Keezer issue: Compressor on, no cold

[NoNothing]

Hey guys, I bought a brand new 20.2cf Fridgidaire freezer to turn into a keezer.

I have the compressor wired to relay off an SCT-1000 and the fan on 100% of the time.

Both trigger off for 30 mins every 12 hours when the defroster comes on per the installed timer.

I was a genius and had the idea of wiring the fan to the time instead of the heater.

Why I thought it'd be smart to run the compressor without the fan and blow the fan rarely is beyond me. Im sure this is where I went wrong.

So a few days pass, things are OK in the fridge but its usually colder at the bottom than the top. I'd turn the timer manually a few times a day to get 30 mins of air circulation.

After a while I realize it's just warm in the fridge, like, 45, and the compressor had been on a lot, it was HOT.

So I decide to fix my lunacy and bypass the timer completely. Not relaying the fan yet but 100% fan and temp controlled compressor. Figured I'd just muck with the fan on compressor at a later point.

Now I notice the fridge does not cool. The evap does not get cold and the sides of the fridge do not get warm. I'm certain the compressor is on and running, I can feel it's warmth after a while of it being on and it's physically moving.

What could have gone wrong and how can I try to solve it? Or am I in a 'oh ****, you ran the compressor with no airflow on the evap and now it's all ****ed from coolant or oil or some ****'?

I'm going to call a repair guy after the holiday as this could never be covered under warranty but I'm hoping I can fix it myself if possible before then.

 

[NoNothing]

Well, I've got a tech coming out as soon as possible. Hopefully this isn't too brutal of a visit. I'm guessing a few hundred. More concerned with how it all wound up like this. :/

 

[IslandLizard]

I gather this is a stand-up freezer?

I think there's a leak somewhere in the refrigerant lines. If that's a brand new unit, it should be 100% covered under warranty. If you made any visible hacks, hmm, can you reverse or cover them up before the "repair man" stops by? Makes a better case.

Repairs on home refrigerators/freezers are usually cost prohibitive, given the price of the original or a replacement unit.

Running the freezer without a fan may freeze up the evaporator, but shouldn't kill the compressor, IMO.

Have you shut it off for like 12 hours, leaving the doors open and then restarted it?

 

[Brettomomyces]

You might have just froze up the coils, is there anyway you can get to it to take a look? So are you running the heater at all now?

 

[NoNothing]

Ive taken a look at the coils, they are not frozen at all.

If I did do damage to the lines, wouldn't there be a sudden drop in cooling when it happened?

The condenser coils are in the walls of the fridge and the evap is behind a screw attached wall. The walls do not get warm externally and the evap coils do not get cold.

When running the fridge pulls 1.3A.

As far as visible modifications go, there's holes I've drilled through the floor, no way to cover that up .

Not to mention splicing into the wiring for the STC-1000.

 

[NoNothing]

It has gotten below freezing and it is in an uninstalled garage.

Going to try bringing it inside and seeing if I can get it to cool tomorrow afternoon.

 

[jokingeye13]

If the compressor is running and its not making the evap cold you're out of refrigerant.

 

[Brettomomyces]

Yea it sounds like you're out of refrigerant. It wouldn't necessarily present as a sudden temperature drop, especially if you had a relatively small leak to begin with. More like a slow, painful climb to room temp.

 

[NoNothing]

Shiiiiiiiit. Guess I must have hit something in the walls.

Thats...very upsetting.

So, not fixable.

 

[IslandLizard]

Did you drill holes in the sides? I'm still wondering what kind this is, a chest or an upright? The chests have evaporators and condensor tubes in the sides. An modern upright usually has a traditional evaporator in the back with a fan for circulation.

 

[NoNothing]

Did you drill holes in the sides? I'm still wondering what kind this is, a chest or an upright? The chests have evaporators and condensor tubes in the sides. An modern upright usually has a traditional evaporator in the back with a fan for circulation.

I used self tapping 1/8" sheet metal screws.

The freezer is a modern upright. The condenser tubing runs through the top and sides of the freezer. It was my understanding that those tubes are a LOT closer to the outside of the 3" walls than the inside, which makes sense. I figured 1/8" was a joke.

I did however just discover the issue. Turns out it was a manufacturing defect.

After a tech came out and told me it was 100% one of the holes I made and there was no way he could fix it I got on youtube. I've soldered copper pipes before and I've done a full replacement of automative AC units. So I had a vacuum pump and manifold gauges.

I brazed on an access valve on the low side.

Got a nitrogen tank as I always wanted that for my beer anyway, hit the system with 100psi and went around with a soapy spray bottle to look for leaks. Nothing around my braze thank god. Once I got inside I could hear something. Not from any of the holes I made but from the damn thin line from the evap to the drier.

The very thin line, where it connects to the evap near that black band, that connection is leaking.

