Large Equipment: Where does it live?

[mashdar]

Casting for ideas regarding where everyone brews & keeps large equipment. I'm trying to formulate an equipment plan and realized I may need to modify the basement and get a steam condenser if I get much bigger.

Basements? Do you take steps to limit weight on stairs, or have a floor drain, etc?

Garages? Can you wheel gear outside for brewing? No pest/cleanliness issues?

Brewshed?

etc

 

[Broken Crow]

Looking over your other posts it does sound like you're in it for the long-haul, so a dedicated space that will accomodate future needs only makes sense. If you intend to still be brewing when you're older and it's getting difficult to lift and move things around, if you own your own home and it's the one you're going to retire in, if you have a supportive significant other, what kind of budget do you have, how finished is your basement, do you have space in your garage, do you have space in your yard for a brew shed?
There's as many paths as there are members on this site. Let's start with where you're at, what you have, and where you want to be in the end.

 

[user 341102]

I have a split storage approach. Garage for the AIO kettle, mill, fermenters, and keezer. Grains, tubing, chemicals, etc stored inside to reduce pests. Oh, and the yeast and hops stored in the kitchen freezer...

Maybe I could use a similar approach and try to reduce storage space

 

[mashdar]

Looking over your other posts it does sound like you're in it for the long-haul, so a dedicated space that will accomodate future needs only makes sense. If you intend to still be brewing when you're older and it's getting difficult to lift and move things around, if you own your own home and it's the one you're going to retire in, if you have a supportive significant other, what kind of budget do you have, how finished is your basement, do you have space in your garage, do you have space in your yard for a brew shed?
There's as many paths as there are members on this site. Let's start with where you're at, what you have, and where you want to be in the end.

I don't have a budget/plan yet. Trying to formulate a "goal". (Upper limit probably ~$10k spent over 5-10 years. But very hazy.)

Basement is unfinished. I'm wondering if I should build a raised floor brew room in the corner with the sump. Then an untrapped floor drain could go straight to the sump. (The basement stays dry, although it needs a dehumidifier in the summer. The sump is actually currently spray-foamed to help the radon system, as the original owner installed a heck of a sub-slab drainage system that limits pressure from the newly added radon fan.) A sink would need a pump, as there's a storm pipe at ~24"aff above the sump (grey water?), and a waste line across the basement at 48"aff. But that's not a big deal. There may be an opportunity for a small duct penetration above grade and below the sill, if exhausting.

Garage is oversized 2 car. The space that must've been a workshop currently has the wife's wooden sailboat. There might be space in front of the other car (10'x8'?), but the garage slab has big seams and a 1" drop to driveway, so casters could be hell. Maybe a wall vent and hood would work. I imagine everything out there getting grimy, but maybe covers are an option. Might need to add bollards when the kids start driving.

There's space for a shed, although I'd need to check code re accessory buildings. Maybe an exterior "dog house" addition would be easier.

I'd love to hear what others do, as I'm sure there are options/issues I haven't considered. My first goal is to figure out a proposed space and lay it out on a plan. (Playing architect.)

 

[sibelman]

Your basement option sounds good (cool for fermentation, semi-dedicated, no vehicles/bollards) and bad (stairs, complex drain and ventilation situation). My slightly oversized garage works well for me.

 

[mashdar]

Your basement option sounds good (cool for fermentation, semi-dedicated, no vehicles/bollards) and bad (stairs, complex drain and ventilation situation). My slightly oversized garage works well for me.

That's a nice setup. Electric? I may not be thinking 3 dimensionally enough.
Is there an inline or mushroom fan on that duct?

Gosh, that floor makes me want to refinish our garage slab. It's bare concrete with some spalling under the salty cars. I might feel differently about the space if I did some cleanup/refinishing.

edit: is that a terrazzo floor? Common in NW?

 

[mashdar]

Also, new sink or can you get stuff like that from restaurant surplus somehow? Heck of a sink & hardware.

 

[sibelman]

@mashdar, my garage floor has an aging epoxy coating the previous owner put in. The poor man's terrazzo I guess. Maybe a
better product/application would be more durable, but this one doesn't handle wear from cars very well. The brewing area is holding up well.

