lager starter size and pure O2

[nolasuperbass]

For a 10 gallon lager, Mr. Malty suggests something like a 2 gallon starter, even for normal gravity lagers. Because that is huge pain, I was wondering if I could avoid it by pitching something easier, like a half gallon, using pure O2 for 60 seconds, then giving the beer a second dose of pure O2 about 12 hours later. I read somewhere that you can effectively increase the pitch rate with a second pure O2 burst during the growth phase before fermentation starts. What do you guys think?

 

[helibrewer]

How old is your yeast? Using a stirplate?
Try this calculator Yeast Calculator

 

[nolasuperbass]

Thanks for the response. I played around with your calculator and got a similar response to Mr. Malty's. The yeast will be a pint of slurry of White Labs Mexican lager yeast saved from a batch in January and kept in the fridge. I will be using a stir plate. According to Mr. Malty, I have both under-pitched and over-pitched with this yeast in the past, but I have experienced no perceptible difference in the result. After reading all those brulosophy experiments with lager yeast pitching, I wonder if the huge pitch rate is something that we've always been told, but isn't actually true, or if simply dosing it a second time with O2 is really all you need. Right now, having to make the beer before I make the beer is the big thing discouraging me from making more lagers.

 

[catdaddy66]

I haven't made many lagers (I can count them on one hand) but I always stepped up the starter twice to 3 qts. That was plenty, but I do 5 gal batches. I would think a gallon starter would be plenty for 10 gallon batches.

Possibly flawed math... Just thinking out loud.

 

[hottpeper13]

I make a 1L starter of the lager yeast I will use this season. Then make a 2.5 gal batch of my Kolsch recipe. After the wort is boiling for 10 min I take 1qt out chill it and put it in the starter. Now I will have ~2L of high krausen starter to pitch on 2.5 gal of wort. Then I harvest the slurry and pitch the whole thing into 10 gal of wort. This yeast is then repitched ~4 times with the last one going in a 1.084 or so double bock.

 

[RedlegEd]

For a 10 gallon lager, Mr. Malty suggests something like a 2 gallon starter, even for normal gravity lagers. Because that is huge pain, I was wondering if I could avoid it by pitching something easier, like a half gallon, using pure O2 for 60 seconds, then giving the beer a second dose of pure O2 about 12 hours later. I read somewhere that you can effectively increase the pitch rate with a second pure O2 burst during the growth phase before fermentation starts. What do you guys think?

Hi. You have some other options if you don't want to make a monster starter. One is "Drauflassen", which is very well explained by Kai at braukaiser.com, but basically is nothing more than pitching to part of your well oxygenated wort, then as it gets going, pour in the rest of your wort about 24 hours later. The other method that works very well (and the one I use,) is to pitch my 1-2L starter (into 6 gal) at about 68°F, let it rest for about 12 hours, then ramp down into primary fermentation temps. Hopes this helps. Ed


ETA: Yes, I know, I'll probably kick up the "cold vs warm pitch" debate, but even White Labs says this is a valid technique when you don't have a sufficiently large starter for a cold pitch.

 

[14thstreet]

RedlegEd, my last lager utilized drauflassen for the first time 11 days ago. Used 1 Wyeast 2007 smackpack on 1-1.5 gallons at 52F for 24 hours then added the rest of the wort up to 5 gallons at the same temperature. I'm sitting at 1.018 now. I decided to warm it up to see if I can get it going again. Perhaps time is all I need but I'm also unfamiliar with this yeast. It pays to have experience! But I like the looks of hottpeper's schedule, I've used something similar before and it's sound practice.

 

[SpeedYellow]

Lot of folks are moving away from cell-count-calculators and just doing "vitality" starters, which is just a pack of yeast in 1L starter, on a stir plate for 4-8 hours. I've tried this a few times with great results each time: short lag time, reasonably strong fermentations (I measure CO2 output rate daily), and done by 7 days. Hitting those 3 targets, I can't imagine how the resulting beer could be any worse.

If you're really hung up on pitch rate, try dry yeast. IMHO liquid yeast with huge starters just isn't worth the hassle.

If I did 10-gal batches regularly, I would brew a 5-gal experimental batch, keg it, then just toss the 10-gal on top of that yeast cake, without cleaning or anything. Works great.

 

[nolasuperbass]

Thanks RedlegEd, that's great idea! Definitely going to try it with the next lager.