I don't think I can braze in there, too close to the walls to get enough heat to not do more harm than good.

I'm doing some research on epoxies that might fit the bill and I'm going to call Frigidaire in the hopes that if they wont do anything about this (IDK why they would after I did my work) they can at least guide me in the right direction.

JB Weld or SteelStik are my go-tos right now. I just don't want to put something up that R134a is going to destroy over time and be right back at square one, just with some JB Weld to chip off.

 

[NoNothing]

I found this thread stating that a JB Weld patch held up after 2 years.

Good enough for me. I'll clean it tonight, let it dry, sand a bit, clean it up, and patch tomorrow.

Few days I'll pull vacuum, hit with nitrogen again and see if anything leaks. Then pull another vacuum and fill with R134a.

 

[IslandLizard]

Wow! You couldn't pay a service man to do all that in this day and age. Still, manufacturing defects should be covered, no matter what you did to that freezer that didn't involve that failing area.

The trick is to get the JB weld to stick, so clean that area well, remove all grease (flux residue) and stuff. Acetone may work well. Perhaps sand it a bit with 320-600 grit paper to get a clean metal surface then pack it in with JB weld before it re-oxidizes. Remember there can't be any pressure on it while it's curing.

The perpetual temp changes and contractions may work the JB weld loose over time. Easy fix when that happens!

I need to do something like that to my fermentation fridge too. Could I use CO2 to test it?
I know I would need a vacuum pump before I can recharge it, so that's another issue.

 

[KCBrewer]

Personally, I'd feel better brazing it than using an epoxy or JB weld. Put a piece of sheet metal behind it for a heat shield, keep the torch away from the aluminum coil (they melt easy), and braze away. Should only take a few seconds of putting heat to it for a line that small.

 

[NoNothing]

Wow! You couldn't pay a service man to do all that in this day and age. Still, manufacturing defects should be covered, no matter what you did to that freezer that didn't involve that failing area.

The trick is to get the JB weld to stick, so clean that area well, remove all grease (flux residue) and stuff. Acetone may work well. Perhaps sand it a bit with 320-600 grit paper to get a clean metal surface then pack it in with JB weld before it re-oxidizes. Remember there can't be any pressure on it while it's curing.

The perpetual temp changes and contractions may work the JB weld loose over time. Easy fix when that happens!

I need to do something like that to my fermentation fridge too. Could I use CO2 to test it?
I know I would need a vacuum pump before I can recharge it, so that's another issue.

Maybe I could have gotten him to do it if I asked the right questions. I was willing to butcher the freezer to find the issue and fix it. I'm sure he was used to people wanting nice things fixed nicely. I just want to keep some beer cold. I would have cut into the walls to fix a leak and repaired with spray foam and sheet metal, haha.

I cleaned it off with some acetone then sanded with 500 grit, also discharged all the nitrogen to bring the pressure to ambient. Definitely didn't want the JB Weld being pushed away from the hole. The trick was getting the JB Weld to stick on the piping as it was vertical. I went with 2 coats to make sure it was thick enough. Waiting on the 2nd to dry tonight and I'll hit it with pressure and see how it holds overnight.

Definitely need a vacuum pump, the vacuum is what draws the refrigerant in.

I'm absolutely not an HVAC repair man, but I don't see an issue with using CO2. You'll want between 100-150 psi from what I read to find the leak. Not the 60 most of our regulators are putting out. The regulator I used also hooked right up to my manifold gauges, IDK if the taprite CO2 will, though I've not even tried .

Personally, I'd feel better brazing it than using an epoxy or JB weld. Put a piece of sheet metal behind it for a heat shield, keep the torch away from the aluminum coil (they melt easy), and braze away. Should only take a few seconds of putting heat to it for a line that small.

I completely agree a braze would have worked better and I'd never even worry about a future leak. I'm going to try JB Weld. I only need 120g of R134a for a charge, insanely small amount compared to car. I'm trying JB Weld at first for the ease. If I notice a leak I can burn the JB Weld off with only 600F and scraping.

I was also worried about getting the brazing rod in behind if it didn't flow nicely. I'd have heat and the brazing rod coming in from the same side.

 

[NoNothing]

Wow! You couldn't pay a service man to do all that in this day and age.

I had a similar issue recently with my truck. The rear passenger leaf spring hanger rusted away. Shop told me it wasn't repairable and I was SOL and might as well buy a new car. While shopping for new cars I realized I can buy bolt on hanger/shackles.

Few hours in the driveway with a torch and angle grinder and my truck is just fine.

I don't like to pay people to do things I can do myself but damn, at least do it if it's possible and I AM willing. I'm not an expert and there's plenty of things an expert is much better suited for than some ahole with a set of wrenches.