Electric, mos def! Don't forget GFCI.

Dunno about restaurant surplus, as sinks are more permanent than most restaurant gear; but mine was fairly cheap new at a cash-and-carry restaurant supply house. A good sink (24x24x24 with sideboard, and Krowne pre-rinse faucet/sprayer) has been hugely beneficial.

The fan is in-line, Vortex branded ~700cfm, but that turns out to be more powerful than needed.

 

[Konadog]

I store my equipment in the garage on a rolling stand, easy in/out. I recently lowered my mash tun part of the stand to 15inches so I can lift it on/off easier (sorry, no pics yet).

 

[mashdar]

I store my equipment in the garage on a rolling stand, easy in/out. I recently lowered my mash tun part of the stand to 15inches so I can lift it on/off easier (sorry, no pics yet).


View attachment 828925

Do you heat the mash tun? HERMS?

I guess big casters help getting over seams? I suppose one could get tires and a leader to pull the cart with. Maybe even find an appropriate cart as a base? eg (didn't check dimensions, but by way of example)
https://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-mesh-deck-steel-wagon-60359.html
edit: you count mash/boil to predict propane capacity?

 

[Konadog]

No heat for the mash tun, just pump hot water into the bottom of the tun, stir, and let sit.

I have a small gap from the concrete in the garage to the driveway, and found out if you pull it out so that only one wheel at a time hits the gap, it doesn't get caught up. You could also use wooden wedges to help if needed.

Yes, I do count how many mash/boil/whirlpool's I get out of a propane tank. Helps me know about when I "should run out" of propane.

 

[Malticulous]

I store most of my stuff in my 10x12 brew shed. I can set it up almost anywhere. I have a jobsite temporary power setup.

It's also my fermentation chamber. I insulated it very well. Even when it's over 110F it stays 60F.

 

[Deadalus]

Garage for me. Before I had the hood, I wheeled it outside. You can add wheels to some SS tables. I vent through the wall at the band joist. The exhaust is an inline cloudline (6"). It's adequate but the 8" would be better. If the rig sits for too long it will get dusty. Floor is where the mess is, can't seem to keep it dry ever! Utility sink is on opposite wall, but it's ugly. Looking tobfind a 3 compartment SS sink used with sideboards someday. I will finish the garage off too, someday as well!

 

[mashdar]

View attachment 828938

You win shiniest gear! Did you do the weld/riveting on hood? Looks very clean.

 

[OleBrewing]

Used to have brew stand that would flip up for storage in garage. New place I am doing a dedicated brew/canning spot in basement. Other than taking garden hose and washing in driveway and now hauling spent grains up stairs. I can now brew big batches in winter instead of stovetop batches.

 

[Deadalus]

You win shiniest gear! Did you do the weld/riveting on hood? Looks very clean.

Thanks! I did fabricate the hood. It's riveted, no welds.

 

[mashdar]

Used to have brew stand that would flip up for storage in garage. New place I am doing a dedicated brew/canning spot in basement. Other than taking garden hose and washing in driveway and now hauling spent grains up stairs. I can now brew big batches in winter instead of stovetop batches.

Nice! How do you manage the floor? Any floor drain/covering?

 

[OleBrewing]

Nice! How do you manage the floor? Any floor drain/covering?

right now it is just concrete. i installed a utility sink not very far away. i may put down a rubber mat for easier floor cleaning. will see how messy a am.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I brew in the basement. When we had the house built, I had a spot picked out to serve as my brewing area. The builder ran a gas line and water, but stupid me forgot about a drain. I get by without it but kick myself every brew day.

I installed a Craig's List find of a two bowl commercial sink. It has a drain boards on each end, seven feet long so it takes up most of one wall. Next to it I put in a modified electric 20 gallon water heater. The pressure relief valve is removed, a temp controller added so I can dial in my mash temp. It's mounted up high so I can gravity drain into the mash tun. The brew kettle is natural gas fired. Above it is an exhaust hood vented outside.

On brewery sink I have two faucets. One has adapters for quick disconnect hose fittings for water hookups for things like the plate chiller, pumps and general cleaning.

The brew kettle, mash tun, conical fermenter and a cart have wheels so they can be moved for use or stored away. On one wall I installed peg board for mash paddles, hooks for hardware pieces, gloves, etc.

