Lager Yeast Questions

[backyardbrewco]

I'm about to attempt my first lager and I have some questions. I ended up with two lager wyeast smackpacks. One is an urquell yeast and the other an american yeast. I don't have any DME to make a starter, could I just pitch both packs? Is there something I can substitute for DME? I only plan on brewing one lager in the immediate future, so I should use both packs before they expire. After I activate the yeast, can I pour a little into a sanitized bottle and store it to help with bottle conditioning later? Thanks!

 

[weldingdrummer]

I am new but I hear about only having one yeast strain at a time, so I would advise against mixing.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[slow_boat]

I routinely mix yeasts (both ales and lagers), and get great results. I just brewed a May Bock where I mixed German Bock and Munich yeast, and so far so good.

I think that the mix between American and Urquell would work well together, so I say go for it. Use both packs for a good pitch.

Yes, you can save your yeast. Take some of your chilled wort and feed it first before you store it. Cover it with foil, and give it a swirl every other day. You should have enough viable cells to bottle condition.

 

[backyardbrewco]

I routinely mix yeasts (both ales and lagers), and get great results. I just brewed a May Bock where I mixed German Bock and Munich yeast, and so far so good.

I think that the mix between American and Urquell would work well together, so I say go for it. Use both packs for a good pitch.

Yes, you can save your yeast. Take some of your chilled wort and feed it first before you store it. Cover it with foil, and give it a swirl every other day. You should have enough viable cells to bottle condition.

Just so I'm clear on the process. I would chill my wort to where I pitch my yeast. Set aside a bit and store at 38 F and the yeast will stay dormant. Then when the lagering is complete, I can add the stored yeast to help with bottle conditioning?

Thanks!


Backyard Brew Co

 

[airdog_47]

I typically like to do a 250ml starter for 20-36 hours. Then add additional 500ml of wort for another 24 hours. This gives a pretty good lager start. A 5 gallon batch will show good signs of fermentation in less than 24 hrs. Mixing yeast is always interesting and will not result in bad consequences. You typically need about 1/2 the amount of pitching yeast when it come to bottling. Remember you will want to add additional sugar at bottle. If you go with DME you will want to bottle condition at your age / lagering temp. If using regular corn sugar / priming sugar then it's ok to just carb at warmer or room temps.

 

[beersnblues]

I never add more yeast at bottling time. Have only done about 15 lagers, but have not had a problem with carbonation. On the other hand, I think Yooper suggests doing this. I know some advocate using dry yeast at bottling. I'd probably just pitch both smack packs if that is what you are planning to do rather than saving some for later. Use dry yeast at bottling if you really feel the need to do it.

 

[BigFloyd]

Just so I'm clear on the process. I would chill my wort to where I pitch my yeast. Set aside a bit and store at 38 F and the yeast will stay dormant. Then when the lagering is complete, I can add the stored yeast to help with bottle conditioning?

Thanks!


Backyard Brew Co

#1 - why do you think you need more yeast for bottle conditioning? You will have plenty of yeast remaining unless you plan to lager for several months. There's no need to hold any back. If you want to add yeast at bottling, 1/5 a packet of Nottingham or US-05 will do nicely.

#2 - Use all of the yeast in both smack packs. Lager yeast is a different species from ale yeast and requires TWICE the pitch rate. Even two smack packs is going to be an under-pitch in any lager, especially one of medium to high gravity. If you can hold off brewing this until you can get some DME for a starter, that would be much better. Bottom line - if you're going to do lagers, get used to making starters. If possible, use a stir plate so you don't have to make such massive lager starters to get the right cell count. http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator

#3 - Chill your wort to the mid-40's and oxygenate the heck out of it before pitching. Hopefully, you can control the ferment temp around 48-52*F until it's time for a diacetyl rest in the low 60's. Don't expect the kind of exciting fermentation activity you're used to seeing in an ale.

Good luck.

 

[backyardbrewco]

#1 - why do you think you need more yeast for bottle conditioning? You will have plenty of yeast remaining unless you plan to lager for several months. There's no need to hold any back. If you want to add yeast at bottling, 1/5 a packet of Nottingham or US-05 will do nicely.

#2 - Use all of the yeast in both smack packs. Lager yeast is a different species from ale yeast and requires TWICE the pitch rate. Even two smack packs is going to be an under-pitch in any lager, especially one of medium to high gravity. If you can hold off brewing this until you can get some DME for a starter, that would be much better. Bottom line - if you're going to do lagers, get used to making starters. If possible, use a stir plate so you don't have to make such massive lager starters to get the right cell count. http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator

#3 - Chill your wort to the mid-40's and oxygenate the heck out of it before pitching. Hopefully, you can control the ferment temp around 48-52*F until it's time for a diacetyl rest in the low 60's. Don't expect the kind of exciting fermentation activity you're used to seeing in an ale.

Good luck.

I heard that the yeast can die during the lagering process and that it might be a good idea to add yeast back in to help with bottle conditioning. The same guy also said that he even uses a dry ale yeast. I figured that keeping a bit would save me from doing this.

Beersmith is telling me that I need a pitch rate of around 180 billion and each pack has about one billion according to wyeasts website. However I'm new to beersmith and lagering so I appreciate your feedback.

My bathroom in my basement stays right around 50 and I don't expect that to change in the next couple of weeks. This is kind of the reason why I want to hurry up and get started on this though. Otherwise I would have to wait until Monday to get DME and then not brew until at least Thursday ish.

I don't want to rush it but if I can feasibly do it sooner than I would rather do that.

Thanks for all your help everyone. The people at my local home brew store don't know much about brewing more than an extract and even then I don't trust what the say all that much.


Backyard Brew Co

 

[airdog_47]

Very nice... Do what you want... I slant lager yeast. Do what works.. Tell me your tries...

 

[BigFloyd]

You may have gotten the 180 billion cells number using the ale pitch rate (0.75).

5.0 gallons of lager wort should get 352 billion cells at the base lager pitch rate of 1.50. Unless you've got yeast that left the factory yesterday, your cells per pack is considerably less than 100 billion. A one month old pack is already down to 78 billion cells if kept at fridge temps the whole time.