So I have four Sanke kegs in various stages of drink. My problem, when I don't have one or two on a regular basis, the kegs seem to "overcarb", high foam on the first pull, lasting for about 16-20 oz then settling again. How do I avoid this?
Keg carbing
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@day_trippr just helped me find out my dip tube o-rings were old on my cornies?
The dip tube O-ring thing is endemic to cornelius style kegs, and the classic symptom is pretty much constant foam and even sputtering out the faucet spout. There's likely a functionally similar failure mechanism on a Sanke system, but I don't think this would fit that.
As the nature of the OP's problem is transient (goes away once enough beer is run through the faucet) it sounds more likely to be temperature related. Warm beer line and faucet that get cooled down on a foamy first pour then behave nicely on a second is a classic problem.
If the symptoms are protracted (ie: don't resolve with that second pour) there's the dispensing pressure * temperature combination not maintaining the original carbonation level. Or even the temperature control is too loose allowing the keg to warm up and outgas CO2 as a result...
Cheers!
As the nature of the OP's problem is transient (goes away once enough beer is run through the faucet) it sounds more likely to be temperature related. Warm beer line and faucet that get cooled down on a foamy first pour then behave nicely on a second is a classic problem.
If the symptoms are protracted (ie: don't resolve with that second pour) there's the dispensing pressure * temperature combination not maintaining the original carbonation level. Or even the temperature control is too loose allowing the keg to warm up and outgas CO2 as a result...
Cheers!
and balanced line length...
OP
OP
So if I understand you, on that second pour things aren’t any better, either my keezer temp is off for the carbonation or the CO2 pressure is too low versus what it is carbed at? So my temp has been a pretty constant 43-44 degrees. Pressure is varied by style. Stout around 9-10, pale ale and cream ale are 12-14. All the lines and shanks are enclosed in the keezer, so kept cold. Only the faucets are exposed. Line lengths are all 8’ if I remember correctly.
sounds short? just in case it'd help to double check....(if i remember vinyl, pvc and stuff have different resistances also...i'd imagine if they were dirty, that'd have different resistance also...)
https://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/...our-kegged-beer-co2-line-length-and-pressure/
Agreed, an 8 foot 3/16" ID line is going to be challenged by 12-14 psi to hold carbonation.
To get close to problem-free a good starting point is 1 foot of line per psi.
Also, keezers are stratification machines if you're not running a small fan inside, 24/7. That can cause beer lines coiled atop kegs to be warmer than the beer at the bottom of the kegs (from where the dip tubes draw) which can cause CO2 breakout - which can easily turn into a cascade of foam...
Cheers!
To get close to problem-free a good starting point is 1 foot of line per psi.
Also, keezers are stratification machines if you're not running a small fan inside, 24/7. That can cause beer lines coiled atop kegs to be warmer than the beer at the bottom of the kegs (from where the dip tubes draw) which can cause CO2 breakout - which can easily turn into a cascade of foam...
Cheers!
And my sanke tap uses much bigger than 3/16" line, which is going to make short lines exponentially worse.
not trying to highjack, but i have my lines coiled on the door of my fridge? i can't say i pour foam, but sometimes it's a little more than i like (a thumb), i could drill holes in the bottom and put them in the drawers under the kegs. think that would help? hell i got a ir thermomater, i'll check!
think i'm using 1/4" for my picnic taps, yep 1/4"....tight fit onto the picnic tap too....i only carb to 8 psi, and run ~12' feet of the 1/4" line....
According to Soltys' calculator, that should give you about 6.4 seconds to pour a pint. That's a little short from optimum but not too bad. The low psi is saving you.
sicktght311
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Hijacking this thread because a reply above makes me think my lines are too long? How long typically is everyone's 3/16" beer lines in their keezer?
Using 3/16" ID Accuflex Bev-Seal I'm running 15 feet from the kegs to taps in a kegerator kept at 40 F with 12 psi on a pale ale. I'm also running a tower cooler so the shank and lines stay nice and cold. The tap body itself is closer to room temp so maybe a tiny bit of foam on the first pour but it results in a good head nonetheless.
yes...you are right, which is why only 8' sounded low to me, i can't carb over 8 psi, or i get a glass of foam....(but i don't like head on my beer, i'd rather have a full glass!
)
OP
OP
So I checked, I have 12 ft lengths of Bev-Seal Ultra 3/16 line.
I've read where 3/16 line is good for about 3PSI/ft...is this bunk?
3PSI for vinyl
https://www.homebrewersassociation....ng-act-how-to-balance-your-home-draft-system/
this says 2.2 for vinyl
https://www.kegworks.com/blog/determine-right-pressure-for-your-draft-beer-system/
3 for vinyl and 2.2 for polyethelene...is this what bevlex 200 is?
http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/07/14/keg-line-length-balancing-the-science-of-draft-beer/
3PSI for vinyl
https://www.homebrewersassociation....ng-act-how-to-balance-your-home-draft-system/
this says 2.2 for vinyl
https://www.kegworks.com/blog/determine-right-pressure-for-your-draft-beer-system/
3 for vinyl and 2.2 for polyethelene...is this what bevlex 200 is?
http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/07/14/keg-line-length-balancing-the-science-of-draft-beer/
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I've got bevlex...did a bunch of googles and a few references to 2.2 PSI/FT. but could not find a manufacture's site?