A few things that are an absolute must in any basement/garage brewery:
Fire extinguisher
Carbon monoxide sensor
Heavy gloves, eye protection
Mop bucket

Just a bunch of food for thought on what you can do. I enjoy brewing in the basement, but it is a walkout basement which helps a lot with cleaning (summer time) and hauling out spent grain. I also serve my beer on the opposite side of the brewing area. Nice to have a refreshing beer after brew day!

 

[mashdar]

I brew in the basement. When we had the house built, I had a spot picked out to serve as my brewing area. The builder ran a gas line and water, but stupid me forgot about a drain. I get by without it but kick myself every brew day.

I installed a Craig's List find of a two bowl commercial sink. It has a drain boards on each end, seven feet long so it takes up most of one wall. Next to it I put in a modified electric 20 gallon water heater. The pressure relief valve is removed, a temp controller added so I can dial in my mash temp. It's mounted up high so I can gravity drain into the mash tun. The brew kettle is natural gas fired. Above it is an exhaust hood vented outside.

On brewery sink I have two faucets. One has adapters for quick disconnect hose fittings for water hookups for things like the plate chiller, pumps and general cleaning.

The brew kettle, mash tun, conical fermenter and a cart have wheels so they can be moved for use or stored away. On one wall I installed peg board for mash paddles, hooks for hardware pieces, gloves, etc.

A few things that are an absolute must in any basement/garage brewery:
Fire extinguisher
Carbon monoxide sensor
Heavy gloves, eye protection
Mop bucket

Just a bunch of food for thought on what you can do. I enjoy brewing in the basement, but it is a walkout basement which helps a lot with cleaning (summer time) and hauling out spent grain. I also serve my beer on the opposite side of the brewing area. Nice to have a refreshing beer after brew day!

Thanks for reply. Sink sounds nice!

FWIW water heaters turn into literal bombs in runaway heating - the TPRV keeps it from blowing up if the controls fail. (The water can super heat and then vaporize all at once when the vessel fails. How big the boom is depends on how high the pressure gets before failure. Not relevant if you keep the water heater open to atmosphere, e.g. a top port is wide open.)

Here's myth busters blowing up some water heaters if you want an illustration:

Their "no boom" must have failed before building much pressure, but you never know where a vessel will fail.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Yes, the water heater is vented to atmosphere and PRV is removed. Great point, thanks for noting the venting part!

I've been using it that way for many years.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Look around on Craigslist, I have seen smaller sinks like mine and larger ones too. A three bowl would be nice. I saw one once that was 12 feet long.

 

[mashdar]

Yes, the water heater is vented to atmosphere and PRV is removed. Great point, thanks for noting the venting part!

I've been using it that way for many years.

I think most people on here doing that kind of project do it safely, but you never know!

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I think most people on here doing that kind of project do it safely, but you never know!

It's great point to stress! I'm glad you noted that. I certainly wouldn't want folks to get the wrong idea.

 

[Neldog0]

I don't have a budget/plan yet. Trying to formulate a "goal". (Upper limit probably ~$10k spent over 5-10 years. But very hazy.)

Basement is unfinished. I'm wondering if I should build a raised floor brew room in the corner with the sump. Then an untrapped floor drain could go straight to the sump. (The basement stays dry, although it needs a dehumidifier in the summer. The sump is actually currently spray-foamed to help the radon system, as the original owner installed a heck of a sub-slab drainage system that limits pressure from the newly added radon fan.) A sink would need a pump, as there's a storm pipe at ~24"aff above the sump (grey water?), and a waste line across the basement at 48"aff. But that's not a big deal. There may be an opportunity for a small duct penetration above grade and below the sill, if exhausting.

Garage is oversized 2 car. The space that must've been a workshop currently has the wife's wooden sailboat. There might be space in front of the other car (10'x8'?), but the garage slab has big seams and a 1" drop to driveway, so casters could be hell. Maybe a wall vent and hood would work. I imagine everything out there getting grimy, but maybe covers are an option. Might need to add bollards when the kids start driving.

There's space for a shed, although I'd need to check code re accessory buildings. Maybe an exterior "dog house" addition would be easier.

