Keg = Good and Bottles = Bad Thoughts?

[jekeane]

So I recently started to do some small batches to increase my chances to brew. I don't have any small kegs so I have been bottling these batches. They have been pretty much terrible across the board all with differing off flavors and problems. Prior to starting to keg I feel like I wasn't thrilled with many of my bottled beers either.

My samples prior to bottling do not have the pronounced flaws that are in the beer after 3-4 weeks in the bottle.

My process for bottles is wash bottle in oxyclean after drinking beer. dry on rack and store in closed boxes. On bottling day I do a quick wash and rinse then a star san dunk letting them "dry" on a sanitized rack. Bottling equipment gets washed and star san. I have used different buckets but the same wand. I use a priming calc.

One time I ran bottles through the dishwasher on rinse and heat dry. There is a 50/50 chance that was the one decent bottled batch i have had recently, but unfortunately I'm not sure.

Every beer that I have kegged has been great and I have scored very well in judging with several of them. I hate bottling as is now it is just driving me nuts... any thoughts?

 

[Komocabo]

Brew bigger batches (lol). Seriously, I had the same results. I now only bottle when sending in for a competition (bottle from keg). I learned early that I hate bottling.

 

[kh54s10]

I don't know... But there seems to be a flaw in your processes somewhere. I did a great many beers before I started kegging. My bottled beers were all of the same quality as my kegged beers.

One thing. Is if you let the Starsan dry, (I don't know why you put dry in quotes?) it is no longer sanitary. Starsan needs to be wet in contact with the utensil/bottle to remain sanitary.

Your bottled beers should be every bit as good as kegged beers.

 

[lowtones84]

^ True.

Also, the oxyclean probably needs to be rinsed off thoroughly before letting them dry and being put away for storage. Also be careful of your racking technique, making sure to avoid anything that could cause oxidation, etc.

 

[Hoppity]

Smaller batch = greater relative surface area = higher oxygenation potential...just a thought. Are you using CO2 in bottling bucket?

 

[Siberian]

Check your racking cane... I didn't even know until I had probably done 10 batches of beer and wine that you could take the end with the spring loaded bit apart and clean it....

After 2 infected batches in bottles... I figured that out and found some black crud growing in it. :cross:

 

[jbb3]

Oxiclean is a good cleaner but it requires a lot of rinsing. And you need to rinse with very warm, almost hot water. Cold water just doesn't seem to rinse oxiclean completely.

If you rinse your bottles as soon as you finish pouring and let them drip dry upside, there should be no reason to use oxiclean between batches. After they drip dry, box them up or store them upside down. Them when your next batch is ready, give them a good rinse with water, then with starsan, then beer!

 

[ruger988]

If you use oxiclean run them through your dishwasher with all the available heat settings afterwards.

 

[kh54s10]

Oxiclean is a good cleaner but it requires a lot of rinsing. And you need to rinse with very warm, almost hot water. Cold water just doesn't seem to rinse oxiclean completely.

If you rinse your bottles as soon as you finish pouring and let them drip dry upside, there should be no reason to use oxiclean between batches. After they drip dry, box them up or store them upside down. Them when your next batch is ready, give them a good rinse with water, then with starsan, then beer!

This apparently depends on the chemistry of your water. The water in my town it very good for brewing, drinking and washing. I find it quite easy to rinse off. Don't really know about cold water. But mine rinse well in only warm water.

But, I do your procedure. I only use oxyclean on bottles when really dirty or when removing labels.

 

[jekeane]

One thing. Is if you let the Starsan dry, (I don't know why you put dry in quotes?) it is no longer sanitary. Starsan needs to be wet in contact with the utensil/bottle to remain sanitary.

the quotes were there to say that they weren't really dry just hanging out on the drying rack waiting to get filled.

I feel as if my overall technique is fine. I am leaning as a few have suggested towards the oxyclean not being fully rinsed... I do use hot water to rinse, I usually soak the bottles then shake them up and drain, rinse shake drain, rinse shake drain again.

Our water is hard and generally not great. I wonder how much water chemistry affects rinsing.

 

[madscientist451]

I think you can skip the initial oxyclean step, just rinse the bottles out.
It they have dried crud in the bottom, get rid of them. I use a bucket of star san and have the bottles submerged in there until I fill them.
I have the caps in a small container of star san as well.
How are you adding the priming sugar?
I've noticed a difference in taste between commercial kegged beer and the same beer in bottles.
I think the best answer is to get some smaller kegs, they're a little pricey, but if you'll save time and if you like the beer better, it will be worth it.

