pout down the aging process the yeast will go dormant and things will settle down. Do you keep the airlock on it for 4 years...or at some point can you just throw a cap on it and tuck it away (does this logic hold true to other brewing as well...like ciders)? In my mind, there is no value to the airlock post fermentation. But maybe im missing something.

I know there are a couple posts already with specific recipe ideas, but of anyone is up to a detailed step by step instruction for this chocolate bochet, the help would be GREATLY appreciated. I love vanilla...so a may consider placing a Madagascar vanilla bean for a week or so during secondary .
 
MikeyBrew11 said:
So I have never made mead before, nor have I even tasted it (my first order is supposed to arrive today from NY, I'm in CA)...however this sounds so much fun.

I have a question about aging. At some pout down the aging process the yeast will go dormant and things will settle down. Do you keep the airlock on it for 4 years...or at some point can you just throw a cap on it and tuck it away (does this logic hold true to other brewing as well...like ciders)? In my mind, there is no value to the airlock post fermentation. But maybe im missing something.

I know there are a couple posts already with specific recipe ideas, but of anyone is up to a detailed step by step instruction for this chocolate bochet, the help would be GREATLY appreciated. I love vanilla...so a may consider placing a Madagascar vanilla bean for a week or so during secondary .
Click to expand...

You raise an interesting question regarding aging. The only reason I can think of as to why an airlock could be important is that there can be pressure shifts in the carboy with temp swings. Unless you can control your temps, you could be at risk for "popping the top" and breaking your seal. I often see an ebb and flow in the airlock liquid with only a few degrees of temp cycling.

Check out my prior posts #44 and #45 -- there's links to some other pages and a video regarding the process, and my general plan for approaching this brew.
 
There will also be compounds such as CO2 and SO2 disolved in your mead that will come out over time, sealing the bottle will stop these from escaping. As the recipe recommends leaving the mead on the cocoa for a year, I imagine I will be leaving it under airlock at least that long + what ever it takes to clear it once the cocoa is removed. Though at that point it's going in bottles, I will want my fermentor back!
 
Haven't seen much action on this thread for a while. Leap Day approacheth!

Who's got their stuff together for a bochet?

(I'll be skipping the chocolate and splitting my 3 gallon batch into 1 with vanilla bean, 1 with mulling spices, and 1 without spice addition)
 
Indeed it does! I think I have everything ready, here is my current plan of action:

Starting batch size 5 litres in primary.
Final batch size 4.55 Litres after racking losses.

4.5 lb Local honey placed in big pot and cooked untill black-ish.
Leave to cool to something below 100c, add water to 4.5 liters, put in 5l carboy with 2 teaspoons nutrient, aerate for 5 mins and pitch lalvin 1116.

Place in fermentation chamer at 17c.

Once fermentation has started to slow drastically remove from fridge, top up to the full 5L, and bring up to room temp to finish off.

Once the bulk of yeast has dropped out, rack on to sorbate/sulphite to stabailise, a week later backsweeten to 1.01 or 1.02 depending on how i feel at the time either using more of the original honey or, by cooking some more of the same honey and using that.

Leave for a month in fridge at 5c to drop out anything I can, then rack on to one vanilla bean, split and scraped, and 150g raw coacoa nibs.

Leave for about a year.

Rack off vanilla and cocoa, and resume standard practice for clearing. Expecting to bottle in 3 to 6 months from this point.
 
I'm ready to jump in on this one, what better time to try my first bochet then for a special event ;)

Going with a one gallon batch (due to resources)

Think I'm going with:
3# of Orange Blossom Honey, orange and chocolate pair well if much of the citrus survives the boil.
1# raw cocao nibs, probably 1/3 primary, 2/3 secondary
3 madagascar vanilla beans split, 1 in primary, 2 in secondary
Lalvin D-47
Goferm to rehydrate
Fermaid K for nutrients
Bottled Spring Water

Sanitize everything plus potential extra equipment (I may go overboard in this step sometimes with extra spoons, funnels etc.)

Gently boil honey to a nice dark carmelization
Cool with slow nutrient enriched water additions
Prep yeast
Add nibs and vanilla to fermenter
Add must to fermenter top of if needed
Pitch yeast
Oxygenate (just switched to pure O2 as I have easy free access)
Airlock and put to bed
Degas/oxygenate
Rack to secondary/tertiary/aging as appropriate
Bottle and wait........(maybe sneak some before it goes into hibernation)
 
I've got my recipe set. I'll be finishing up some honeys, thus the variety.

4.2 gallon batch

Boil 16 lbs. of honey (5lbs. Wildflower, 6lbs. TJ Mesquite, 1lb. Orange Blossom, .75lbs. Buckwheat, .25lbs. Dandelion, 1lb. Carrot Blossom, 2lbs. Raspberry) for around 1 hour or longer.

Boil 4 frozen then thawed bananas in 1 gallon of water for 30 minutes (skin and all).

Add banana water to bochet, top up to 4.2 gallons using 1/2 tap and 1/2 distilled water. Shooting for 1.15 SG, add honey to get to 1.15 if necessary.

Add 1lbs. chopped raisins and 1lbs. chopped dates.

When cooled to 70 degrees F 1 cup of must to K1V-1116 rehydrated in Goferm. Let rest for a few hours, then pitch into must.

SNA, double normal nutrients. Add 1lb. Raspberry honey to bottom of primary 24 hours after pitching yeast.

I'm hoping to ferment nearly dry. I will likely leave it dry for quite a while.

I am planning on boiling 3lbs. of Meadowfoam honey for 1 hour plus in 6 months to a year to backsweeten with. I would like to get between 18-20% ABV then sweeten to around 1.04.

I will deal with adding cocoa after a year or two.
 
Interesting lawpaw sounds like youre making a banana bochet topped with cocoa, wonder if it'll taste like those frozen bananas dipped in chocolate you can get at fairs and carnivals?
 

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