I'd love to hear what others do, as I'm sure there are options/issues I haven't considered. My first goal is to figure out a proposed space and lay it out on a plan. (Playing architect.)

I finished my basement, put in a basin sink, pump toilet & finished the space for brewing beer. It works great!!!

 

[Bobby_M]

First, you're in NY so if you plan to brew year round, I think it's unrealistic to plan to brew outside. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's certainly a lot of trouble and discomfort. An unfinished basement is perfect for an electric system coupled with a steam condenser unit. Maybe it's not obvious, but electric is really the only safe way to do this and there's no reason not to use electric. Having a place to brew where you don't need to haul out or setup anything makes for more regular brewing where you can put your planning time into recipes and sticking to the plan.

Floor drain? Nice to have, not really necessary. A mop can handle clean up if you get messy.

You mention LARGE equipment, but how big of a batch size are you looking to accomplish here? My recommendations would vary quite a bit based on that answer.

 

[DonT]

Here's my garage brew space. I'm in sunny California so I just brew with the garage door open. I put in a sink that drains to the outside gutter drain and hot water from the water heater in the opposite corner. cold water comes from the main supply pipe that runs behind the benches. I also plumbed in cold water for the CFC from that pipe.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Nothing is more enjoyable than brewing in the basement while watching the snow pile up outside. I'd give that up in a heartbeat for year round summer brewing!

 

[mashdar]

You mention LARGE equipment, but how big of a batch size are you looking to accomplish here? My recommendations would vary quite a bit based on that answer.

Well, I look at those jacketed conicals and they're ~60lbs empty (edit: on the low end). Just seems pretty heavy.

In the long run 10-15 gallon batches is a likely target. I don't have a desire to go much bigger unless I somehow find more people to drink it!

I'm beginning to think splitting batches into 10gal kegs as fermenters may be the way to go for the long haul - still mulling over cooling options, though. (Maybe a chilled coil wrapped on keg exterior? Cu would be a lot easier if it won't corrode on 304, but I don't know enough about metals atm.) I know there's a 20gal torpedo, but I suspect 120+ lbs of beer is too much for me to move safely. Perhaps if it was filled/emptied in place.

(I guess there are two separate equipment payloads: brewing and fermenting. Ideally they'd be colocated, but if the fermentors are under 80lbs I can move them around for at least another couple decades (I hope!). But we don't plan to move until we're dead or senile, so hopefully it's worth getting the setup just right.)

 

[mashdar]

View attachment 828997

Here's my garage brew space. I'm in sunny California so I just brew with the garage door open. I put in a sink that drains to the outside gutter drain and hot water from the water heater in the opposite corner. cold water comes from the main supply pipe that runs behind the benches. I also plumbed in cold water for the CFC from that pipe.

I brewed in the garage by the open door last winter and it went OK. And if brew day is rainy that's still the spot.

Is that squat guy a fermentor with an IC? Pressure rated? (I see the blowtie)

 

[Bobby_M]

Well, I look at those jacketed conicals and they're ~60lbs empty (edit: on the low end). Just seems pretty heavy.

In the long run 10-15 gallon batches is a likely target. I don't have a desire to go much bigger unless I somehow find more people to drink it!

I'm beginning to think splitting batches into 10gal kegs as fermenters may be the way to go for the long haul - still mulling over cooling options, though. (Maybe a chilled coil wrapped on keg exterior? Cu would be a lot easier if it won't corrode on 304, but I don't know enough about metals atm.) I know there's a 20gal torpedo, but I suspect 120+ lbs of beer is too much for me to move safely. Perhaps if it was filled/emptied in place.

(I guess there are two separate equipment payloads: brewing and fermenting. Ideally they'd be colocated, but if the fermentors are under 80lbs I can move them around for at least another couple decades (I hope!). But we don't plan to move until we're dead or senile, so hopefully it's worth getting the setup just right.)