 

[IslandLizard]

I had a similar issue recently with my truck. The rear passenger leaf spring hanger rusted away. Shop told me it wasn't repairable and I was SOL and might as well buy a new car. While shopping for new cars I realized I can buy bolt on hanger/shackles.

Few hours in the driveway with a torch and angle grinder and my truck is just fine.

I don't like to pay people to do things I can do myself but damn, at least do it if it's possible and I AM willing. I'm not an expert and there's plenty of things an expert is much better suited for than some ahole with a set of wrenches.

Yeah, that reply you got has become the norm: Buy new, buy now!

Glad you could fix it in a more or less inventive way. It's kinda pays to use common sense and not to listen to closely to the droids. Being handy is certainly a valuable asset, I was raised the same way. Too many things break nowadays long before their time of service ought to be up. Our throw away society thrives on it. And prevailing labor rates don't entice to get things repaired anymore, unless you can do it yourself. I have a bit of a backlog here on repairs that need to be done...

In my van the exhaust manifold on the firewall side could not be tightened without taking the engine out, one of the bolts has snapped off. Now how could that happen, huh? Needless to say, the cost to do that exceeded the value of the car.
So I just drove around with it, as is, for years. A little noisy, but otherwise fine. Even passed the MD state inspection twice without any flags being raised, roaring noise and all. Now that would have been a big problem in some soup nazi states, such as PA (where I lived way too long).

On the fridge testing with CO2, 120 psi huh? I may try it with 60 first, maybe I'm lucky. I do have a service pigtail. These kinda diagnostics really shouldn't run more than $30-50. Back in the days I could take it to a used appliance center to test it.

 

[NoNothing]

On the fridge testing with CO2, 120 psi huh? I may try it with 60 first, maybe I'm lucky. I do have a service pigtail. These kinda diagnostics really shouldn't run more than $30-50. Back in the days I could take it to a used appliance center to test it.

60psi could work just fine, who knows. I didnt find my leak until I went over 75. Soapy water wouldn't bubble until then. At 100 I could hear it and feel the nitrogen flowing over my hand.

I also read that flushing with nitrogen helps bring more water vapor out of the system when vaccum pumping. I have no idea the science behind it.

Though you'll also find plenty of people on forums who patched with JB Weld, vacuum pumped, and filled without measuring exactly.

 

[rudylyon57]

I found this thread stating that a JB Weld patch held up after 2 years.

Good enough for me. I'll clean it tonight, let it dry, sand a bit, clean it up, and patch tomorrow.

Few days I'll pull vacuum, hit with nitrogen again and see if anything leaks. Then pull another vacuum and fill with R134a.

I just changed you handle to KnowSomething! If that JB weld does not hold up, many in the HVAC space have used Stabrite-8 as a lower temperature soldering solution to Sil Phos. Maybe it would suit you in that confined space. I recently used it to solder in a new R410 A-coil and it worked like a charm.

 

[NoNothing]

I just changed you handle to KnowSomething! If that JB weld does not hold up, many in the HVAC space have used Stabrite-8 as a lower temperature soldering solution to Sil Phos. Maybe it would suit you in that confined space. I recently used it to solder in a new R410 A-coil and it worked like a charm.

Sweet! Thank you for the tip!

I'm at about a week now of solid cooling. Though that's an insanely short time. I'd expect a failure in a few months or a year.

I had a hole in the evaporator itself too. Took an extra day to get a coat of JB Weld over that.

When I was first brazing I was so tempted to just use solder for copper pipes. I was only using MAPP gas, not oxy assisted. Took a good few minute to get up to temp. Lesson learned. Brazing is a blast though once I realized I wasn't at temp yet.

 

[Newsman]

Hmm... I've got an old mini-fridge I'd like to put back in-service. Only problem is, like your freezer, the compressor gets VERY hot, but the inside doesn't cool. Now I was gonna scrap it, but you've got me wondering... Might have to find someone to put in an access port and help me find the leak. If nothing else, it has sentimental value -- my folks got it for me in college.

 

[NoNothing]

Hmm... I've got an old mini-fridge I'd like to put back in-service. Only problem is, like your freezer, the compressor gets VERY hot, but the inside doesn't cool. Now I was gonna scrap it, but you've got me wondering... Might have to find someone to put in an access port and help me find the leak. If nothing else, it has sentimental value -- my folks got it for me in college.

I'm in Chattanooga, damn close to you. Though I'm hardly a professional and I certainly cant promise a repair would work or hold.

I'm happy to lend you tools to handle it yourself as well.

 

[Newsman]

I'm in Chattanooga, damn close to you. Though I'm hardly a professional and I certainly cant promise a repair would work or hold.

I'm happy to lend you tools to handle it yourself as well.

Cool. I know nothing about brazing. I would most certainly be happy to treat you to a nice dinner or exotic 6-pack of something (as well as your expenses) in thanks for helping me out.