 

[gometz]

Another thought: how are you storing the bottles and what styles are they?

Kegs have the benefit that we usually keep them cold at all times, while bottles get left at room temperature to prime. For lager yeast to prime at room temperature, they can give off some off flavors over time. If the bottles are being kept too warm, then you'd expect some off flavors anyways.

An option would be to purge your keg, rack the beer into there, and then bottle from the keg.

 

[dbillingsby]

I've had some really good beer from bottles. I want to keg but havent got the equipment to keg yet. But my bottle cleaning process is pretty similar. After I drink one I rinse the bottle really well and let them dry. Then store them. A day before I am going to bottle I rinse all my bottles with oxiclean and then put them in the dishwasher. Water only though, no soap. The dishwasher doubles as a drying rack as well. I run about 10 at a time through some star San and fill.

 

[jbb3]

I've had some really good beer from bottles. I want to keg but havent got the equipment to keg yet. But my bottle cleaning process is pretty similar. After I drink one I rinse the bottle really well and let them dry. Then store them. A day before I am going to bottle I rinse all my bottles with oxiclean and then put them in the dishwasher. Water only though, no soap. The dishwasher doubles as a drying rack as well. I run about 10 at a time through some star San and fill.

I have used the dishwasher a few times in the past and the high heat is certainly a good thing for sanitation. Especially if your DW has a sanitize setting. They get squeaky clean on the outside. But the bottles need to be clean and thoroughly rinsed on the inside before going in the DW. Given the small opening of the bottles, you can't count on the DW doing much rinsing on the inside.

Vinator bottle washers are great for shooting startsan in the bottles in an assembly line fashion. Grab bottle, pump 4 or 5 squirts of startsan up into the bottle using the Vinator, let it drip out, fill with beer. And repeat.

 

[dbillingsby]

I have used the dishwasher a few times in the past and the high heat is certainly a good thing for sanitation. Especially if your DW has a sanitize setting. They get squeaky clean on the outside. But the bottles need to be clean and thoroughly rinsed on the inside before going in the DW. Given the small opening of the bottles, you can't count on the DW doing much rinsing on the inside.

Vinator bottle washers are great for shooting startsan in the bottles in an assembly line fashion. Grab bottle, pump 4 or 5 squirts of startsan up into the bottle using the Vinator, let it drip out, fill with beer. And repeat.

Yup that's what I do. I clean with oxiclean and rinse really well before they go in dishwasher. And use a vinator before I fill the bottles.

 

[dbillingsby]

I have used the dishwasher a few times in the past and the high heat is certainly a good thing for sanitation. Especially if your DW has a sanitize setting. They get squeaky clean on the outside. But the bottles need to be clean and thoroughly rinsed on the inside before going in the DW. Given the small opening of the bottles, you can't count on the DW doing much rinsing on the inside.

Vinator bottle washers are great for shooting startsan in the bottles in an assembly line fashion. Grab bottle, pump 4 or 5 squirts of startsan up into the bottle using the Vinator, let it drip out, fill with beer. And repeat.

Yup that's what I do. I clean with oxiclean and rinse really well before they go in dishwasher. And use a vinator before I fill the bottles.

 

[flars]

You may find the same problems with kegging, except all the beer will taste the same, if your cleaning procedure is not good. Kegs and lines also need to be cleaned.

 

[balrog]

Smaller batch = greater relative surface area = higher oxygenation potential...just a thought. Are you using CO2 in bottling bucket?

^This is something I worry about when doing 1G batch, especially when I cannot fill a 1G jug to the neck

Check your racking cane... I didn't even know until I had probably done 10 batches of beer and wine that you could take the end with the spring loaded bit apart and clean it...After 2 infected batches in bottles... I figured that out and found some black crud growing in it. :cross:

^And the spigot on a bottling bucket--tear that apart, it can be done, that's where the biohazards were growing in my system.

.. the oxyclean probably needs to be rinsed off thoroughly before letting them dry and being put away for storage

^this was my first reaction--if you don't rinse off that stuff you're in for some serious effort to get the film off. I would have to agree with the crowd that water rinses after emptying a beer, washing later, but definitely try to keep StarSan wet up and during filling.

 

[Ski12568]

I'm going to agree because of my experience. Once I started kegging, I was hooked and reeled in. I also didn't cold crash until I started kegging but I don't know if that would be the problem. I was afraid there wouldn't be any yeast in the bottles to carbonate. I always called it "that homebrew taste" and it was gone after I started kegging. I want to bottle again soon just to see.

 

[cjgenever]

Small batch= fast temp swings. How's your temp control?