Before you get too ahead of yourself, consider how batch size affects both brewing frequency and motivation. If you brew big batches, you'll brew less often and learn a lot less. I'm sure it's all a personal journey and all, but my brewing tanked when I switched from 5 to 10 gallon batches and a lot of the time I was dumping out all or half of that second keg because it was aging out or I got bored of the same beer. I'll just say that as a homebrew shop owner for the last 10 years, I see a LOT of people upgrade to a larger size and then a few months later they are selling everything and getting out of the hobby. I'm just saying, make sure you need all that "SAME" beer. I've been brewing 6 gallons and splitting the ferment to two 3 gallon fermenters to learn more about yeast strains for example. I brew pretty often and I like that. You will too when your setup is established and you can just walk in and brew.

You should be thinking about setting up fermentation is close proximity to your brewing station and the size and weight of the fermenters won't even be an issue. If you do end up with conicals, you'll clean them in place and not heave them outside or into a sink. If you have the budget for them, most people that end up with Spike, SSbrewtech, or Brewbuilt unitanks are pretty happy with them. The Spike ones use an internal coil while the newer Brewbuilt and SSbrewtechs have glycol jackets on them. As above, the big challenge is deciding on batch size.

As far as the hot side wort production goes, I can't emphasize enough how much better I think a single vessel eBIAB system is over all other system types. While I don't think brewing 15 gallon batches is the right move unless you throw neighborhood wide parties all year, you can definitely do 15 gallon batches on such a system.

Here's my friend Larry's setup. He brews 10 and 15 gallon batches in a 30 gallon Blichmann kettle and ferments in three Spike CF15s with a Penguin glycol chiller.

My system is similar but I don't use conicals.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

There's nothing wrong starting out with smaller batches and working your way up. There's less cash going out and as you grow into the hobby and upgrade equipment can be sold or repurposed within your brewery. Plus along the way in your journey you'll be learning and getting your technique down and seeing what works best.

Just like many brewers, I started out using buckets as fermenter and now, many years later fermenting in a Spike CF10. I went from five gallon batches to ten then 15. Now I'm good with ten gallons of beer and brew to feed three taps. Sometimes a ten gallon batch is split, like a wheat beer, one straight up and one with fruit.

 

[jrgtr42]

I have a basement space for my brewery. |When we moved in, I was brewing outside the basement with a turkey fryer, but when we had the water heater replaced, we needed a plumber and electrician anyway, so I had them put in a 240-volt outlet and a slop sink in the area, for induction burner, and brewing and other uses for the sink.
Most of the draining, cooling water and cleaning is in the sink - there's not a ton of water going around otherwise - yeah, some over spray and whatnot, but plain water i don't worry about and anything else I'll run a mop around once in a while.
I don;t have a floor drain down there at all.

OP, Some of us might be interested in the boat that's taking up the potential brewing space...

 

[mashdar]

I'm just saying, make sure you need all that "SAME" beer.

I guess I mean I'd like an upper limit of 10-15. In reality I expect 80% of batches to be 4-7 gallons (current routine), and 20% to be larger, based on how much of it I expect/want to go through. But maybe that's not a great idea, since the 20% will mostly be the "boring" beer.

I do like the split yeast idea. I've been thinking having 2 (edit: kettles) would be nice for hop evaluations, too, but I might just be going nuts. (I bought a 120V brewzilla for now, which was relatively cheap and I figure will be good for something down the road even when I upgrade. Coming from ~2005 brewing universe, it's been pleasant, if a little slow.)

 

[DonT]

I brewed in the garage by the open door last winter and it went OK. And if brew day is rainy that's still the spot.

Is that squat guy a fermentor with an IC? Pressure rated? (I see the blowtie)

It's a Spike Flex+... if you look closely, you'll see the glycol chiller underneath. The flex+ is rated to 15psi...
I brew rain or shine... later in the day the sun shines in and that's nice if it's cold out. In the summer when it's hot I try to be finished up by 2-3pm otherwise it gets too hot.

 

[mashdar]

OP, Some of us might be interested in the boat that's taking up the potential brewing space...

I'm not a big sailor, so I have to admit to ignorance. If you have boat-person questions, let me know and I'll relay them lol.

It's a smallish boat my wife built with her dad. Comfortably fits one at the rudder and two on the side benches. Maybe 12'? I can't recall where they got the design; either a designer in Maine or the UK. But they made some modifications, so I suppose it's unique. It's a similar shape to this one, but the deck in front's a little bigger, single sail, and it has some seats/storage.