Interesting that the descriptions often say "super smooth bore" or "no foam"...kinda implying that you don't need an extra long length to minimize/eliminate the foam issue?
I'm running 6ft right now. some foam (what I would consider a normal head) but I think partly because my shanks are 12ish degrees warmer that the bottom of the kegs...getting a fan to balance that out.
But even at 2.2/ft is good for 13.2 PSI reduction? That's pretty much good for most beers I would think? I'm pouring at 8 for stouts and 12 for most ales right now. maybe 15 for a hefe
Interesting that the descriptions often say "super smooth bore" or "no foam"...kinda implying that you don't need an extra long length to minimize/eliminate the foam issue?
I'm running 6ft right now. some foam (what I would consider a normal head) but I think partly because my shanks are 12ish degrees warmer that the bottom of the kegs...getting a fan to balance that out.
But even at 2.2/ft is good for 13.2 PSI reduction? That's pretty much good for most beers I would think? I'm pouring at 8 for stouts and 12 for most ales right now. maybe 15 for a hefe
Totally.
At the flow rates we typically aim for, 3/16" ID solid PVC line is actually only good for a little over 1 psi per foot...
Cheers!
OP
OP
So, if I can get back to MY problem in MY thread, any suggestions??
There've been lots of ideas/things to check provided so far, but I think your lines may be too short.
Do you have the most problems with your higher carbed beers?
Bev Seal Ultra 235 ID is actually 1/5" vs 3/16". Between that and the PET liner many folks have found they need to run closer to 18' line than 12' to handle 11-12 psi. You may need even a bit more for your 14 psi beers.
Otherwise...how about temperature stratification? Do you have a fan keeping the cabinet air stirred up?
Cheers!
Do you have the most problems with your higher carbed beers?
Bev Seal Ultra 235 ID is actually 1/5" vs 3/16". Between that and the PET liner many folks have found they need to run closer to 18' line than 12' to handle 11-12 psi. You may need even a bit more for your 14 psi beers.
Otherwise...how about temperature stratification? Do you have a fan keeping the cabinet air stirred up?
Cheers!
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Gots to have a fan.
Couple of 'em if you use the little PC case fans and old cell phone wall warts to run them.
Couple for the ferm chamber and couple for the keg holder.
and I need some for the keg holder, thanks for reminding me (says he of the coiled picnic tap hoses lying atop the kegs in the chest freezer)
Couple of 'em if you use the little PC case fans and old cell phone wall warts to run them.
Couple for the ferm chamber and couple for the keg holder.
and I need some for the keg holder, thanks for reminding me (says he of the coiled picnic tap hoses lying atop the kegs in the chest freezer)
OP
OP
Ok so I'll get a couple fans and look at longer lines. Can lines be spliced or do I need to get new lines? Also, other than cost, is there any downside to lines too long?
While lines can be spliced there's a presumption the splice can cause CO2 breakout. Replacing is usually advised.
In that regard, if you used John Guest PTC fittings on your lines you might consider replacing the lines with EVAbarrier tubing. It's selling for under $0.50/foot (morebeer.com, for instance), has excellent O2 barrier properties, and comes in both 4 and 5mm ID, with the 8mm OD equivalent to your Bev Seal 5/16" OD so you can use your existing PTC fittings. Plus you could go with the 4mm ID version (.157") and may well get away with lines as short as 5 feet in the offing.
I'm actually awaiting the EVA tubing and all the bits to convert my keezer over, hopefully this weekend...
Cheers!
In that regard, if you used John Guest PTC fittings on your lines you might consider replacing the lines with EVAbarrier tubing. It's selling for under $0.50/foot (morebeer.com, for instance), has excellent O2 barrier properties, and comes in both 4 and 5mm ID, with the 8mm OD equivalent to your Bev Seal 5/16" OD so you can use your existing PTC fittings. Plus you could go with the 4mm ID version (.157") and may well get away with lines as short as 5 feet in the offing.
I'm actually awaiting the EVA tubing and all the bits to convert my keezer over, hopefully this weekend...
Cheers!
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After cleaning up from the big blow w all the pine needles of course.
If switching to John Guest and O2 barrier lines, can I still get a picnic tap on that stuff? Or do I need some sort of gorilla friend working under boiling water situation?
Seriously, if I'm going to corner the Pine Needle market I gotta hit the property flat out tomorrow morning!
Ironically, the same forest of 80-100' pines is going to market the first week of November. Wanted them gone last week but got pushed out (&^#%@!!)
I don't know the answer yet, but I think there won't be a problem.
I received rolls of both the 4mm and 5mm EVA lines today along with a crapton of JG and Duotight fittings for beer and gas sides, respectively. I was immediately please wrt how pliable this tubing line is. It's even more flexible than the 7/16" OD Bevlex PVC lines I've always used on the beer side, and way more flexible than the same size braided Tygon I use on the gas side.
Once I get rollin' with the keezer overhaul I'll see about the picnic tap thing, but first impressions are some heat and a stretching tool should work...
Cheers!
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