La Cumbre Red Ryeot - recipe critique please

[fosaisu]

I would like to brew something in the style of La Cumbre's very tasty Red Ryeot. La Cumbre has very kindly put lots of detail on their website (http://www.lacumbrebrewing.com/red-ryeot/):

DESCRIPTION:
A malted magic hop bomb. Rich caramel and toasted malts team up with flaked rye and march to the beat of a big but balancing bitterness only to be overtaken by an onslaught of American hop aroma and flavor.

STATS:

• Starting Gravity: 1.066
• Final Gravity: 1.017
• Alcohol By Volume: 6.5%
• IBUs: 75

GRAINS:

• Canadian Superior Pale malt
• Durst Munich II
• Durst Vienna
• Crisp Caramel 77L
• Weyerman Cararoma
• Weyerman malted Rye
• Flaked Rye

HOPS:

• CTZ
• Meridian
• Mosaic
• Chinook
• Centennial
• Nelson Sauvin

And here's my first cut at a clone recipe for an 11 gallon batch, I welcome any thoughts/feedback you care to offer, especially as to the mix of adjunct grains and the hop schedule!

YEAST: US-05 (not specified on the site, but they use Chico Ale yeast in their Elevated IPA)

GRAIN BILL (mash at 152° F for 60 mins):

• Pale Ale Malt - 12.75lb (47.7%)
• Malted Rye - 3lb (11.2%)
• Flaked Rye - 3lb (11.2%)
• Vienna - 2lb (7.5%)
• Munich II - 2lb (7.5%)
• Caramel 75L - 2lb (7.5%)
• CaraAroma - 2lb (7.5%)

HOP SCHEDULE:

• 60 min: 2.5oz Chinook [13 AA]
• 15 min: 2oz Centennial [10 AA]
• 5 min: 2oz Centennial [10 AA]
• Flameout: 1 oz each Meridian, Mosaic, Nelson Sauvin
• Dry Hop: 1 oz each Meridian, Mosaic, Nelson Sauvin

 

[TandemTails]

That's a great beer! I don't have anything to contribute to the recipe but please keep us posted on how it turns out.

 

[fosaisu]

I found a La Cumbre IPA recipe that was supposedly shared by the brewer himself, and thought it might gives some hints as to La Cumbre's general approach to recipe construction. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=499583

With that I tweaked my draft grain bill and hop schedule a bit, though I would still love to get feedback before I brew. The revised recipe:

YEAST: US-05 (not specified on the site, but they use Chico Ale yeast in their Elevated IPA)

GRAIN BILL (mash at 152° F for 60 mins):

• Pale Ale Malt - 14lb (52.8%)
• Malted Rye - 3lb (11.3%)
• Flaked Rye - 3lb (11.3%)
• Vienna - 2.5lb (9.4%)
• Munich II - 1lb (3.8%)
• Caramel 75L - 1.5lb (5.7%)
• CaraAroma - 1.5lb (5.7%)

HOP SCHEDULE:

• First Wort Hop: 2oz Chinook [13 AA]
• 60 min: 1oz Chinook [13 AA]
• 15 min: 3oz Centennial [10 AA]
• 5 min: 2oz Centennial [10 AA]
• Flameout: 1 oz each Chinook, Centennial
• Dry Hop: 1 oz each Meridian, Mosaic, Nelson Sauvin

 

[stpug]

I'm totally shooting from the hip here because I've never had Red Ryeot so I'm not sure how the malt quality comes across. My gut instinct is that the amount of crystal malts is too high, and specifically the caraaroma level is too high. Crisp 77L moves beyond the caramel character and into the marshmallow or "hints of burnt sugar" department, along with some dried fruit characters. CaraAroma is fully into the toasted/burnt sugar character along with hints of roast and maybe some raisin. Using 11% of these in your grist seems like any of the malt layering you're doing underneath will be lost or just lead to a muddled character. I think 1 lb of C77 and 0.5 lb of CaraA might still be a lot, but it seems more reasonable. Increase base malt as needed to account for lost gravity.

Next comments are based on some of the hoppy La Cumbre beers I've had:
2oz of flameout/steeping hops seems too little (solution, double it)
3oz of dryhop seems too little (solution, double it)

 

[fosaisu]

Thanks for the reply! Here's v3 of the recipe, I'll plan to try this later this month or early next year unless I get further comments! I trimmed back on the caramel/caraaroma, but read elsewhere that higher amounts of crystal complements the spiciness in a rye beer, so hopefully I've landed at a happy place. Will report back on the results regardless.

YEAST: US-05 (not specified on the site, but they use Chico Ale yeast in their Elevated IPA)

GRAIN BILL (mash at 151° F for 60 mins):

• Pale Ale Malt - 15.5lb (58.5%)
• Malted Rye - 3lb (11.3%)
• Flaked Rye - 3lb (11.3%)
• Vienna - 2lb (7.5%)
• Munich II - 1lb (3.8%)
• Caramel 75L - 1lb (3.8%)
• CaraAroma - 1lb (3.8%)
• Sauermalz - .5lb (1.9%)

HOP SCHEDULE:

• First Wort Hop: 2oz Chinook [13 AA]
• 60 min: 1oz Chinook [13 AA]
• 15 min: 3oz Centennial [10 AA]
• 5 min: 2oz Centennial [10 AA]
• Flameout: 2 oz each Chinook, Meridian, Mosaic
• Dry Hop: 2 oz each Meridian, Mosaic, Nelson Sauvin

 

[saltymirv]

So, I haven't had this beer either (but it looks great). Just putting the stuff into beersmith, here is what I would do:

5.5g batch, 72% efficiency

7.5lb 2-row
1.75lb Rye Malt
1.75lb Flaked Rye
1.25lb Vienna
1lb Munich
.5lb C-75
.25lb Cara-Aroma

This equates to an SRM of 12.5, which should be close to the real thing, picture here: http://abqbeer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/la-cumbre-red-ryeot1-1024x731.jpg

OG: 1.066

The hops I just went with how I would do it. I left out Meridian because I've never heard of it and its not in Beersmith either. I saved all the fancy hops (mosaic/nelson) for the dry hop

.75oz CTZ @ 60
.5oz each of CTZ, Centennial, Chinook @ 15
.5oz each of CTZ, Centennial, Chinook @ 5

2oz each Mosaic/Nelson Sauvin Dry Hop
1oz CTZ Dry Hop
1oz Chinook Dry Hop.

IBU: 75

That should be a bomb of spice and fruit. Sounds really good actually, I'm going to save the recipe

 

[deepchills]

Did anyone brew this yet? If so, how did it go?
I thought this was a delicious beer, which I only had 2 of last December when passing through town.
Made a note to look up a clone recipe to brew in 2017, this thread is all I've seen concerning a recipe.
Cheers!

 

[saltymirv]

I actually am going to brew it in the next month or so. My recipe has changed a little based on what grains and hops I had on hand. The hops are totally different... really just brewing a Red Rye IPA inspired by this recipe