Sail is 4 sided by Dabbler, looks like this one (below). It's set up for single person to rig it easily. Originally it had a hollow wooden mast, but now part of it is aluminum. I can't find photos of one with the 4-sided sail and a mast as far back as this one.

Father in law has built a bunch of wooden sailboats over the years as as a hobby. Neat guy.

edit: I looked at the plans, here's the source of the design. I was wrong; the designer is in NZ! I think they p8cked this for sailing near oyster sholes.
https://jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/general-purpose-boats/truant/

 

[Bobby_M]

I guess I mean I'd like an upper limit of 10-15. In reality I expect 80% of batches to be 4-7 gallons (current routine), and 20% to be larger, based on how much of it I expect/want to go through. But maybe that's not a great idea, since the 20% will mostly be the "boring" beer.

I do like the split yeast idea. I've been thinking having 2 (edit: kettles) would be nice for hop evaluations, too, but I might just be going nuts. (I bought a 120V brewzilla for now, which was relatively cheap and I figure will be good for something down the road even when I upgrade. Coming from ~2005 brewing universe, it's been pleasant, if a little slow.)

I've thought about setting up dueling hot side rigs to be able to do side by side experiments the way the Brulosophy contributors do, but I've been having plenty of fun with the pre-ferment splits just fine. I can also make a bigger batch of bittered wort, drain off half and do split late hop additions. The thing about stepping up to a very powerful single vessel rig (5500 watts for a 5-6 gallon batch), I don't mind having to brew twice sometimes since it's under 4 hours all in.

If you didn't want to go too big too soon, you would definitely appreciate even something like the Foundry 10.5 and run it on 240v for 2800 watts. It's not a race car, but peppy.

I also backed off on complicated fermenters, selling off my three unitanks, going back to modified fermonsters that fit nicely into certain minifridges. It takes me all of 5 minutes to clean them after transferring to the serving kegs.

 

[mashdar]

It takes me all of 5 minutes to clean them after transferring to the serving kegs.

Yeah I am thinking keg/all-rounder/etc may just be easier since it can be man-handled and has limited internal surfaces. The 304 jacket/IC conical are just so alluring in the abstract. When I start doing a mental walkthrough of a brew day & packaging day, I start having issues, though.

I watched your video and your setup is very nice. What's a "welded trub guard"?

I imagine you've done CFC and went back to IC? If you get a good whirlpool going, maybe CFC has no time advantage?

Do you put a thermowell in the FV, or just maintain ambient? (Do you set ambient a bit low and fine tune with the heat wrap?)

 

[Bobby_M]

Yeah I am thinking keg/all-rounder/etc may just be easier since it can be man-handled and has limited internal surfaces. The 304 jacket/IC conical are just so alluring in the abstract. When I start doing a mental walkthrough of a brew day & packaging day, I start having issues, though.

I watched your video and your setup is very nice. What's a "welded trub guard"?

The least significant part of that build. It doesn't really stop the trub from entering the drain once the level drops to the pile of trub in the center. I have since switched to using the whirlpool port to drain off clean wort.

I imagine you've done CFC and went back to IC? If you get a good whirlpool going, maybe CFC has no time advantage?

Since I don't have any way of dumping trub from my fermenter like you can with a conical, I choose to chill directly in the kettle, short whirlpool, let it settle clear and then transfer. If I did use a CFC, I would have to pump it back into the kettle anyway. If I had a conical, I would use a CFC and make a single pass into the fermenter at whatever temp that is and let the glycol take it the rest of the way down, a settle time, trub dump, then pitch yeast in.

Do you put a thermowell in the FV, or just maintain ambient? (Do you set ambient a bit low and fine tune with the heat wrap?)

I tape a piece of styrofoam to my FV and tuck the probe behind it. I use an inkbird that does heating and cooling with a 2F differential.

 

[Floor Pros]

right now it is just concrete. i installed a utility sink not very far away. i may put down a rubber mat for easier floor cleaning. will see how messy a am.

I don't have control over physical spaces, but managing floors typically involves regular cleaning, maintenance, and using appropriate materials. Floor drains and coverings like mats can be important for safety and functionality.